In this episode of Honest HR, host Wendy Fong and special guests Karen, Adrianna and Allison from CCI Consulting discuss everything to learn from the past, present and future of a multigenerational workplace experience.
In this episode of Honest HR, host Wendy Fong is joined by HR consulting/talent management specialists Karen DeLise, Adrianna Gabriel and Allison Levine from CCI Consulting to discuss everything to learn from the past, present and future of a multigenerational workplace experience.
Earn 1.00 SHRM PDC for listening to both parts 1 and 2 of this two (2) part miniseries; relevant details provided in-episode.
This episode of Honest HR is sponsored by Mystery.
Speaker 1:
This episode of Honest HR is sponsored by Mystery. Mystery, creates meaningful connections at work by curating virtual events for teams based on their shared interests. With hundreds of quality vetted events, Mystery has something for everyone. For a special BOGO offer, head to trymystery.com/shrm to book your first event and get the second for free.
Gloria Sinclair Miller:
Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for all of us HR professionals, people managers, and team leads, intent on growing and developing our companies for the better.
Amber Clayton:
We bring you honest, forward thinking conversations, and relatable stories from the workplace that challenge the way it's always been done. Because after all, you have to push back to move forward.
Wendy Fong:
Honest HR is a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management, and by listening, you're helping create better workplaces and a better world. I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton.
Gloria Sinclair Miller:
And I am Gloria Sinclair Miller.
Amber Clayton:
Now let's get honest!
Wendy Fong:
Hey, hey. My HR folks and people managers, welcome. I'm your host, Wendy Fong, Manager of Virtual Event Innovation at SHRM.
Amber Clayton:
Today we're starting part one of a two part miniseries, discussing the facets, features, and bugs of a multi-generational workplace experience.
Wendy Fong:
We're in a unique time where we have five, that's right, you heard it correctly. Five generations in the workforce. What diversity? Diversity of different perspectives and ideas and so much creativity that can occur. Yet, with diversity can also arise issues of miscommunication, unconscious bias.
So although this episode is not meant to promote labels or stereotypes, we do need to recognize and understand the different relationship dynamics, including how they relate to each other, how they relate to leadership, the organization, and just understand different working styles.
So I'm a millennial or the micro-generation of the geriatric millennial, so born 1980 then 1985. So you can kind of guess how old I am. Where we remember the days before PCs and cell phones and smartphones, social media even.
I remember when I moved to San Francisco, I bought a map, like a real paper map, and I had to navigate all the different streets in San Francisco, unfold my big map and figure out all the one ways before there was Waze or Google Maps that existed.
I remember the days of the early PCs, where my parents were fortunate enough to buy us a computer, this big clunky, plastic, metal thing, and the screen was green and black and you had to put in this big eight inch, I think by eight inch, floppy disk in the computer in order to get at work and to type up the DOS commands to boot up the games that I wanted to play. That was interesting.
And also in middle school, I remember saving up all my allowance money to buy a pager so I could communicate with my friends. That was way before text messaging ever existed. It's the original text messaging if you know pager code at all.
In college, I used Facebook for the first time where it was exclusively only for college students and you had to use your college email address in order to get an account. And I used to download free music on Napster and burn my own mix CDs. DJ Wendy in the house if you ever want to hear any of my mix CDs, but those were the days.
Yet, we don't fear technology. We can easily learn and adapt because we... Remember, living through those simpler times? We can incorporate different personal communication such as body language, eye contact, and can adapt to different generations of communication styles. So for example, I know when to and totally respect when I need to send a Slack message to a Gen Zer, but also understand when I need to pick up the phone for a quick call, with a baby boomer.
So today I am joined by three guests from CCI Consulting, a talent management and HR consulting firm with Allison Levine, Adrianna Gabriel, and Karen DeLise. Welcome to Honest HR.
Adrianna Gabriel:
Thanks Wendy. We're happy to be here.
Allison Levine:
Thank you.
Karen DeLise:
Thanks Wendy.
Wendy Fong:
Great to have you all on. So can you briefly introduce yourselves and your background? And I'm curious to know what generation are you?
Karen DeLise:
I guess I'll go first.
Wendy Fong:
Go for it, Karen.
Karen DeLise:
Thanks. Karen DeLise and I come from a background primarily working in corporate in various leadership development and HR functions. And I've been involved with SHRM my entire professional life, which is pretty cool. I love SHRM.
I span, as you'll see, all of us do. Two generations, depending on who did the research. So in some cases I'm looked at as a baby boomer, so at the very end of the baby boomer generation or as a more mature Gen Xer. And I would say that for me, I probably relate more to the Gen X generation. That was between 1965 and 1980.
Wendy, I've been comfortable with technology all of my life. So early in my career I worked for a technology firm in Cal, the space out of California and have just love seeing all of the changes that have come about and the capabilities that we have before us because of the evolution of technology.
I think I'm a little more independent and skeptical is something that sometimes is said about Gen Xers, but still have some of the baby boomer work ethic type things really came down from my parents, so that's me.
Wendy Fong:
That's awesome. Love it. Love it.
Adrianna Gabriel:
Hi. I am Adrianna Gabriel and my role is a director of coaching and development. I actually do not have an HR background. I have a supply chain background, but realized after a certain amount of time in the workforce and also approaching work with that geriatric millennial mindset that I wanted something, that was a little bit more interesting and fun and impactful and something that I could actually make a difference in the world with my work.
So like you Wendy, I remember those days where I used to sit in front of my cassette player and record the radio, in order to have the song that I wanted to listen to. So, I'm happy to be here and share my experiences within the workforce from multiple perspectives just as Karen mentioned.
Wendy Fong:
I'm glad to have you on. Nice to know that I wasn't reminiscing by myself here.
Adrianna Gabriel:
Then you know I was right along with you.
Wendy Fong:
And Allison, you could introduce yourself.
Allison Levine:
Sure. So I'm an operations coordinator at CCI Consulting. I also don't have much of an HR background. I actually got my master's in political communication and was working in the foreign policy realm for a little bit. And similar to Adrianna, I kind of wanted to get involved in more of a mission driven type company and role. Working at CCI really allowed me to be hands on, work with people and really start to make a difference.
Wendy Fong:
Great. Well, glad to have you all on. And let's just dive right in about the different generations. Should we start backwards? I know, Karen you mentioned a little bit about baby boomers. My dad is actually a baby boomer and he is still working at 75 years old. And you talked about that, the dedicated work ethic.
Karen DeLise:
Yeah, absolutely. Kind of some of the cliches if you will, positive cliches I guess, around baby boomers. And by the way, they were traditionally born between 1946 to 1964. They're kind of known to be optimistic, have a can do attitude, maybe a little competitive, have had a reputation as well to be somewhat of a workaholic. I've seen that firsthand and obviously that has detrimental effects to one's health and things like that. Very team oriented.
And right now, the baby boomers 10,000 are retiring every day. And so a lot of implications there because the next generation behind the boomers, the Gen Xers is a much smaller generation, kind of sandwich between the boomers and the millennials.
We do still have some traditional lists, though left. I don't want to leave them out in our workforce and they were born at a very difficult time in our history between 1925 and 1945. So obviously some several wars that went on to great depression, things like that, that really shaped their perspective. And for the boomers, Vietnam War, civil rights, all of these things that really changed our country, hit the baby boomer generation.
Adrianna Gabriel:
It's incredibly impactful. But the two biggest in the workforce right now are the Gen Xers and the millennials. So Gen Xers represent the years of 1965 to 1980. They were about 33% of the workforce right now and really are more flexible. They're informal and also sometimes skeptical as well.
They grew up during the AIDS epidemic and the fall of the Berlin Wall, but they also had some great experiences like the dot-com boom that really are shaping, how they're going about saving, how's it going about investing and how they're also going about approaching work. Just right on that beginning edge of the tech revolution that we're in now.
And so because of all that they've seen, Gen Xers really do value diversity in the workforce and they really also like to give some immediate feedback to the people that they're working with and are really looking for opportunities for personal development. For a Gen Xer, they were born between 1965, all the way up to 1980.
Wendy Fong:
Great. And then Gen Y or millennials, I've heard of many different names, I'm sure there are lots of different nicknames for all these groups.
Adrianna Gabriel:
We kind of skipped over the letter and it went... Millennials, X and Y two [inaudible 00:11:45] born from about 1981 all the way up to 2000. Our older millennials are the classic '80s babies and really got that introduction to technology early in life during our formative years.
We are competitive. We are often labeled as entitled, and many speakers have spoken about millennials receiving trophies just for participating in things. So we do like to be recognized for our achievements. We are very achievement oriented in that way and also civic minded as well.
We really do want to make an impact when it comes to work because we've been shaped by things like Columbine where we recognize that people can be taken away from this world, and at the drop of a dime, similar with 9/11 and the big explosion of the internet. So that great opportunity combined with great loss really does shape how millennials think and how they show up that word.
Allison Levine:
I think that a lot of what the millennials faced, Gen Z's now facing the aftermath. The Great Recession had such an impact on the economy that it's now affecting the Gen Zers who are coming into the workforce.
But on a lighter note, I would say given what Gen Z was shaped by, especially with the introduction of technology at such a young age, it's really allowing Gen Z to be entrepreneurial, very globally engaged, understanding of geopolitics, the nature of how politics affect you as an individual, where you live, those that you love.
And I think that it's allowing Gen Z and the newer generation become a little bit more progressive and a bit more open to change and understanding that change is inevitable.
Wendy Fong:
And what were the years span of Gen Z? Just really quick.
Allison Levine:
So the 2001 to 2020.
Karen DeLise:
Just like to pick up a little bit on some of the items that Allison highlighted in terms of the impact of the economic collapse, because that has a real implications for how we perceive our relationship to work.
A lot of millennials and certainly Gen Z as well saw their parents, if not themselves, their parents losing long term employment. Whereas historically the contract, if you will, with labor and employees was a long term relationship. Now, it's more like speed dating in some cases, where that bond through some of the economic forces has really been changed, and my perception is, permanently.
And so it's not surprising that millennials and Gen Zers have their eyes really wide open, I think. And in many ways admirably so, to know that they are the masters of their destiny, that not to depend on or rely on a company that this is going to be your forever workplace.
I think that the fundamental shift that happened in our relationship to work really started with the dot-com bust, and the housing collapse and all of the things that ensued thereafter has really changed our relationship to the workplace permanently.
Wendy Fong:
With the traditionalists and baby boomers. I know traditionally they would have just one career for the rest of their lifetime. I know my-
Allison Levine:
No more.
Wendy Fong:
... I see that in my parents and even when I look for different jobs or go from one job to the next, they always question me like, "Why are you looking for a different job? Aren't you happy with your job now?"
Adrianna Gabriel:
Definitely. We definitely grew up with the question of what are you going to be. What are you going to be when you grow up? And so you're instilled at a young age, pick one career and stick with it, go to school and get a good job. And that is the formula for success.
And as the years went on, I think we, especially the older millennials, entered the workforce with that mindset and poured it on and identified good jobs and began working and then began seeing, "Hey, this actually doesn't work." And our parents told us that this was going to be successful but they are either not in a position to take care of themselves in retirement, or not in a position to pay for our college or were stressed and never even to be home and so forth.
And we began recognizing that this formula that we were supposed to abide by wasn't necessarily working out for us, and slowly over time began realizing that it was important for us to take a different path.
Allison Levine:
Mm-hmm. And I think that Gen Z coming into the workforce is really, really adapting that. I mean, they are very motivated by personalized positions. They don't just want to have that typical, stereotypical nine to five. You come in, do the same exact thing every day.
They want to be able to have it more personalized to them, more individuality, more creativity so that they can be the masters of their own work. That they know, that they can own something and that they are in a position where it's going to be taken away from them so quickly.
Wendy Fong:
And the jobs we see, that we're going to see 10, 20 years from now have yet to be created.
Allison Levine:
Correct.
Wendy Fong:
I hadn't. The position I'm in now, I had no idea, this is not what I wanted to be when I was younger. I actually wanted to be an astronaut, but then I found out I was terrible at math. So I'm like, "Okay, scratch that." So if Gen Zers are more striving for that individuality, how about traditionalists and baby boomers? What was their more perspective?
Karen DeLise:
Well, it's interesting you say what was, because what was, was kind of what we talked about prior to some of the economic changes that have happened in terms of stability, long-term commitment to a company, and expecting a long term commitment back pensions. Who has a pension? Raise your hand, nobody. All those things that used to be part of the employment contract really don't exist anymore.
And it's interesting, some recent research that I was reading from Harvard Business Review talked about this idea, that over time are differences between generations, they're finding we're really not so different based on generation, it's more about where we are in terms of what phase we are in life.
And there's stereotypes around how one person might view others, and then there's also a concept that I've just becoming familiar with called meta-stereotypes, and it's very impactful in that how we think someone else might be judging us based on our age or our generation.
Even if they're not judging us in that way, will affect our behavior in the workplace. So it's really an interesting and emerging field of study that there's really not a lot of tangible differences. Everyone wants respect.
Wendy Fong:
Exactly.
Karen DeLise:
Everyone wants flexibility, autonomy, the ability to care for the people that they love in their lives. And that spans all generations. How we go about creating that, might be a little bit different.
But I know for myself is on the cause, boomer Gen Xer, that I love working with all generations and younger people in the workforce, it's one of the most satisfying aspects of the last three jobs that I've had.
So it's just something interesting that we're all in the end, we're all individuals who want to be valued and recognized for our contributions and have those opportunities to make it impact.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah, exactly. That's interesting you mentioned that because I remember reading an opinion piece, I forget where it was from on Gen Z and it was terrible actually. You probably don't read it, but they were just getting criticizing Gen Z about all these different characteristics and then I think someone wrote a rebuttal where they basically said, "This is the same exact thing that someone said about Gen Zers at the time when they were younger or millennials at the time when they were younger."
We have the same fears, the same misunderstandings, even though we may have been to that place some point in our lives, but have changed to a different stage of our life like you mentioned. So I wonder if we should approach it like you mentioned Karen, as more studies on the different stages of life and how that impacts our communication styles and changes our values or work ethics.
Karen DeLise:
Yeah, I think that's worthy of more study.
Adrianna Gabriel:
And I think it's interesting because we all want the same things, but the way that we go about getting those things, now has to be different because the world has changed. The world has evolved. And so as Karen mentioned with the dot-com burst and the evolution of the internet, and Wendy, how you were saying that jobs are just different these days. So the way that we approach work needs to be different.
And so while we all might want stability, for example, in prior generations, the workplace, having that one good job and staying for 30 years and getting that golden watch was the way to get stability for yourself and for your loved ones.
Now, that we have globalization and more organizations are leveraging downsizing as an opportunity to enhance the bottom line and able to with remote work have employees based anywhere in the world, that stabilization is not the same. You're not going to achieve it in the same way that you would, if you were to stay at your one company and just have loyalty for the sake of loyalty.
Now, in order to secure stability for yourself, you need to be looking at different skills, different jobs, different opportunities across the globe and opening yourself up in the same way as the organizations are.
Allison Levine:
And to touch on that, Deloitte had a study that they conducted, I think it was last year, and it pretty much just a bullet pointed, the top four things that each generation wanted to see in their company. And almost all of them were exactly the same, maybe different orders, but a big one that has come into play and I think that it was really the start of Gen X bringing this was ethics, but what does ethics mean?
Back in the '80s and '90s, an ethical company, it was very different than what an ethical company is now. But Gen Z view as an ethical company is a company that values social activism, that understands geopolitics, that understands what's going on here. So a huge thing for Gen Z is that they're looking for mission driven work, and they want to know that the company that they're going to is going to have the same core values that they have.
So diversity, D, E, and I of all forms, and being able to understand why mental health matters in the workplace. So the definition of ethical of an ethical company has changed.
Karen DeLise:
The whole activist investor, ESG movement, environment and social governance really is driving business more than ever before. And largely because of the actions of the millennials and Gen Z. I mean, we kind of went from the Wolf of Wall Street kind of world back in the '80s to something very different now. And in the end it's about making the world a better place, not just for ourselves, our country, but the world itself. And that puts a lot of pressure on companies.
In addition, just talking about, as Adrianna was mentioning the relationship to work and how that's changed because the world has changed, it really causes or should cause organizations to get really crystal clear on what their employer's value proposition is, because that has changed tremendously.
And as the bulk of the demographics in the workforce are shifting more and more to millennials, Gen Z and everything that comes next, I don't know where they're going to get go after Z in terms of naming convention, but companies are going to really need to routinely examine their value proposition of why would someone want to work here? And it's got to fill a lot more components of someone's identity than it has before. And that's a good thing, in my opinion.
Allison Levine:
Mm-hmm. To what you just said, Karen. They're going to have to really understand what the person wants, who is applying for the job or who is in the position. Companies are really going to have to be okay with their employees having some sort of online presence.
I'm on TikTok and I love TikTok, but there are a lot of TikTok accounts that I follow of people who are working full time corporate jobs, nine to five positions, and on the side are having their entire TikTok brand or social media brand that they need to maintain.
They have people working for them, people posting for them, they have other people that they need to pay, a whole team behind them in addition to their nine to five everyday job. So companies are going to have to understand what it means to have your employees, be individuals and what individuality means. It's not just taking ownership of certain projects, it's what they're like outside of work and being able to be okay with that.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah, work life balance is no longer separate entities. It really is a blur of blend of both. But with this whole remote work, hybrid workplace culture, some of the younger generations prefer that flexibility as well.
Adrianna Gabriel:
Absolutely. We are in the knowledge economy, right? It is about what you know and how you go about applying what you know. And so organizations who are going to be leading the charge and are going to be able to attract the best and brightest talent are going to recognize that we need to accommodate individuals so that they can bring their best foot forward. And that's going to look different for different people.
We mention stages of life. If someone is caring for an elderly parent and they're going to need the freedom and flexibility to support that person so that they can show up well at work. But we also mentioned mental health, and if someone is not being supported for their mental health or employers aren't offering a benefits package that supports mental health and growth in that space, then they're not going to be able to attract and retain that individual either.
So it spans the gamut, but organizations really do need to be looking at how we go about supporting individuals so that their knowledge can be leveraged in the best way possible.
Wendy Fong:
So going back a little bit to recap, so it's looking at the your organization, value proposition, your mission statement, to attract the right employees and looking also next at the whole benefits package and total rewards on what you're offering to the draw in those employees in your recruitment.
Adrianna Gabriel:
Absolutely.
Karen DeLise:
Yup.
Allison Levine:
Mm-hmm.
Karen DeLise:
And an additional thought here, Adrianna mentioned we're in a knowledge based economy and we're also in a purpose economy. And a gentleman named Aaron Hurst who founded the Taproot Foundation wrote a book called The Purpose Economy.
Where he prophetically saw this coming where people, as Allison mentioned, are very conscious that their companies that they work for align with their values and their priorities. And being sure that your purpose it is in alignment with the company is something that factors into taking a job.
Amber Clayton:
Great comments. I love that. And with that, we're going to conclude part one of our exploration of a multi-generational workforce. Join us next episode for part two, which will include information on the one PDC, your earning for listening.
Speaker 1:
This episode of Honest HR is sponsored by Mystery. Companies use Mystery to make meaningful connections for employees at work. By breaking down silos and engaging employees, Mystery boosts morale and builds connections across teams by curating virtual events for teams based on employees shared interests.
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