Husbands and wives of armed forces personnel are not just an underutilized talent pool. According to Brytnee Fallan, a 16-year military spouse within SHRM’s own ranks, they can also be formidable agents for change. Find out how HR pros can better support and tap into the talents of military spouses as Fallan and special guest host Marjorie Morrison discuss the unique strengths and challenges of this skill-rich community. Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz --- Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
Husbands and wives of armed forces personnel are not just an underutilized talent pool. According to Brytnee Fallan, a 16-year military spouse within SHRM’s own ranks, they can also be formidable agents for change. Find out how HR pros can better support and tap into the talents of military spouses as Fallan and special guest host Marjorie Morrison discuss the unique strengths and challenges of this skill-rich community.
Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz
---
Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
[00:00:00] Marjorie Morrison: Welcome to Honest HR. I'm Marjorie Morrison SHRM's, Executive and Residence for Mental Health, and also your special guest host for this episode. For the past decade, military spouse unemployment has hovered around 21% according to the US Department of Defense. That's a staggering figure compared to the overall US annual unemployment rates, which typically fall below 5%.
Yet at the same time, 76% of HR professionals say they've struggled to fill open roles in the past year, which is according to SHRM's report, on leveraging the potential of military spouse talent. So today we're exploring the unique strengths and career challenges of military spouses and how HR can best support them.
Joining us is Brittany Fallon, she's a military spouse, and she's also the lead of financial strategy and accounting operations here at SHRM. Brittany, welcome to Honest HR.
[00:01:01] Brytnee Fallan: Thank you.
[00:01:02] Marjorie Morrison: Now I know in your day job, it's not usually being interviewed on a podcast, so I just like wanna thank you in advance for taking the time to do this.
'cause I know that it sounds like you have a very different role at SHRM and somehow someone pulled you in and said, you know what, let's talk about what it's like to be an employed military spouse. I personally have spent many, many, many years of my career working with the military and one thing I have learned is that there's no military member that's had the same experience.
And so I'm assuming there's no military spouse that's had the same experience. So I definitely appreciate that you're sharing with us, uh, at sort of generalizing it for all military spouses. So we're just gonna get started here. So military spouses often face. Frequent relocations. So we know that, and that can be very challenging to build a stable career, right?
If you're supporting your spouse, their job is to get moved and to relocate. And, um, what is it called if they don't homesteading? Is that the, the term they give it? I think that's what they call it. I've never had it. Can you share some specific barriers that you've encountered when you're seeking long-term employment?
Then how that's, how that's like helped or hurt or impacted your professional development.
[00:02:19] Brytnee Fallan: Yeah. Um, I think with the frequent relocations like everyone else, it's, you know, led to moving jobs on probably a consistent basis. Um, every three to five years. I think the longest place we've been is about five years, but I think the.
Biggest obstacle or the biggest challenge I've found in my career is that you're never at a job long enough for career progression. Oh. So I've had a breadth of experience, but I would say progression for me specifically, um, has probably been the biggest challenge. How long have you been married? 16 years.
[00:02:55] Marjorie Morrison: Wow. So. Where have you moved in those 16 years?
[00:02:59] Brytnee Fallan: I was actually, we just bought a new home and we were going through like all the moves. This is our 12th home together. Wow. Um, in 16 years. And we've lived, we've three cross country moves.
[00:03:12] Marjorie Morrison: Whoa.
[00:03:12] Brytnee Fallan: Um, some deployments in there. I think it's, we've been in California, Maryland, Virginia.
He's been overseas for a few years without me, so it's. It's been a long time.
[00:03:26] Marjorie Morrison: Wow. And making friends, I would imagine is also hard as, or um, is it now a technology easier to keep in touch with people?
[00:03:33] Brytnee Fallan: I think, you know, networks and social net social media has made it easier to like keep in touch. Um, and building networks has probably been easier since.
[00:03:44] Marjorie Morrison: So there's these unemployment gaps or, or employment gaps. So I'm assuming you, you have to move. You only stay in one place for so long, then you've gotta go find the job at the new place. So there are these gaps that exist, I'm assuming on, on more resumes than not. What could HR professionals do to kind of help, like in a, in a way, like view you as a more holistic candidate?
[00:04:10] Brytnee Fallan: I think honestly it's, it, it's very basic. It's, you know, there, it could be a deployment, it could be a, a pc s move, an overseas tour. Um, I think, you know, relocations and gaps of employment are just inevitable. I think understanding the why behind those gaps is really the, the base and foundation of how you can, you know, just support.
Your talent pool and understand their, you know, challenges. I think if you don't understand the why there's employment gaps and you're just kind of,
[00:04:45] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah,
[00:04:45] Brytnee Fallan: looking at them like everything else, it, you can miss a opportunity.
[00:04:50] Marjorie Morrison: I mean, there's a flip side to this, right? Where you've had to be very adaptable, right?
You've gotten probably, what did you say, 12 moves. Yeah, pretty good at moving and also probably, um. Being able to release things and say, okay, I am not taking that. I'm not going. And I would think those are really good qualities in a job, right? Like you, you have to think on your feet. You can't get too stuck in one thing.
Um, I. Those are, to me, I would think are very transferable skills.
[00:05:23] Brytnee Fallan: I, I would say like it's taught me to be adaptable. It's taught me to be flexible, have critical thinking skills. I think one of the things that has probably been the most unique experience for me is, you know, I got my master's in HR and compensation and benefits and, and I've moved into financial, um, operations.
And so I think. Taking roads and risks in my career just to meet the needs of, you know, my lifestyle has been, you know, it's been scary, but it's also been very rewarding specifically for me.
[00:05:55] Marjorie Morrison: Did you like ever see that this was gonna be your life at the beginning? Like was there a, I know you mentioned earlier before we got started that you got married young.
[00:06:05] Brytnee Fallan: I did.
[00:06:07] Marjorie Morrison: So you got like pulled onto a journey?
[00:06:10] Brytnee Fallan: I never envisioned it, but I think I've taken it in stride. It's become, you know, an experience that I've enjoyed. I've been fearful. I've had, you know, ups and downs along the road. But I also really, I really appreciate the fact that I've gotten to experience everything I have.
[00:06:30] Marjorie Morrison: Oh, I love that. So it's like you're, you're coming at this as the, it's been a strength and it's given your life a sense of adventure. Like is there, like what could you do from your own perspective or like what could HR professionals do to also see that as a positive?
[00:06:46] Brytnee Fallan: I, I mean, I think just. From understanding the experience.
Like I've had, you know, I've worked in seven different industries, from engineering to government contracting. I've worked at a credit union, I've worked at, you know, a consulting company for person-centered organizational work. So I think just the depth and the breadth of experience that I have has really helped shape like my abilities and the experience and expertise I have.
[00:07:14] Marjorie Morrison: That's so good. I mean, so. Are there parts of the military that affect your day-to-day life as well?
[00:07:22] Brytnee Fallan: I would say deployments, you know, temporary assignments of duty where my spouse is gone for, you know, unknown number of days, which has happened. Um, it changes your, you know, your routines. Mm-hmm. And I think just being able to operate independently.
As a military spouse, I think it's also kind of, it shows in my professional life, I'm very, you know, I like to work independently. I like to make sure I finish things to completion. I'm very, I think it's ta it's very, it's pushed me into different zones of my comfort.
[00:07:58] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah, I, I, I bet. Because. Most people, like, do you feel like, can't relate?
Like are you, are you aware of other military spouses? Let's just say here at SHRM, like in, in all the different jobs you've had, do, is it sort of like, you know that expression, birds with a feather block together? Do you find each other?
[00:08:15] Brytnee Fallan: We do. I, there's a few military spouses here at SHRM and, and we know each other.
Um. One of 'em I play kickball with. I think the community, um, is very strong. I think we also, we understand the challenges, so we support each other. We know like, Hey, if your husband's deployed and your kids are having, like, let's go pick, let's have one of us go pick 'em up and, and you, you're working late.
I think the community really is supportive of each other, which also helps.
[00:08:42] Marjorie Morrison: So I learned about you that your husband's in the Marines. Mm-hmm. And I shared with you, I spent many years working with the Marines, and so I always say my, my work with the military was an N of one because I only worked with the Marines and I only worked with males because I did my work at MCRD and then Camp Pendleton, which was infantry, and it was all, all males.
And so I'd never had the chance to work outside of that. And I'm also just curious. Is there a difference? Is there a difference if someone's a Army spouse or an Air Force spouse, or,
[00:09:13] Brytnee Fallan: I think the lifestyles, there's unique, um, experiences that are had. I think tours could be different in timeframe. I know I.
Depending on enlisted or officers, your tour of duties could be two years to three years. Um, from branch to branch, I, I think they're similar, but I also think that, you know, their resources are a little different just based on, you know, military spending and budgets and what opportunities and resources are out there.
[00:09:44] Marjorie Morrison: So when I think about HR, right, to bring it back to HR professionals, so. Now, let's just say they have, they've hired you. They've looked past the resume. They realize the strengths that people have, the unique strengths that are adaptable. And I was just in a conversation this morning about how do we take people who just can't adapt?
This is a true story. They can't, 'cause somebody said 75% of my team does not adapt to change. We've got about 25% that are nimble and you know, are able to kind of iterate. And 75% who really don't like change can you help do some change management work. And so I now that's like fresh on my mind as I'm trying to put together.
How would I do that? I know you have these great strengths that you bring to it with that adaptable, but how do we, what could HR professionals do? Once you're in the job to help sort of elevate that, bring that out, and then support you during times that, you know, unpredictability of what, what, like you said, deployment or, or ish assignments and things like that.
[00:10:52] Brytnee Fallan: I think one of the strengths, and I, I'm making a blanket assumption here for military spouses in general is the strength of being, I think it's called a change agent. So I think because we're so used to it, we understand one, it's gonna happen, it's inevitable. How do you just accept it and you know, be optimistic and push through it.
But I also think understanding that, you know, you need to go out and. And focus on the why of the change. And they can be your change agents where they're going out there and educating people on the importance of change or the, you know, why we need to do this. And I think because we're so experienced with it, we are, we're good at that.
We have a natural inclination for it. I love that. Did they teach it to you or did you just learn it? I've worked, you know, with my breadth of experience, I've worked for different, um, you know, companies who've taught certain aspects of change management, and that was one of the things that really stuck with me.
[00:11:50] Marjorie Morrison: Did you have any training when you became a military spouse of like, this is what life is gonna be?
[00:11:56] Brytnee Fallan: No, I think there are courses. I think, you know, it was 16 years ago and I first jumped in and I, I don't think I took advantage of many of the resources when I first,
[00:12:08] Marjorie Morrison: We often talk about networking and how important networking is for everybody.
Um. Johnny C. Taylor Jr. The CEO of SHRM calls this a relationship economy, which I just love that term and I, I, I quote him on it all the time 'cause I think it's, it's so great. Um, have there been things that in your different jobs that companies have done to help you network? 'cause it's also professionally, but also personally, right?
You get into a new community, make new friends, like it really kind of helped you kind of get.
[00:12:40] Brytnee Fallan: Acclimated. So I, there were one company, I think it was prior to the pandemic, so where remote work wasn't as, you know, common as it is, um, that. Knew I was a military spouse and tailored a job so that I, no matter where I moved, so for five years I was able to stay with one company.
Wow. I took the job with me and so they worked with me and I, it was very early in my, I would say earlier in my career, so I was very grateful and thankful that I had that opportunity. Um, and they were able to. Take lessons from that as well though, I think, and they've tailored their future job offerings, well be able to accommodate them.
[00:13:17] Marjorie Morrison: So if you, you could do write any kind of program policy, and I know like the um, US Chamber of Commerce, the hiring or Harris program has a really big military spouse employment kind of program. Like what, what advice would you give to a company? I mean, you've definitely had a lot of experience.
I,
[00:13:36] Brytnee Fallan: you know, it's maybe my opinion, but I think really focusing job descriptions and.
Like location of jobs on the skills needed to get the job done rather than, you know, traditional career paths or traditional, you know, task orientation of job descriptions. I think if you build it around the strengths, I think you can get more out of that person.
[00:13:58] Marjorie Morrison: So I, I. I think what I hear you saying is that it's not necessarily just the job description, it's the actual traits that you might have.
Like you might have the analytical and somebody who's analytical and can be adaptable. Those traits can fit into many different roles. So it's like being more holistic when they're thinking about looking at the person.
[00:14:18] Brytnee Fallan: Person. Yeah. I think, you know, my current boss saw that I would, I had a skillset where I could analyze data, I could process, you know, documentation.
Quickly and figure out and provide information to give them backing to make decisions. I think she found that very valuable and she's kind of really made a role that really highlights all my strengths.
[00:14:39] Marjorie Morrison: I love that. And something that people, managers and HR professionals couldn't, can do. Right? They can think outside of the box, they could think of people as talent and then how does that talent fit into roles,
[00:14:51] Brytnee Fallan: And how do you meet the needs of your organization?
[00:14:53] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah, I love that. So, Brittany. I'm gonna reread that stat that was in the intro, 'cause it was kind of profound to me. Despite understanding the unique challenges of military spouses, 60% of HR professionals told SHRM they found it more difficult to retain them than non-military affiliated employees. Does that shock you?
[00:15:17] Brytnee Fallan: No.
[00:15:18] Marjorie Morrison: Wow. So why, why is that, and what can HR professionals do?
[00:15:22] Brytnee Fallan: I think. Kind of going back to the unique and situation I had where a company let me kind of move cross country and take my job with me. I think prior to Covid, that was a lot harder to find and so. I think, and even with like deployments, military spouses will tend to try to take a step back professionally to be able to care for their family, the kids, you know, I know there's a lot of life things that go on that it's really hard to make a structured
[00:15:50] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah.
[00:15:50] Brytnee Fallan: Schedule on a full-time basis with a family at home. And your husband gone.
[00:15:54] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah. Um,
[00:15:55] Brytnee Fallan: I, I think it's just. There's been a lot of obstacles for military spouses and just knowing and understanding that doesn't make them, you know, less loyal or committed or, um, yeah,
[00:16:06] Marjorie Morrison: I mean, I, I really think that there's such this kind of role that an HR professional can play to really help with empathy and, and some compassion.
And I, I so many times I just think if a goal is to get the job done. Maybe sometimes there's flexibility as far as like, you're getting your job done and you're performing it, you know, above the, above the mark that maybe there can be some compassion towards schedules or things like that.
[00:16:38] Brytnee Fallan: I, I think it's, it's all based on what that position is, is aimed to accomplish, right.
I think with my job, you know, at the end of the day, I know that they want, you know, information to make decisions or they need, um. Certain tasks processed, and so there's the task completion, you know, takes a certain amount of time. But when you're processing it, I've processed it, you know, late at night and I still, I've made different accommodations in my life to attend, whether it's a promotion or a retirement ceremony as a military spouse.
So I, I, I've really appreciated that SHRM's given me the flexibility to be able to be present for my husband's career. And I think. Having an employer that understands and provides the empathy to be able to, you know, allow their employees and understand that that's their life now.
[00:17:29] Marjorie Morrison: So is it a cultural decision that a company makes, an organization makes?
[00:17:34] Brytnee Fallan: I, I truly probably would say that, yeah. I think generally if you are understanding, your managers are understanding, your teams are understanding, and I think it's just a common. Practice. I think the more you preach the commonality of it, the more it's just an everyday occurrence.
[00:17:53] Marjorie Morrison: Have you worked somewhere where you did not feel that the culture was right?
[00:18:00] Brytnee Fallan: That's a great question. I, I think I. There have been different industries that struggle and have a harder time allowing for those because the maybe strict deadlines like the engineering firm was a great place. I think culturally it was great. I also think they had deadlines for different designs and things like that, so it was a little harder to be given flexibility and things.
[00:18:22] Marjorie Morrison: But we oftentimes learn from things that are done right and from things that haven't. Been been Right. And it sounds like SHRM has been a really, really good fit for you. What, what could like, and now you're in a situation right here to be able to share with HR professionals, like what can they do or what advice would you have for them, what not to do?
[00:18:43] Brytnee Fallan: I think just maybe educating managers on one, the value military spouses can bring. Um, I think having flexible policies and understanding that we're not just military spouses, we're humans too. We have the same problems as everyone else. For the most part, we just have additional or different ones. Um, I think just employers having compassion and empathy and inclusion.
I think, you know, not making someone feel like it's, you know, a burden or that they're doing something wrong by, you know, having life.
[00:19:15] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah, inclusive is, like you mentioned inclusivity and that's, that's an important piece of this. Um. Is it helpful for an employer to, I don't know, create an ERG or a connecting, it goes back kind of to a networking question or, or I don't know.
Is there anything that employers can do to help sort of the rest of the company know and understand that the, the situation that military spouses are in,
[00:19:45] Brytnee Fallan: I think. From my experience, just being able to have a team and a community. I think with the frequent moves we're, we're starting from scratch, you know, when we move and we go to a new location for the most part, so like our work families, you know, become our community and I think it however you aim to do that, as long as you can provide that community, it's I very important.
Like I've always thought about the people I work with as my own little support system and. You know, some people like to have work life and home life. Yeah. But it, the lines are a little blurred for me.
[00:20:20] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it makes perfect sense. And on that, on that thread, are there military spouses that you've stayed in touch with outside of work and commiserate with?
And have you learned anything about like, the employment from them?
[00:20:32] Brytnee Fallan: Oh, I, I have, I. I am very heavily involved in, you know, some of our military spouse programs like kickball and things like that. And I think, wait, so is that a military spouse kickball league? It is. How fun. So, and we, people move all the time, so you end up staying friends with people who are in North Carolina or Japan and their careers.
You get to watch how they've taken courses in their careers and we all have different, you know, journeys.
[00:20:59] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah, I think that that's so great. Did someone start the kickball.
[00:21:04] Brytnee Fallan: Yeah, there's. A few of that run the league here, specifically in this area.
[00:21:09] Marjorie Morrison: Wow, I love that. And somehow you found out about it.
[00:21:13] Brytnee Fallan: Yeah, I found out about the league in general in California.
'cause it's a national, a nationwide league, but it's for only for military spouses. It is.
[00:21:21] Marjorie Morrison: Wow. What other kind of programs are there out there? 'cause maybe one of the other things that HR professionals can do is help, you know, be able to help military spouses get connected to some of these programs. Are there other ones?
[00:21:33] Brytnee Fallan: Um, I. There's definitely a few. That's the one that I've committed to. 'cause having a full-time job, it's one that's my outlet. Um, I know others have like, you know, mom groups or they have like running groups and things like that. Um, it's a little hard for me to commit to those. Yeah. Wear full-time though is kickball like once a week.
It's, it's, there's a spring and fall and then there's, um, different tournaments in the summer and winter time, but it's every Sunday.
[00:22:03] Marjorie Morrison: Oh, that's perfect. So it's on a Sunday and then you like go out after,
[00:22:08] Brytnee Fallan: it's an all day event. So you're pretty, was, you're pretty tired after.
[00:22:12] Marjorie Morrison: Um, but it sounds like you're, that is really an investment in community, in friendship and networking.
I find that so interesting. So it's like one, you have two free days a week. And one of them you're investing in with military spouses. And
[00:22:28] Brytnee Fallan: we do like charity work and volunteer work. Part of breast association is they, we have to give back as a A league. And so we'll do you know donations for food banks or the SBCA or we'll do you know, donations and doing charitable um.
Gathering charitable funds for different, you know, nonprofits. Um, so I, it's, it's fulfilling. And those are your people? Yeah. I actually, one of the girls I played kickball with, I ended up referring her to a job here at Sherman. Now she works here, so.
[00:23:00] Marjorie Morrison: Oh, I love that. That is so, that is such a beautiful way of really kind of sticking together and, and being supportive.
For each other, and I mean of the importance of networks. Yeah. And I'm sure when they have to move or someone's moving that you know, it's a goodbye party, but don't, right. Is it it going bad? So four out of five HR pros agree that their organizations want to hire military spouses, but three out of four organizations haven't implemented any tailored strategies to do so.
So looking ahead, what would you hope to see from organizations and HR professionals in terms of building career pathways and opportunities for military spouses?
[00:23:42] Brytnee Fallan: I, I think there are so many military spouse, you know, employment programs like hiring our heroes and things like that, that do provide valuable resources to military spouses who may not have.
Insights or knowledge of how, how to really explore that professional development on their own. Um, and I think just working with the different associations that are out there, um, you know, understanding that when you get resumes, it could be a military spouse and, and maybe having a little more flexibility in your talent pool analysis when you're reviewing, um, removing some biases.
Teaching managers the value of different, you know, talent pools.
[00:24:23] Marjorie Morrison: So. What happens when someone's active duty? Right? And then they, they retire or they leave the military, they become veterans. Right. And now veteran employment's like a whole nother kind of situation. Right? But in some ways quasi similar in that it is somebody who's at an untraditional resume, untraditional kind of work experience.
It needs to be translated a little bit into kind of what jobs would want. I. I'm curious 'cause you've been in 16 years. Wait, how many years has your husband?
[00:24:59] Brytnee Fallan: I've been married doing for 16 years. My husband's been in about 19.
[00:25:02] Marjorie Morrison: Yeah, so 19. Okay. So retirement's coming. Yeah,
[00:25:05] Brytnee Fallan: I, I can hope so.
[00:25:08] Marjorie Morrison: 20 is about, 20 is,
[00:25:09] Brytnee Fallan: I think he'll probably track to 24.
It's looking.
[00:25:12] Marjorie Morrison: Wow. Wow. So at some point, do you feel as though you're looking forward to that? Or do you think there's gonna be a piece of this that you're gonna miss?
[00:25:23] Brytnee Fallan: I think there's a piece of the community that I'll miss. Like I, as much as I probably haven't looked forward to the challenges that military life has brought, I also, there's been a lot of positives.
There's been the community, I've gotten my kickball, I've, I've met wonderful people, both active and spouses. Um, we've had experiences. We've lived in really cool places. Um, I, I would miss it a lot.
[00:25:51] Marjorie Morrison: And that is gonna do it for this week's episode of Honest HR. A big thank you to Brittany for sharing her deep insights with us.
Honest HR is part of SHRM's HR daily flagship content series. Head to SHRM dot org slash HR daily to learn more and sign up for our newsletter. You can also catch us on SHRM's social media like, comment, and be part of the conversation. Thanks for joining. See you next time.
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