Workplace romance: It’s complicated. But it happens, and employers need to know how to deal with it. In this episode of Honest HR, host Amber Clayton is joined by SHRM researcher Casey Sword to present the findings from her work on SHRM’s latest research in the area of workplace romance, share real stories related to romance in the workplace, and discuss how HR professionals should handle them.
Workplace romance: It’s complicated. But it happens, and employers need to know how to deal with it. In this episode of Honest HR, host Amber Clayton is joined by SHRM researcher Casey Sword to present the findings from her work on SHRM’s latest research in the area of workplace romance, share real stories related to romance in the workplace, and discuss how HR professionals should handle them.
Earn 1 SHRM PDC for listening to this podcast; all details provided in-episode.
Monique Akanbi:
Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for HR professionals, people managers, and team leads, intent on growing our companies for the better.
Amber Clayton:
We bring you honest forward-thinking conversations and relatable stories from the workplace that challenge the way it's always been done. Because after all, you have to push back to move forward.
Wendy Fong:
Honest HR is a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. And by listening, you're helping create better workplaces and a better world. I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton. And
Monique Akanbi:
And I'm Monique Akanbi.
Group:
Now let's get honest.
Amber Clayton:
Hello everyone and welcome back. I'm your host, Amber Clayton, senior director of SHRM's Knowledge Center Operations. In our episode, we're going to discuss the technical competency, HR expertise, employee and labor relations. This podcast is approved to provide one PDC towards SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification if you listen to the full episode. Today we are going to share SHRM's latest research on workplace romance, as well as discuss some stories from my team and others related to romance and relationships in the workplace, and how HR professionals should handle them. I'm pleased to be joined today by my colleague from our research team, Casey Sword. Welcome to the show, Casey.
Casey Sword:
Thanks so much, Amber. I'm really excited to be here and to share some of our latest insights.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. Well, I am very excited with that as well. So, Casey, you haven't seen this question, but before we get started, I would like you to tell our audience a little bit about yourself and fill in the blank here. If I wasn't working as a researcher, I would be? And that's after telling us a little bit about yourself.
Casey Sword:
Oh, goodness.
Amber Clayton:
I know. Sorry to put you on the spot like that.
Casey Sword:
Oh, it's fine. I can handle it. So as Amber mentioned before, my name is Casey. I am a senior specialist on the research team. I've been here at SHRM for four years now, and I have conducted research on a variety of different workplace topics. I've had the pleasure of leading our research on workplace romance for the past three years, and this topic is highly anticipated every year ahead of Valentine's Day. So I'm really excited to dive into this discussion with you. If I weren't a researcher, at this point I feel like I could be a workplace romance columnist.
Amber Clayton:
That's awesome.
Casey Sword:
I think that would be really fun. I am going to go with a Broadway star though.
Amber Clayton:
Really?
Casey Sword:
Yes, I loved musical theater growing up. I still love it. Actually, last night I went to Tick, Tick... Boom! at the Kennedy Center.
Amber Clayton:
Oh wow.
Casey Sword:
I'm a huge musical theater fan.
Amber Clayton:
I did not know that about you, and I know we've been working together for a while, so that's really interesting. And maybe offline, I'm going to have to tap into that and see what you could do.
Casey Sword:
I'm so dramatic, Amber, I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, no, me too. For anybody who knows me, they know I'm dramatic too. Well, I have to say that I actually, I love this topic, no pun intended. No matter the company size or location, the employee demographics, relationships, they're just formed at work. Some are friendships, others become more, and that's to be expected given that most of our days are spent with one another at work. And in the Knowledge Center, we do get over 50,000 questions a year. Many of them, of course, are related to things like compensation and employee relations and leave. As part of the member benefit, members can call us, they ask us these questions and we provide guidance and resources.
And we hear all types of stories when it comes to relationships in the workplaces. Some of them are asking about should we implement policies on romantic relationships? Can we require employees to tell us about the relationships? Can we transfer people who are dating to different departments, and how do we handle situations where there might be favoritism or harassment? And so I think it's good that we actually do this kind of research and it's very telling. So I know that we're going to go into the details of some of the research, but at a high level, why do you think that this type of research is so important?
Casey Sword:
Well, for me, this research has served a few purposes throughout the years, Amber. First, I think it's important to echo what you just said, and that's that we're spending so much time at work, whether we're online or in person or perhaps a bit of both. So workplace romances are inevitable. Employers, even if they don't want them, they just have to deal with it almost in many ways. So on one hand, we're here to share some fun and lighthearted research. The flirting, work crushes, matching with a coworker on dating apps, things like this. And on the other hand, the research goes beyond the entertainment factor. It provides valuable insights that can help employers better understand what's going on with their workforce.
So by shed light on this topic, employers can recognize the pros, the good and the bad, the potential risks, like you said, favoritism, retaliation, harassment, rumors and gossip so they can be better prepared to navigate these to foster a healthy workplace dynamic. At the end of the day, we found that the majority of workers, 64% don't think that employers should have policies prohibiting workplace romances, but in fact, more than three quarters think that organizations should provide guidelines. So some of these stories that we share today will be really interesting and can maybe help HR folks and organizations who may be experiencing similar situations.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. And we actually had a clue that was on Jeopardy not too long ago around this topic. Could you tell us how did that happen?
Casey Sword:
How did that happen? That's a really good question. I actually-
Amber Clayton:
Or maybe what it is first, if you remember it. It was not too long ago.
Casey Sword:
It wasn't too long ago. It was, I believe the stat was, or the percentage of workers who are happen in a workplace romance. And so I actually didn't watch that episode and my inbox just got flooded by all of my friends, both at SHRM and outside of SHRM because this gets so much media attention, this research every year, people really want to know what, like I said, what's going on with employees. I think we all know someone who's been in a workplace romance or who is now, whether that's a secret or whether it's out in the open, whether it's casual, informal, whether it's an official relationship, it's something everyone has some experience with or relates to or has seen firsthand. So it was really exciting to see that pop up on Jeopardy and that I had a small part to play in that meant a lot.
Amber Clayton:
No, that is actually awesome. I did not watch it myself, but the same as you, I heard about it and I was like, Oh, how cool is that, that she's on jeopardy? So I love that our research made it on the show, and hopefully we could see more of that in the future. We've got some-
Casey Sword:
I hope so too.
Amber Clayton:
... great data, not just on this topic, but many others as well. So before we jump into some of the stories that I had received from my colleagues, I want to ask you, what's your experience been with relationships? Have you had or know of people who have had relationships in the workplace and how's that worked out?
Casey Sword:
So the funny thing is, is that I've never been in a workplace romance. I've certainly had a crush at work. I've been asked on a date. I've never asked anyone out on a date at work actually. But I have experienced that, but I've never been in what I would call a workplace romance before. That being said, my parents actually started a small business together when I was younger. So I grew up in an environment where my parents would come home from work, and that blur between work and personal life was very apparent. That's something, when I asked my parents about their experience, they shared it's really hard to not have those boundaries. So it's important to create them in some situations if you need that. So yeah, I have firsthand experience witnessing what a workplace romance entails, but I have not personally been in one.
Amber Clayton:
Well, I'm actually curious, you said you were asked out, how did you reply to that? Because I know there's those situations where someone gets asked out by someone else, and I believe we even have a story that talks about that. But what was your approach?
Casey Sword:
Well, first I get really nervous because I don't, sometimes I see it coming and sometimes I don't. My goal is to be as honest with the person as possible about my intentions when that happens in that I really, I still want to be your friend, you mean a lot to me, or if you don't, then I just want to be your friend. I want to keep this professional. And that's how I typically approach it. It hasn't happened in a little while. But yeah, I try to keep it honest, as lighthearted as I possibly can. I don't want it to be too serious when it happens. And just, it's hard to go to work when tensions are high with someone. And so any kind of conflict I can avoid while making myself clear and establishing that boundary is really important to me.
Amber Clayton:
I love it. That absolutely makes sense. That's what happens sometimes people, they like someone at work, they ask them out, the person says no, sometimes they back off, but sometimes they don't. And then that's when we start to hear more about harassment claims.
Casey Sword:
And that's why it's so important for organizations to at least have some guidelines about how to handle that, employees feeling comfortable with communicating their boundaries and things like that.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely, and I like you, I have had crushes on people that I've worked with. It's hard not to, I did not pursue it or anything, the person actually had a significant other, and I would never do anything like that. But certainly this was somebody that I liked and I thought, wow, this person is just so cool. And I could definitely see something if there wasn't already a relationship there. But yeah, I never pursued it. He never found out and still does not know to this day. But I have had a relationship with someone that I worked with once. And-
Casey Sword:
I was going to ask you, Amber, tell me about it.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, it was one of those things where we worked together, we got along really well, and things just progressed. A friendship progressed into more and we started seeing each other outside of work. And to be candid with you, we didn't disclose it. I just wasn't even sure where it was going and if it was worth even disclosing, and it didn't go anywhere. I still continue to work with the person. It was awkward and weird and we had different relationships and things like that. And would I do it again? No, that's just me. I wouldn't do it again. But I know the research says otherwise. I think you had a data point that talked about that.
Casey Sword:
I do actually. And you say you wouldn't do it again, but I want to know quickly, do you regret it?
Amber Clayton:
I personally do. I do regret it. It was many, many years ago, and it was just something that I don't think it should have happened. But then again, I always believe too, that things happen for a reason. And maybe there's some reason that I still haven't figured out as to why that person came in my life, but they're not there and it's all good. We moved on.
Casey Sword:
I remember reading we had, so let me quickly share the stats to support this conversation. So we found that nearly three quarters of those who have previously been in a workplace romance said that it was worth it. And so part of that group, nearly half of that group specifically said that it was worth it and they would do it again, and then over a quarter said that it was worth it, but they would not do it again. And then, of course, the other 26% said that it was not worth it. So it's really interesting.
I think we tend to see when we're reading books and when we're watching TV that shows how dramatic workplace romance can be or how dramatic the breakups are. We just assume that people have mostly really negative experiences with it. And seeing that nearly three quarters, 74% of those who have been in a workplace romance don't regret it, whether or not it was a good or positive or a negative experience for them. They either got married, had kids, or they had a miserable experience, but they learned so much about themselves that they don't have that regret. So it's really interesting to see that.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. This is just what happens sometimes in the workplace. So let's go ahead and get into some of the stories. I'm going to just read some of the stories that were provided to me, and if you have any data points on it, please share. These are interesting stories. I don't know that we'll be able to get to all of them today, but certainly we could talk about them briefly and what actions an HR professional might take in this particular situations. So this first one, there was an owner of a company, and I'm going to speak as if the person is here telling the story. Owner of a company contacted me, their HR outsourced person, HR person, on a Friday afternoon to ask me about the risk of dating one of his employees. Now, this is the owner of the company now, I just want to repeat this, the risk of dating one of his employees.
I explained that there were a lot of risk. If it goes well, then there's a concern that other employees may view that person as getting favoritism, and that can cause morale issues. If it doesn't go well, then you have the risk that any action taken against that employee in the future could be seen as retaliation. I usually head straight to their location on Monday mornings. And as I was en route, I got a call from my office that my meeting had been canceled, and I turned around. The owner asked to have a different HR contact and stated it was because I had not met their agreed upon deadlines. I had emails showing that I notified them that we could not meet the deadlines if they didn't provide all the data needed to complete their analysis. We parted ways with that company. Two years later, they went out of business, not saying it's related, but karma.
So it's very coincidental that the Friday afternoon when the owner asked about dating his employee and then not getting the answer that he probably wanted to hear, and then the next thing you know on Monday, the contractor consulting or she was replaced, seems pretty sus to me. Sus. Is that the word
Casey Sword:
Sus, yes.
Amber Clayton:
Sus to me. So what do you think about that scenario?
Casey Sword:
Well, I think that's very, talk about going to HR as a business owner and not heeding advice. And I guess those are the consequences of your actions. When we look at dating in the workplace, it is most common when we break down who's dating who, that those who are currently in a relationship at work are dating their peers, then it's followed by they're dating their superiors. And then we have 10% of this group who admit to dating their subordinates. So I know that in this story, HR, the HR contact wasn't the owner's love interest probably, but it still highlights-
Amber Clayton:
No, doesn't sound like it.
Casey Sword:
It doesn't sound like it, but it highlights an alarming trend of concerning power dynamics at play and which we know oftentimes can negatively impact subordinates. And so, one stat I found was that workers who have previously dated their superiors were significantly more likely to say that they left a job that they otherwise liked due to their romance ending than those who dated their peers or subordinates. And so we see that impact. And when we also just gauge workers' attitudes and perspectives about what's appropriate, what's acceptable in the workplace. As you might predict, they're far more likely to say that romances are acceptable between workers of the same level, more so if they rarely or never work together, but also if they do work together and much fewer believe that romances are acceptable between workers at different levels, especially those who often work together. So if organizations are looking to provide guidance, it's especially crucial in scenarios like this. Even as I said, if the owner or the employee doesn't heed that advice, at least you're putting a framework in place to foster a culture of accountability or responsibility and set the tone.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely. I think HR professionals, especially those who work for small and mid-size organizations where they have an owner of the organization, they don't have a board of directors or anything, they get caught between a rock and a hard place. And I think in this particular situation, the outsourced HR person did the right thing by advising the owner. Well, first off, I'm glad that owner actually reached out and asked the question before just going into it.
Casey Sword:
We have to give them that.
Amber Clayton:
I have to give them credit for that. But providing that owner, the risk of it, I think is the right thing to do because obviously the owner was concerned they've got the risk. Now, unfortunately, again, and I'm making an assumption here, that the action was taken as a result just because of the timing of it. It could very well have been what the HR person said about not meeting the agreed upon deadlines. Seems kind of sus, but I think they did the right thing. And that's not just with workplace romance, but with other topics as well, like harassment. It's really difficult sometimes for the HR professional to be able to approach the CEO or their owner of the company with these allegations or with the information about the risk of doing certain things because there's that possibility that they might be retaliated against. They might be let go, or they might be treated differently after doing that.
In those types of situations, sometimes I say maybe it's time to move on. If this is an organization where the owner, the CEO is not going to appreciate the advice that's being given, or is putting people at risk or the job, the company at risk, how much can you do to make them change? Sometimes you can, and I've worked for owners like that before. We actually had one company that I worked for where there was a situation where the general manager actually formed a relationship with the marketing director who worked under him, and they ended up getting married. They got together, they were seeing each other, they got married. But the good news is, well, maybe not good news for their couple because unfortunately, the marketing director, one of them did have to leave the organization because they couldn't be in that position of having a relationship, being the general manager and the marketing director. But it worked out and they got married and they had kids and everybody's happy, and it's awesome. It doesn't always work out that way.
Casey Sword:
No, it doesn't. And that again is, I think that's part of the sacrifice you're willing to make in a situation where you can see it working out. When I think a lot of people, when I did ask about why it was worth it, they did have to make those sacrifices, but like you said, they got married, they had kids, and so it was much bigger than a job to them, it was more important than maintaining their job and they could be moved within the organization into a different department, or in some cases they had to leave their organization entirely. But those options sometimes are available to just transfer to another team, but in many cases, no.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, or another location. Sometimes I've seen that before where companies have allowed someone to work at a different location than the one of their spouse. Is there any data on that that we have in our new research that talks about the transferring of people who may have had relationships?
Casey Sword:
I'm looking now, we don't have any data on transfers, but I have here that of workers who used to be in a workplace romance, 62% of this group continued to work with their ex when their relationship ended. One in 10 had to leave a job that they otherwise liked. I don't have anything about-
Amber Clayton:
Okay, all right. Well, you know what? Maybe the next year we can ask that particular question.
Casey Sword:
I'm going to add it.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. Well, Casey, I'm going to have you read the next story, which it's actually really not necessarily a story, but really it's really just a sentence that someone provided me.
Casey Sword:
Should I read both of those?
Amber Clayton:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know what? Read both. Yep, absolutely.
Casey Sword:
Because when I read the second one, I was baffled, so I feel like everyone should hear it.
Amber Clayton:
Awesome.
Casey Sword:
Okay. This is a little crazy. Are you ready?
Amber Clayton:
Let's do it.
Casey Sword:
Okay. Two employees at a hotel were dating and one of the cleaning staff walked in on them having relations in one of the hotel rooms. Yikes. That's the first bit. The second, I'm assuming from a different person. Oh, it's all from the same person. Okay.
Amber Clayton:
No, it was from me.
Casey Sword:
Oh.
Amber Clayton:
I actually, I had to plug that in there because when I heard that story about the two employees at the hotel that were dating and they were having relations, it triggered a situation that actually happened in one of my companies where we had a married couple who they were married to other people outside of work, not together, and no one walked on them necessarily, but there was video footage of where they got together to have relations in a vacant office that was under of Novation, and there was a video there because it was an open space, they didn't want things to be stolen. And so it was there more for safety and security reasons. Really no one should have been in there other than the construction people who with their hard hats because it was a safety issue. But yeah, they were caught in that area. Now, I was not the HR person overseeing them at the time, but my understanding was that nothing happened. Nothing happened. It was business as usual, and I was really surprised by that. But of course, rumors were just flying all over the place.
Was that the story that you were-
Casey Sword:
Yeah, nothing happened. I'm really surprised by that. I think that if there were any policy in place, that would be one of them that organizations would implement
Amber Clayton:
A 100%. There were violations of being in that area because again, that was an unauthorized area, but only for construction workers. There's the fact that this is taking place at the workplace and that it can be very difficult knowing that your colleagues are doing something that who knows if they know the other person's spouse, their significant other. There's just a lot of different things that come along with that. But am I saying that the people should have been terminated? I think it's all based on the case and the specifics of the case and everything, but I do feel that there were some definite violations of policy in my mind, and I wonder if it's because these individuals were at a higher level, if that's the reason why they weren't kept.
Casey Sword:
Well, I know they're not the only ones because for the first time ever, we actually asked about risky encounters or risque encounters in the office, or I shouldn't say in the office, but at work. And so believe it or not, 13% of workers, I would say confessed because that is-
Amber Clayton:
Pretty much what it is. It's a confession.
Casey Sword:
It is. But they had a risky encounter at their workplace in the past year.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, wow. You said 13%?
Casey Sword:
13%.
Amber Clayton:
That may seem low, but to have an encounter at work, that's-
Casey Sword:
In the past year, which is even more, when you think about it, we didn't ask, have you ever done it? It's just in the past year, 13% said this. And this isn't people who are only in a relationship, people have a lot of different interpretations of what a workplace romance is, so they could not be in a relationship, for example, and have said that. And some of the written responses, again, made me laugh out loud because some things were quite explicit and I can't share them here.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, is that in the qualitative part of the research?
Casey Sword:
Yes, exactly. When I was analyzing the open ends about why their relationship was worth it, a lot of people got to have a lot of fun in the office with or at the workplace with their interest.
Amber Clayton:
I can't even imagine. When I was in school, I was afraid to skip because I was going to get caught, and I'm the type of person that that would happen to me if I would get caught doing something. So I was always trying to be the good girl and not do anything wrong. I just cannot imagine doing anything at the workplace unless the workplace is my home. Then obviously, obviously that's the case with many people working remotely now, but even still, I can't even think about that.
Casey Sword:
We ask about intention too, behind why you decided to get into a workplace romance and people's intentions are generally pretty pure, I would say a lot of people are interested in it for love, for a committed relationship, but we have a lot of people about, yeah, a third in each category this year that said, I'm interested in, or I was interested for love related reasons. You have job motivations or job related motivations like career advancement, things like that. And you also have the self-interested motivations, the lust, the excitement of it. And so I think perhaps people can get lost in that and do very unpredictable, crazy things and some get away with it.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. Yeah. Well, and I've been working in HR for over 20 years, and I have more stories that I could tell, but I'm not going to share all of my stories today. So let's get to the next one that someone else shared with us. A female dispatcher for a trucking company said she would joke and innocently flirt with all the truck drivers. One driver took this as interest in a relationship and continued to ask her out. She didn't want to hurt his feelings, so tried to brush it off instead of saying that she was not interested at all in a relationship. He would try to show up early for work to see her if he was coming into that location, and at a work party they had a mime show, he was sitting at a different table in the back, but as soon as someone next to her got up from the table, he claimed the seat. His reasoning was that he couldn't hear as well in the back of the room, which is funny because it's a mime show and you're not going to be able to hear anything anyways.
Do we think that's really the reason? Doesn't sound like it to me. So this goes back to what we talked about earlier about being asked out, and she didn't say that she wasn't interested in a relationship, so she didn't have that honest conversation like you had with the person who asked you out Casey. But again, he continued to ask her out and should she have said, no, I'm not interested and he continued to ask, she could have potentially gone and made a complaint of harassment to her manager or to HR.
Casey Sword:
A lot of people flirt at work, and I have here that nearly half of workers have flirted with someone from their workplace in the past year. This is when it goes too far and it can lead to harassment. She said that she would joke and innocently flirt with all of the truck drivers, which to me is, it's fine. It's just when that goes too far and when you can't communicate your intentions and your boundaries like we talked about earlier, and then it can lead to harassment. And at this point I would say it sounds like she's uncomfortable and still unable to express her needs and-
Amber Clayton:
Well, I think for me, if I was aware that I, and flirt and I had this reaction from someone that I wasn't interested in, I'd probably be less inclined to do that. And I'm not saying here that she deserved someone continually asking her out or anything to that effect, but I'm just saying for myself, I probably would think twice before flirting with people that I wouldn't want them to get the wrong impression. And that's just-
Casey Sword:
That's fair.
Amber Clayton:
... that's just me. That's just me. I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone else. I'm not accusing anybody of doing anything. I'm just-
Casey Sword:
No, I know.
Amber Clayton:
... that would be something that I personally would do. And this is interesting because this is why many employers do want to put policies in place because there's that risk of sexual harassment claims and employers can lose a lot of money in legal costs as a result of sexual harassment cases that are not handled properly. And we see the Equal Employment Opportunity Commissions sends out notifications of various court cases where employers have lost millions of dollars in harassment claims, sexual harassment claims because things weren't investigated or they weren't handled properly. So many employers do try to put some type of policies and practices in place as they should with respect to personal relationships in the workplace. And some of them even have consensual relationship agreements so that someone won't come back later and say, no, I never consented to that relationship. But they understand that there is a sexual harassment policy, there are certain expectations of them in the workplace and that they went into this relationship consensually. So it's really interesting. Was there any data that we had around contracts or relationship policies, anything of that nature?
Casey Sword:
We only have research about disclosure from the worker experience specifically.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah. And that's usually part of the policy is the disclosure piece of it. Many employers say, if you are going to get in a relationship or you're in a relationship, you need to disclose it to your managers or to HR so that they know what actions, if anything, need to be taken like in that situation with the owner and the employee where you might, or the GM and the marketing director that I mentioned where you might have to separate those individuals, transfer them to different departments to work so that there's no favoritism issues, retaliation issues, things of that nature.
Casey Sword:
I do have a stat here that shows that 30% of workers who are currently in a workplace romance or who happen in one before reached out to HR to ensure their relationship didn't violate any company policies.
Amber Clayton:
That's great.
Casey Sword:
So I look at that, and I think we also have a pretty high percentage of workers who are in a relationship now that said they did disclose their relationship to their organization to HR. And so I think that many employees are trying to do the right thing by their HR, their organization, and just make sure you don't want to live in discomfort knowing that, you want to know what you're doing. Well, many people want to know that their relationship is acceptable, it's appropriate for the workplace. They are in those relationships. And so yeah, many have decided to make that known to their employer.
Amber Clayton:
What about the person who didn't disclose it? Do we have that? I'm asking for myself because I told you many, many years ago, I did not disclose it. I was struggling with when, when do I disclose it? And sometimes that is part of a policy. Honestly, it's been so long ago, I do not remember if we had a policy at the organization. I wasn't in this HR role, an HR role. So I think I was just young and naive at the time, but I was like, what if it doesn't work out? What if it doesn't progress? And I just was uncertain whether or not I should say anything.
Casey Sword:
Well, I think it's the same about just going from casual to formal. It's like, when does that happen? When do you need to? Because especially nowadays, people just are in relationships. I literally have friends who are in relationships who they don't even know when it became official. It's just, Oh, we're official. And so reporting or disclosing to an employer before you're ready or before you even know what is going on might be a little extra for many people.
Amber Clayton:
Premature, I guess.
Casey Sword:
Little premature.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah. I'm just thinking about going out on a date. I'm like, do I tell the employer that I'm going out on a date? And that's the type of thing that I think there's no laws. There's no laws that says you have to do this or you have to do that. This is typically a matter of employer policy and practice. And, of course, ethics as well. And so I think the more clarification you can give to your employees around the expectations, the more they'll understand at what point should we say that we are in a relationship or we're romantic or it could potentially affect what I'm doing at work.
Casey Sword:
And I would say people are split like we seem to be about it. 51% have disclosed their relationship, and that means 49% have not, have chosen not to for probably a myriad of reasons that make sense to them. And I think in many cases last year I had a reporter interview me about this research, and I think she desperately wanted me to say that organizations should have a policy in place regarding workplace romances. And I-
Amber Clayton:
Was it to-
Casey Sword:
... not say that.
Amber Clayton:
But was it to prohibit it or was it just to-
Casey Sword:
To prohibit them.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, see that's... Yeah.
Casey Sword:
Yeah. Or, for me, it's up to an organization, their discretion. I think the goal is to protect the organization to protect employees as well. And so there are a lot of considerations and blanket statements like that I don't think are necessarily the best to advocate for.
Amber Clayton:
I think sometimes it's unrealistic. Just again-
Casey Sword:
It's unrealistic.
Amber Clayton:
... Yeah. Based on what we talked about. You work with people, things happen. You fall in love and you want to pursue something. And I think even for those companies that do have policies that might prohibit it doesn't mean it's not actually happening. They just might not know about it. So I think I'd rather be transparent and tell employees what's expected and feel like they can come and they can tell us so that we're aware, so that we can make sure that there's things that are not going to negatively impact them, others, or as we say, the work workers in the workplace. Yes.
Casey Sword:
And one last thing though is that if you choose not to disclose a new part of the research this year, we found that while many do choose to disclose their workplace romance, others indicate that they were outed by someone else at work. So the rumor mill, we found 22% of workers who are in a workplace right now, or workplace romance right now, or who have been in one before, say that their relationship was reported by someone else at work. So if you don't get to it and the rumors are spreading, someone else might. So that's an important consideration too. Is it better to come from you or is it better for it to come from someone else? You tell me.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. And that's interesting. Was there any data on why they outed the individuals? Was it because they felt like there was favoritism happening or that somebody was just treated differently?
Casey Sword:
I'm sure that's a piece of it, but at the end of the day, when we were asking whether or not organizations required employees to disclose, we also asked whether organizations require employees to disclose if they learn of a workplace romance. So it would probably be, if I saw my department head dating someone within my department at a lower level, then I would be required to report that to HR. And that was about 20% as well. So the percentages pretty much match in that regard. Those who do say there's a policy in place are probably the ones who have reported it.
Amber Clayton:
Wow. Wow.
Casey Sword:
Possibly not, but...
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, that is so... I'm trying to think, have I ever had that situation where I've reported a relationship? I don't think I have, and it's probably because of my own personal experience, but I don't think I've been in that position where I've had to disclose that somebody else had a relationship. Yeah, I'm glad that I haven't been in that position, but I'm sure that there are many listeners out there that have been in it, and it could be uncomfortable, and you don't want to feel like a snitch. But then at the same time, you're following company policies and practices and you know that what you're supposed to do if that's the expectation of your policies and what you do for your organization. So really interesting. Well, Casey, let's get back into another story here. I know we've got a few more that we want to talk about. What's the next one that we have?
Casey Sword:
There is one I liked, which is a little bit more of a positive note about the impact of workplace romance. And so I will just read that now. So at a consulting firm where I worked two different departments were working together on a project. The two leads were in constant contention and became enemies. HR, that's me, got involved and mediated. They found by talking it out that they had a lot in common and were resisting a mutual attraction causing friction. They ended up getting married.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, wow.
Casey Sword:
And so for me, this is straight out of a rom-com.
Amber Clayton:
Yes, it is. There were enemies. They were probably fighting, and then it was like they really just liked each other and-
Casey Sword:
Just admit You love each other.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. Oh, wow.
Casey Sword:
I enjoyed reading that story. And we asked this for the first time too. We wanted to know how workplace romance impacts people's professional and personal lives. And so they might be seeing it through rose colored glasses. But we found the majority of workers who are in a workplace romance right now, and by the majority, I mean 80% or more, say that their relationship has had an extremely positive or positive impact on their overall mood at work, their motivation at work, their sense of belonging at work, commitment to their organization and work-life balance. And then 79%, so almost 80%, four in five, say their workplace romance has positively impacted their personal lives. And so I have a few quotes from the research from our open ends, and one was-
Amber Clayton:
Let's hear it.
Casey Sword:
I feel like I always have an ally at work. I'm with my best friend at work and outside of work, so I'm always at my best. And then another one here is, as we collaborated on various projects, our communication and teamwork skills improved, allowing us to understand each other's strengths and perspectives better has strengthened our bond outside of work as we developed a deeper sense of trust, empathy, and support for each other's endeavors, fostering a more harmonious and enriched personal relationship. So those are just the pros of a workplace romance. If I'm excited to go to work and I'm motivated at work, then how can it be bad until it gets bad? But that's one.
Amber Clayton:
And I can just say, thinking back on the relationship that I mentioned, for me, I was actually more stressed about it, and I think that was because-
Casey Sword:
Well, you were hiding it, Amber.
Amber Clayton:
I know. I didn't want anybody to know. I didn't want anyone to judge. I was just so concerned that it stressed me out. And I think that's why it really didn't work, because I was just not comfortable with that. I've never done that before, and it was all new to me. And yeah, I didn't get that warm and fuzzy feeling that those survey participants received. And again, no intention to do that going forward. I'm trying to meet people outside of the workplace.
Casey Sword:
That's fair. That's fair.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. But looking back in the past, yeah, that one was a little bit more stress for me. But like I said, I was the person that didn't skip school because I was afraid I'd get caught. So everything was like, Oh, I don't want to get in trouble. So yeah, that was my experience. Very interesting. So let's see here. We've got one, and since we're actually coming up on Valentine's Day, we're close to, if not on Valentine's Day soon, I have received Valentine's Day gifts from employees over the years. This is not me, by the way. This is one of our stories that came in. I have received Valentine's Day gifts from employees over the years, such as stuffed animals, candy cards, et cetera. I have never accepted them due to the action being inappropriate to me, but it seems like a good topic and question to ask, should HR accept Valentine's Day gifts from employees?
Casey Sword:
Amber, I'm going to have to let you take this one because I actually don't have any data on this, but for me, I'm like intention's everything. I love receiving gifts with the intention. I would love a Valentine from someone on my team. I would love to give a Valentine to you, for example. It's just about intention. And so I'm really interested in what you think.
Amber Clayton:
I would agree. I tell my team I love them all the time, but not in the way that some might take it, but I would give them Valentine's Day candies. I would give them flowers. I think you're right. I think it's intention. If someone delivered a dozen red roses to me from my department, I'd be a little concerned and probably would not accept the gift because I'd be concerned that this is something that's more than just a friendly gift on a holiday. If it was a little tiny card and some chocolates or something, I might feel differently. So I agree with you. I don't think it's necessary to not accept gifts from everybody. But then again, there could be company policies on accepting gifts, and employees need to take a look at that because there are some employers that say, no, you cannot accept gifts from, a lot of times it's outside the organization because you obviously don't want to accept gifts from somebody who's going to want something in return, but there may be a gift giving or receiving policy. So you want to make sure that you don't violate that as well.
But yeah, I'm all about, I like giving small gifts and gestures just to show people that I care and-
Casey Sword:
Spreading the love.
Amber Clayton:
Spreading the love. Exactly. In a professional-
Casey Sword:
In a professional.
Amber Clayton:
... a professional way. In a professional way. So let's see here. Let's see if we've got another good one here that we can talk about. Oh, this is a good one here. On their way to a conference, coworkers were stuck on the same flight. They shared a cab, they were staying in the same hotel. The conference was over, they became friends, then more than friends. They informed HR and HR told them, one of you must resign. All right, I'm glad this one didn't say they were staying in the same hotel room. But that's interesting. It sounds like it was something that evolved. Unless I'm reading this wrong, and this all happened all at one time during or after their conference.
Casey Sword:
I'm also curious as to what kind of coworkers they were. Did they work on the same team? Did they work closely together? Because our research really, it shows that more than half of HR are supportive when they learn of a workplace romance. I mean 54%. So you're still looking at a large percentage that aren't as supportive or slightly supportive of it. And so, yeah, I would just be curious and learning more about what this relationship entailed and how it would impact the organization, because it sounds like there's more to it than...
Amber Clayton:
Oh, there has to be. If they're saying that one of you must resign, then it sounds like it might be a situation where there is an obvious conflict of interest. Maybe it would impact their jobs. Maybe they're a small organization. Yeah, there's got to be, like you said, more information on that. But can you imagine though, if you're in that position, and let's say you did fall in love with somebody that you worked with and they said, Nope, one of you has got to resign. And again, that's what happened with the situation that I mentioned in one of my previous companies. And you just don't choose.
I guess if you feel very strongly about the person and you want to pursue that relationship, you might not have a choice but to resign, but hopefully that relationship is sustained after you resign. It's terrible to say that, but it's tough. It's tough. And I'm a single mom, and I would be hesitant to even resign. I might have to say, you know what? I can't be in the relationship. I'm sorry, but my work is important. I need to take care of my daughter. And especially if I thought that maybe it might not be long-term, but that's a tough spot to be in. It really is.
Casey Sword:
Such a tough spot. I can't imagine having to make that decision and then work with that person, continue to work with that person after you had, if you decided not to leave the organization.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, I would hope there would be some other option in that if relationships are permitted within the organization, that there could be some kind of alternative, like we talked about, different location, different department, maybe different job, who knows? But yeah, that's a tough one. I would actually struggle with that decision. I'm glad it did work out for the GM and marketing director that I mentioned, but I'm sure that there are others that have been in that spot that it hasn't worked out. So what else? Casey, do you want to grab another one here? Do we have time for more?
Casey Sword:
Sure. We can do the last story here if you want.
Amber Clayton:
Okay, let's do it.
Casey Sword:
Okay. A friend of mine in HR sponsored a chess competition for administrative versus warehouse employees. Long story short, the controller was in the finals against a parts supervisor. They both had help from assistance. The controller noticed something different about the collaboration of the parts supervisor and his assistant. The controller had them investigated for violating company policy regarding dating. The controller lost the chess competition, and the parts supervisor explained that the controller was just mad she lost, and the case went away. The part supervisor fathered his assistant's child that next year. Boy, was his wife upset. This is crazy to me.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, goodness. Wow.
Casey Sword:
And I will say that the subject of cheating is not something we really add to the survey, but I saw it a lot in my written responses.
Amber Clayton:
Really?
Casey Sword:
And I have a few quotes for you about.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, let's do it. I love it. Let's hear them.
Casey Sword:
It's sad. But in terms of why people regret their romance, their workplace romance, looking back, a lot of cheating appeared in the open ends and this strange dynamic with someone you're close with at work and things like that. So these are verbatim. "It broke up my marriage and the guy cheated on me."
Amber Clayton:
Oh, wow.
Casey Sword:
And then the other one is, "Because it destroyed my relationship with my significant other, made people really upset with us at work as it was against the policies. And I wasn't practicing what I was preaching or what I believed was right." So it's happening.
Amber Clayton:
I've actually worked for a company where someone within the organization, there were two individuals who were having an affair, and one of them had their spouse who actually worked at the same company. And so it was the, what do you call the 800 pound gorilla in the room or the white elephant in the room, whatever you want to call it. And people knew that this affair was going on and it was so uncomfortable, and it was just a very awkward situation. I don't know how this happened, but the spouse found out about it, ended up leaving the organization, the employees got married. So it was pretty crazy. And the individual was high up in the organization and still maintained employment and everything, but it was just really awkward and weird because so many people knew that there was something going on-
Casey Sword:
That's Grey's Anatomy level craziness right there.
Amber Clayton:
Well, I didn't watch Grey's Anatomy, but I'm sure it definitely was extremely, extremely uncomfortable. And there was no investigation or anything, but I think people just knew that there was something there, a look, a reaction, an arm touch, things like that. And yeah, it finally got out. And that person, unfortunately, that marriage was broken up, but then this individuals ended up getting married to one another. So really interesting. One thing that we didn't cover, and I found this interesting, and this was something new in our research, was work spouses. Can we talk about work spouses for a moment?
Casey Sword:
Oh, yes, we certainly can. Which the topic of work spouses is something we do cover every year.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, it is. Okay.
Casey Sword:
But I want to get just generally very broad terms. We cover work spouses in our research every year. But Amber, I'm giving you a shout-out because you are the one who suggested I add a few items this year on the subject. So I want to quickly define work spouses for those who are curious. And you might've heard it, my work husband or my work wife. We're saying work spouses for inclusivity. But it's the same concept. It's a coworker or business associate with whom you share a close relationship, maybe similar to the intimacy of a marriage, but platonic. So we found that over a third of us workers have a work spouse. And of these workers over two and five have feelings toward their work spouse. And 45% feel they have to hide their relationship with their work spouse from their significant other or people that they're dating.
And when we break that down even further, again, thank you, Amber, this is a huge discovery, but those who have romantic feelings toward their work spouse are significantly more likely to say that they feel they have to hide this relationship from their significant other compared to those who do not have feelings toward their work spouse.
Amber Clayton:
And thank you so much for adding those in there because-
Casey Sword:
Of course.
Amber Clayton:
... you hear these stories about work spouses, and we've talked about it offline, but it can impact the workplace. This just isn't about having a conversation about work spouses and you don't feel comfortable. What if you have a work spouse, and what if someone's partner finds out that they don't like it, they can create issues at the workplace-
Casey Sword:
And you have to travel with your work spouse, for example, and your partner's already uncomfortable with the idea of you having one, that can get really messy.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely. Any kind of relationship, as we know, can get messy in the workplace. But when you feel like you have a platonic relationship with someone, but then you've got to hide that from your own spouse or your own partner, it just adds a different level to it. And again, as an employer, you may have to deal with the repercussions of that if something were to get pursued even further. I watch a lot of crime shows. So these things happen. You hear about the affairs and you hear that someone is having an affair with someone at their job and they end up doing something to the person's partner, or I've had people before who have actually called and disclosed a relationship between two people at work, and it was a spouse who found out that their employee was having, or their significant other was having an affair with somebody at work, and they wanted to report them because they wanted that person to get fired.
So it really can create a lot of stickiness when you have that. And that's not to say that work spouses are a bad thing, but when you hear the research and you said, what? One in three was it that have feelings for them or 45?
Casey Sword:
Over two in five, 43% have feelings toward their work spouses.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah. See, that could be in a-
Casey Sword:
It's huge.
Amber Clayton:
... there waiting to happen. And it could create problems on both sides of those individuals relationships or even just working together. So that's an interesting.
Casey Sword:
I think next year we have more questions to ask on that topic, don't you think?
Amber Clayton:
Oh, yes.
Casey Sword:
Maybe we should ask next year about whether or not a work spouse became an official relationship? How it evolved at all? I feel like we can get a little bit more-
Amber Clayton:
Granular, really.
Casey Sword:
Granular here for sure.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah. Because I'm thinking about those ones who said that they've had affairs at work, and then you wonder, okay, of those who have had affairs, how many of them started out as a work spouse relationship? And then actually on the other side of it, I have heard where partners know about their work spouses and actually appreciate the work spouses having somebody at the job that's there helping them out. Sometimes there's a friendship between those individuals, but it sounds like more often than not, it might be the opposite.
Casey Sword:
Well, I have a stat, actually, let me pull it up really quick on the friendship piece, because of the workers who have a work spouse, 55% say that their significant other is friends with their work spouse.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, well, there you go.
Casey Sword:
So I will say that those who have romantic feelings toward their work spouse are significantly more likely to say that their partner's friends with their work spouse-
Amber Clayton:
Oh, goodness.
Casey Sword:
... too.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, there you go. More complications.
Casey Sword:
Yes, an added layer of complication. I would think it'd be the other way around if people are uncomfortable but...
Amber Clayton:
That's what I was thinking. So I'm actually a little surprised that the percentage's higher on that with the friends, I just, like I said, anecdotally, I've heard stories of work spouses being friends with the other's partner, and yeah, that's really interesting.
Casey Sword:
Maybe since they are friends, they have a closer relationship with their work spouse, they may be spending more time outside of work together. Maybe it's possible to have stronger feelings for someone because of the nature of spending more time with them. That's just one thought behind that. But yeah, it doesn't quite make a whole lot of sense to me.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, no, nor to me. So just out of curiosity, now that you have this research, you know about it, do you find that you're going to change the way you think or what you do or? I know for me I would. What type of actions, if any, that you would take as a result of the research?
Casey Sword:
I'm personally a big advocate for workplace romance. I don't think this research has changed my mind or shifted my perception. I want employees to feel safe, and I want healthy relationships that don't negatively impact the employees and those that they work with. So as long as it's done right, I'm all for it. And I don't think I would ever be in a workplace romance. And I'm saying that now. There is a world where I do exactly what my parents did, and I start a company with my partner. And that can happen, and that does happen, and I'm open to that. But meeting someone at work and forming a relationship with them is not something I think I would do personally. But to each their own, that's a stat. 78% of workers are comfortable with people being in workplace romances. I will say that I think 40% still consider them taboo and unprofessional, which to me, I interpret that as I'm comfortable with it. I wouldn't do it myself.
It still can be unprofessional depending on the nature of the relationship and how it impacts me. I think that's another really important consideration for those who are deciding to push the limits with it, maybe dating a direct report or something, what you consider fair treatment, others around you may not. So that's one thing I noted, and this is also verbatim, is from someone who said the romance negatively affected the way my subordinates viewed me as their supervisor. Although I believe I treated my then boyfriend equally to other employees. The fact remains that the others did not view my treatment as equal. I regret having put everyone in this position. So for me, this speaks for itself. People should be comfortable, people should be treated fairly, and as long as those things are happening, I'm like, why the heck not?
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, no, you sound like me. I'm all for people finding love, and I've actually thought about being a matchmaker actually, but that's in whole nother life.
Casey Sword:
That would be what you decided to be like if you weren't at the Knowledge Center here at SHRM.
Amber Clayton:
I'm going to share this. I actually set one of my best friends up with her husband today when we were in high school, and I always think about that and there's been a couple of people that I've set up with long-term relationships and I've thought about playing the Cupid and trying to help people find love. Now, am I going to do it at work? No. No, I'm not going to do it at work.
Casey Sword:
That's totally fair.
Amber Clayton:
Yes, yes. But maybe after I retire, who knows? Or maybe it's a side gig. I don't know. I'll have to wait and see.
Casey Sword:
I'll produce your TV show, Amber.
Amber Clayton:
Perfect.
Casey Sword:
Which I don't have any experience, but I would really enjoy that.
Amber Clayton:
I think about the, this is funny, the Millionaire Matchmaker, which is on Netflix, but mine would be Middle Income Matchmaker.
Casey Sword:
I love that. I love that.
Amber Clayton:
Well, Casey, I love that you gave us this information and you joined me on the episode today. I want to thank you for being a part of it.
Casey Sword:
Thank you so much for having me, Amber. I have loved sharing stories and talking about our research, and I really appreciate you having me on here.
Amber Clayton:
Great. Well, thank you. Well, with that, we have come to the end of our show. For listeners who are members of SHRM, you could find resources specific to this topic on SHRM.org. You can also contact SHRM's Knowledge Center and ask one of our HR advisors for assistance at SHRM.org/HRhelp. And for our listeners, a reminder that this podcast is approved to provide one PDC towards SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP re-certification if you listen to the full episode. When you listen to the full episode, enter activity ID 25-R4V3G. Again, that's 25-R4V3G. Please note this activity ID will expire at the end of February 2025. If you haven't already, please subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. And be sure to rate and review the show wherever you listen to podcasts.
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