Learn how to attract and retain top talent by fostering a culture of civility and inclusivity. Hosted by Nicole Belyna, Kenston Henderson, chief empowerment officer of Live With Lyfe, shares what that culture looks like, how to assess your organization for civility, and introduces his REM-C framework to navigate difficult conversations. This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires May 1, 2026. Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz --- Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
Learn how to attract and retain top talent by fostering a culture of civility and inclusivity. Hosted by Nicole Belyna, Kenston Henderson, chief empowerment officer of Live With Lyfe, shares what that culture looks like, how to assess your organization for civility, and introduces his REM-C framework to navigate difficult conversations.
This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires May 1, 2026.
Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz
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Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career.
Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
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Nicole Belyna: Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for informed and aspiring HR professionals. I'm Nicole Belyna, your host. Today we're exploring, recruiting and retaining talent through civility. Joining us is Kenston Henderson, Chief Empowerment Officer of Live With Lyfe. Welcome to Honest HR Kenston.
Kenston Henderson: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Nicole Belyna: So to kick things off, tell us a little bit about your HR background and your experience with recruitment and retention.
Kenston Henderson: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I've been in HR for over 20 years. Um, and so I know I don't look like it, but I have, um, and it's been a beautiful experience, um, going from public sector, private sector to even in government, um, in, during my career.
And so having those different opportunities has. Allow me to go across recruitment, uh, go across, you know, as a generalist, benefits administration, training and development. So, um, you know, it's, it's been a beautiful experience. I know where my, my superpower is, is, is not in recruitment, it's in training development.
But, um, I love being able to, uh, gift to people that are, we're new to new hires to make sure they have an incredible experience coming into organizations. So it's kind of my background. I love people. I.
Nicole Belyna: Well, the talk that you're giving at SHR M'S Talent Conference is about attracting and retaining top talent by fostering culture of civility and inclusion.
Can you tell us what culture looks like and why it's critical in today's talent landscape?
Kenston Henderson: So to me, culture is the way we do things, our, our values, our mission. And I truly believe that, um, when I'm working with organizations, some have seem to lost their way. Um, and because it's a people part of business, uh.
Different people help the culture either, either elevate or deflate. And it's just really getting, uh, leaders and team members on that same page of, of making sure that they're creating and cultivating a culture of civility, um, or belonging. Uh, so that way people really can be at their best at work. And so, um, I love helping people find that, that purpose, that repurpose again.
So,
Nicole Belyna: yeah. No, that's a great point. And. You know, I, when you're bringing people into the organization, finding that culture fit is important. And so it's not just about identifying technically talented professionals, but finding people who align with your culture, who are gonna add to your culture, um, you know, and, and fit with the culture of civility and inclusion that you've mentioned.
Yeah. Can you share an example or two of how a strong inclusive culture has helped organizations stand out to top talent?
Kenston Henderson: Absolutely. Absolutely. I was working, I recall working with a manager who called, he called me on NA 9 1 1 emergency, and he called me because. He was having issues with his team, and his team was very diverse, meaning he intentionally hired 10 different people from 10 different countries.
And I said, well, I see why you have problems, but, um, but I laughed it off. I said, so what's going on? And communication is the key and, you know. From that experience, we did a lot of communication training, uh, together with him and his team so that they can at least get on the same page. And once they got on the same page, that's when you've seen, uh, their, their department just rise above every other department because they had skillsets from around the world.
And so they were able to embrace each other's unique differences. And similarities once they got on the same page. So there's so much power in and inclusivity. And so, uh, I was glad to be a part of that.
Nicole Belyna: And you brought up a really great point, which is, uh, you know, this, this person, business owner who reached out to you, hired a diverse team.
They came from diverse backgrounds, different, different ways of doing things, different ways of thinking. So there's the diversity there, but. Perhaps the inclusion wasn't there, the communication. And so, um, you know, it was really the identifying how everyone can communicate effectively and foster that inclusive environment.
That's the key.
Kenston Henderson: Absolutely. So we definitely went deep in those Myers-Briggs assessments, the different, um, strength Finders assessments. We did 'em all because again, they were such a diverse team that they, they communicated differently. But again, once we got. Them on the same page and we were working, moving.
Nicole Belyna: What steps can HR professionals take to evaluate their organization's culture for civility and inclusivity?
Kenston Henderson: Mm-hmm. Well, when starting with recruitment, it's the front door. And so making sure who's ever part of the recruitment process is, um, Aware, um, of the biases that they hold, um, biases as we know.
And, um, Sharon done done a lot of surveys and studies that it's, it's a billion dollar industry of negative biases at play. And so, uh, hiring to make sure that you're hiring leaders, you're, those are sitting on panels, making sure they are aware of the biases that they hold, and then. Uh, talk about those biases.
And so there's a process with that where once they're assessed, once they know, talk about it, make sure we're addressing those head on. Um, and then being able to make sure that the hiring manager and the department at the new hires are coming into are ready to receive those new employees, um, and not make them run out the door.
Um, I remember I was, uh, doing new hire orientation and I was talking about forgiveness and I was talking about, I was telling the new hires like, Hey, you need to make sure you forgive your previous employers or your previous boss. We don't want you to bring that into our organizational culture 'cause our, our culture is strong and healthy and thriving.
We don't want that. Uh, but then someone came up to me running up to me, said Kinston, um. I've been here for over three weeks. Before I attended new hire orientation, I said, Ooh, that's a problem one and two, that they said they were ready to leave the organization. And I said, well, why is that? Well, my department, it's toxic.
That may, I don't feel supported. Uh, I feel judged. I'm bringing positivity into the workplace, but they're not allowing me to be positive. They say, we don't do that here. And, and, and so they said they were taken aback and so they were struggling, right? So that we have to make sure that this workplace is psychologically safe.
We gotta make sure that people feel like they belong. People are being civil, um, in order for true civility to take place, true belonging to take place in our workplaces. So, um, you know, I can't wait to, uh, share the seven keys. I gave you three, but, uh, I'm gonna give more in this session for sure.
Nicole Belyna: And so.
It sounds like you're saying, you know, start from the beginning. Yeah. Start from the beginning of the employee Lyfecycle. So not even when they start in onboarding, but even before that. Evaluating the hiring process and then onboarding sound. Something as simple as ensuring a timely onboarding.
Kenston Henderson: Yes.
Communicating. Uh, consistently, um, not waiting until a month or a week before they have to come into the workplace that'll help, you know, ease any concerns, but also make sure that they feel like they belong already once you send them that offer letter. For sure.
Nicole Belyna: I think companies can start, uh, communicating their culture very early on.
So even before the hiring process in their job descriptions, uh, you know, how they're written, the. The culture that they want to convey. And then as you pointed out, keeping that message straight through.
Kenston Henderson: Yes, absolutely. And, and really, again, just making sure everybody is on board. Um, because as recruiters we do our best to attract, uh, the best talent, right?
But again, we have to hand them off at some point. And again, we wanna make sure that, uh, that consistency is across the board and, uh, that those employees feel, feel valued.
Nicole Belyna: What are a few ways HR Pros can modify their hiring processes to embody civility and inclusivity?
Kenston Henderson: I think it's just, it is, it's doing the assessment, it's doing the work of taking a step back to make sure before anyone is interviewed, before anyone walks through the doors, that they are truly having a healthy culture, a, a civil culture, if you will.
Um. Again, 'cause of the, the main crest of civil is make sure our employees feel heard, respected, and valued. And so every candidate I bring in are they heard, respected, and valued. And that's a template that can carry through every department to make sure it's, it's, it's, it's brought forth, if you will.
Nicole Belyna: And how can HR professionals best communicate their organization's cultural values to prospective employees?
Kenston Henderson: Yeah, I always say it is. It is not what's on the website. It can't just be a buzzword. Culture cannot just be a buzzword. It has to be lived out through every experience. And I'd say, I'd say to everyone, everybody's a leader. So every person as a part of the, the process from recruitment to, uh, onboarding to, um, getting into the role has a part to play.
And they are, uh, again, have to live the mission and vision statement out loud. And not just, you know, we gotta walk the, walk the talk, talk the walk, walk the walk, walk the talk.
Nicole Belyna: Yeah. No, that's a great point. You know, there, every organization has mission and vision statement, um, you know, guiding principles, if you will, that help form what their day-to-day looks like.
And it goes beyond that to, to actually live it day in and day out. And, you know, as you said, pulling it through the interview process for sure.
Kenston Henderson: Another thing is, is really making sure that people are aware of how they show up, right? Are you, are you emotionally aware of how you show up, whether it's an interviewer or, um, into the organization?
Uh, often task leaders with assessing, uh, themselves their energy, their different levels of energy. Because energy, it talks whether we open our mouths or not. It's going to speak a message of. Do I value or, or not? Do I respect you or not? And so being aware that it's is crucial.
Nicole Belyna: Yeah, I think the self-awareness piece is really important.
And demonstrating civility and inclusivity in an, in an interview process could be. I mean, it's really simple, right? Being respectful of the candidate's time. Yeah. Showing up on time for the interview. You know, the candidate will show up dressed to the nines. They're on time. It. If not early, they're ready to go.
And then you might have a hiring manager who shows up to the interview 10, 15 minutes late, or they're not present, right? They're checking their phone, they're getting distracted. Those are little things that can. Can be a cue to a candidate like, Hey, if they're not paying attention to me now,
Kenston Henderson: yeah.
Nicole Belyna: Are they gonna pay attention to me and give me the respect that I deserve when I'm an employee?
Kenston Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Those micro messages and they can again, have a big positive effect or, or a negative one, and it's very telling for sure.
Nicole Belyna: And it certainly goes back to, you know, earlier in our conversation, uh, you know, you've said your strength is training and development, and certainly the training and development developing our people managers, uh, to make sure that they have that self-awareness and presence.
Uh. Again, starting with the interview process and then living out your organization's values and how they engage with employees every day.
Kenston Henderson: Yeah.
Nicole Belyna: Is critical.
Kenston Henderson: It's critical and I always say there's, there's a cost and so there's a cost for, well, we don't implement these things and there's a cost when, you know, we do.
It's, it's, we want the positive cost though. We don't want the negative ones. 'cause it, it is a cost to recruit, to retain, and to develop. Um, but there's a cost to, to re-recruit the evolving door. Um, you know, I was, I worked at a former company, I won't say no names, but it was a revolving door, um, where the recruiters were constantly having to hire people for those same positions.
Why? There was some not civility taking place, um, people who really didn't feel valued. So we're trying to change that game.
Nicole Belyna: What role does a workplace culture of civility play in conflict management?
Kenston Henderson: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Um. There will be less conflict. Uh, and I would say less negative conflict.
'cause I, I don't believe that all conflict is bad. Um, and it's sometimes necessary for growth and development. But for, for this, for a civil, um, organizational culture conflict. Can be dissolved really quickly. Um, in fact, I'm, I'm gonna be sharing, I call it my hot sauce framework on how to have necessary conversations, um, which can be deemed uncomfortable.
Um, can, can be deemed, you know. Confrontational, but it shouldn't be in a healthy culture. Um, and so in, in my, my framework, I'll talk about, it's called remc, and so it's a respect, empathy, maturity, and then curiosity. I believe wholeheartedly that any conversation can happen when those elements are in the room.
Um, by both parties. Um, and so let's say for example, you find that, uh, oh, not even an example, a story of, I was working with a group of professors, um, at a organiz, uh, a university and there was a, a professor who really, uh, who, who said out loud that if the candidates do not graduate from uh, a Harvard, then they're not a good candidate.
So they struck down the entire group of candidates coming in for that more than qualified experience level. But they said, if they don't graduate from Harvard, we, I don't want them a part of our team. And, and so we had to do, of course, some, some good bias training, uh, to, to ask those necessary questions.
And so that's when we put the REMC framework into action to say, Hey, um, let's first be curious. Why, why do you feel that way? Oh, because it's your experience, so your limited experience has told you the best candidates come from Harvard University. And they said, well, I never thought of that. I never thought about that.
I said, oh, well, here's a good time. Right? But then, but it was, it was such theory approaches, everything. And so if you're coming to someone with necessary information that a necessary conversation needs to take place, you gotta make sure you come respectfully. Um. Try to be empathetic, hear their side, their version, their experience, um, because you wanna see, get a understanding.
We're seeking to understand during this whole process and then being mature enough not to react, um, even if you're offended. Um, but being able to work through that because we have an end goal of hiring the best candidate for this role. That's what it's all, all about. Um, and so. In times of conflict like that, you just need to make sure that, um, those elements are in the space so it, it can be successful.
Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Well, I love the idea of the framework of REM c. It assumes positive, intense. It also kind of makes the person who's initiating the coaching conversation kind of check themselves too, and reframe even if, you know, they're, um, a. Upset by or frustrated by the other person's thought process. You kind of reframe it and get your, your yourself prepared for.
For that conversation. That is, you know, it is conflict, but as you said, not all conflict isn't, is bad. Yeah. Um, you know, at SHRM we have a guiding principle called challenge decide commit. And so we give ourselves permission to disagree, uh, you know, and we can have that healthy dialogue, but ultimately, you know, once we come to the decision, we, we agree to move forward.
Kenston Henderson: Yes. And that's it. That's it. Um. It's, it's necessary, and I call 'em necessary conversations versus uncomfortable, uh, or confrontational, uh, conversations because it's a conversation that needs to happen. If, if you have an interview committee and there is bias at play, it needs to be called forward. Um, so that way you can move forward.
Um, I, I remember, uh, a HR director, um, text me. It was a 9 1 1 text this time, and, uh, she said, Kinston. I had a, a interview panel and someone said that we shouldn't hire this person because they came from this certain school district. Now, this school district they're referring to, it was the largest school district in the state.
And I said, well, they had a limited experience. With someone from the school district and they've made a decision from that, that's, that's problematic. And so, um, let's, let's get in there and have some necessary conversations. And we did. And, and they were able to, to see that, you know, I never wanna call out people, but I want to call them in.
Um, because if we call them in, then they're, they're most likely their defense systems are gonna come down, and then we're gonna have a productive conversation, a necessary one. So,
Nicole Belyna: yeah. And you talked about having necessary conversations, which I, I love, uh, you know, oftentimes when I coach people, managers, it's coaching them through a conversation that is will, will make them uncomfortable.
Um, and sometimes people, managers will avoid those conversations. It could be something really small because it makes them uncomfortable. And to me, having that uncomfortable conversation is part of being a people manager because ultimately it's. It's people, manager's responsibilities is HR professionals' responsibility to develop, develop their teams, get them to success.
And so by having those necessary conversations that can really help, uh, someone shift their, their career in a very different way, just those very simple moments. Right. Absolutely. And so. How can HR professionals effectively engage employees in contributing to more inclusive workplaces? And what role does this dialogue play in the process?
Kenston Henderson: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just, it's having the open dialogue. It is. Um, like for example, I was working with an organization and I gave 'em a question and, and a question was simply, um, hey, let's talk about your, your work experiences, your work, uh, experiences, how you. Got to where you are to current day, and these people have been working together for five years or more, but they have never had that question asked to them.
So when they started talking. I, I seen some of the facial expressions and some of the energy go down and sideways, and I said, well, hold on. Let's, let's, let's talk this out loud. And I knew it was gonna bring some tension. Um, but it, it came out to, to say that some people had, had access to, uh, coaches or mentors or sponsors and others did not.
And they were wondering why didn't they get those opportunities? And, and so, but it turned into a beautiful conversation and, um, learning, um. As people leaned into it and it, it allowed the, you know, leaders to say, you know what, we, we gotta fix some things. There's some things we need to work on. Um, but it was beautiful for them to engage in that, that type of dialogue because they knew that this is.
They knew it was already a good place to work, but it came even a better place to work because they were able to have that open, honest dialogue and it was able to work through those things. And so I really feel that, you know, leaders, if we're walking the walk, it's walking the talk, then we're able to help our employees and our team members engage in these, these fruitful discussions.
Nicole Belyna: What are two to three pieces of advice you'd give HR professionals who wanna get started in fostering a civil and inclusive culture, and how might they get buy-in from leadership?
Kenston Henderson: Yeah. Um, a lot of things that, that has transpired over the last several years, uh, that has stuck around and that's sticking with organizations I'm working with.
It's called Listening Sessions. Listening sessions is, is just simply you going to lunch with someone differently than you and being able to just have conversations, getting to know you, type of conversations. Um, Not being, uh, afraid to step outside of your comfort zone, um, which is your, you know, your core group of colleagues.
Um, but sitting with other people and just having a good conversation, also being intentional about the things that you do, um, as a department or as an organization, getting out, volunteering in different capacities will help. Build comradery, uh, will help build your team of well-rounded individuals who are not just stuck in, I would say, sometimes our bubbles.
And so, uh, those are a couple things I would, I would encourage people to do.
Nicole Belyna: It certainly can be easy to forget that people are people outside of work. Mm-hmm. And, you know, beyond what their day-to-day job is. So getting to see them in their element perhaps. You know, working out in the community or taking them to lunch, getting them outside of those four walls.
Can ab certainly get to that?
Kenston Henderson: Absolutely. And you gotta be intentional with it. It it just, 'cause if you're not, it won't happen. You won't push yourself. I mean, if you don't nudge yourself, it won't happen. 'cause comfort where creatures of comfort. Um, but if you desire to be even more civil, um, and, and inclusive, then we will take those necessary steps.
Nicole Belyna: Is there anything else you'd wanna share about civility, recruitment, retention we haven't talked about today?
Kenston Henderson: Um, people don't leave organizations, they leave the department's culture. And so the overall organization could have a good culture, but each department has a different culture. And so it's, it's so important that, you know, from top down, from top to to middle management to supervisor, first level management, to our employees, it has to be carried through the message of the culture you desire to have.
It can't just stay at the top or it can't just stay at the bottom, but it has to work in congruent. In order for it to be most impactful.
Nicole Belyna: And that's a a really good point. You know, I think about prospective employee looking up a Glassdoor profile on an organization, and the organization might get great reviews, but then you've got that one department where there's these consistent messages that are very different from the balance of the organization.
And so how can HR professionals help? Address those, uh, unique cultures within a culture.
Kenston Henderson: Absolutely. And so, um, as HR, we can see those trends, right? We can see the trends through systems. Um, uh, definitely our HRI systems will, will tell the tale. Our recruitment systems will tell the tale of. Um, of how many openings or consistent openings are taking place within that department.
But so having that necessary conversation with that hire manager, um, to really get the information that's needed to say, um, Hey, how can I help? How can we help? Is there a specific, uh, development program that we can put you in or have your team go through some type of team building something, uh, to make sure that we are cultivating a, a healthy and inclusive culture?
Nicole Belyna: Yeah, well, having a. A REMC conversation with them. Absolute
Kenston Henderson: right. Absolutely. That's, that's the perfect time to put it in place because it puts more work on you, but it also looks bad on the organization as a whole. Yeah. And so I always say I'm, I'm big on branding and if, if, if one piece is out of alignment, it can in affect everyone else too.
So,
Nicole Belyna: yeah. Well, and actually that's a great point, which is, you know, fostering that culture of civility and inclusivity. That allows you to control your employer brand. Yes. Whereas if you don't have that culture of civility and inclusivity, someone else is telling the story of a brand.
Kenston Henderson: Yep. Yep. And, and now we got tools like ChatGPT, that will tell it all.
You know, and I, I always joke around, but even in my presentations, I, I do live. Ai, um, and how an employee who is disgruntled can use that tool and post that to a glass door, post it to a job board, um, because they're that limited experience. It may not be the organization whole experience, but that one department could be very, very, uh, bad.
Nicole Belyna: Well, that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Honest HR. A big thank you to Kenston for sharing his deep insights with us. Honest HR is part of SHR m's. HR daily flagship content series Head to SHRM dot org slash HR daily to learn more and to sign up for the daily newsletter. You can also catch us on SHRM social Media.
You can like, comment and be part of the conversation. Thank you for joining and see you next time.
Producer: This podcast is approved for 0.5 professional development credits, AKA PDCs towards SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Enter the following PDC activity ID in your SHRM activity portal to log your credit. 26-AUFAE. That's 26-AUFAE. This ID expires on May 1st, 2026.