Gen Z, the latest generation to enter the workforce, stands out from other generations. Hosts Wendy Fong and Monique Akanbi sit down with Keri Mesropov, Founder, Spring Talent Development, at SHRM INCLUSION 2024 to discuss considerations for Gen Z at work, the value they bring, and how HR professionals and leaders can best integrate them into the workforce.
Gen Z, the latest generation to enter the workforce, stands out from other generations. Hosts Wendy Fong and Monique Akanbi sit down with Keri Mesropov, Founder, Spring Talent Development, at SHRM INCLUSION 2024 to discuss considerations for Gen Z at work, the value they bring, and how HR professionals and leaders can best integrate them into the workforce.
This podcast is approved for 0.5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires January 1, 2026.
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Speaker 1:
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Monique Akanbi:
Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for informed and aspiring HR professionals intent on transforming workplace challenges into golden opportunities.
Amber Clayton:
Every week, we chat with industry experts to bring you insights, trends, and actionable advice through relatable stories from the real world of HR.
Wendy Fong:
Honest HR is a SHRM podcast, and by joining us, you're helping to build a more engaged workforce and drive organizational success.
I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton.
Monique Akanbi:
And I'm Monique Akanbi.
Group:
Now, let's get honest.
Wendy Fong:
Hello and welcome to Honest HR from INCLUSION 2024 in Denver, Colorado. I'm Wendy Fong, your Honest HR host, and I'm joined by my co-host, Monique Akanbi.
Monique Akanbi:
Hello, everyone.
Wendy Fong:
And we are so excited today to have our special guest, Keri Mesropov, and she is the founder of Spring Talent Development.
Welcome to Honest HR, Keri.
Keri Mesropov:
Thank you. So glad to be here.
Wendy Fong:
Well, we would love to hear what is the definition of a Gen Z. There's a lot of different generations in the workplace, so let's just start there.
Keri Mesropov:
Okay. Gen Z, bookend birthdates 1995, 2012. That's what Gen Zers are in terms of their generation. Now, if we want to talk about what makes them different?
Wendy Fong:
Yes.
Keri Mesropov:
Okay. So the chief number one differentiator of this generation. Every time a new generation enters the world or the workplace, we say, "This one is different." "This one is" fill in the adjective. And what's true and what data and research will prove is that this generation indeed is in fact different from any other generation because of the role that technology has played in their lives.
There's a wonderful author named Jonathan Haidt. He has done a lot of research on generations, especially this one. He's written a wonderful book called The Anxious Generation. And he describes that we have gone from a time when we would be outside and playing with friends, even millennials, even late millennials, and we would experience the world in three dimension and we would engage in some innocent, benign, risky behavior like driving the car a little too fast or when we're a little older, trying beer. And that all has been replaced by screen time.
Wendy Fong:
Interesting.
Keri Mesropov:
And that will create a difference and it has created a difference. It's, as he calls it, been a great rewiring of childhood. And that, indeed, has made this generation very, very different.
And there are upsides to that. They're quick to employ technology to help us solve problems. And there are lots of downsides to that. They've had a disservice in terms of their soft skills have been depleted or not grown, and they have been stricken with anxiety and depression. And so that has defined this generation, those two things.
And going back to the soft skills, in the workplace, we will look upon this generation and not understand why they don't get this or why they don't get that or why they don't have any clue about X, Y, or Z and the truth of the matter is that they haven't had the chance to experience that. Think about what we did as kids on the playground, right? We wanted to play on that. No, I want to play on that piece of equipment and we negotiated. We resolved conflict. These young people have not had those organic opportunities at the level that the rest of us have had. So that's chief number one reason that they are different and something that really defines them.
Wendy Fong:
Do you think parenting and parenting styles have also influenced the way that they... their characteristics of that generation?
Keri Mesropov:
Yeah, it's a great question and the answer is absolutely. So well-intentioned authorities and parents have sort of overprotected this generation in the real world.
Wendy Fong:
Like helicopter parenting or to some degree?
Keri Mesropov:
Yes, and you think about what is normalized stress and anxiety. A parent, I'm a Gen Xer, so my parents were like, "Go off and try these things. Sure." And so I did that and you experience regular stress and anxiety, but as a result, you grow from those experiences. You go to a new school. You go to another country. You try an instrument. You put yourself in some sort of benign, stressful situations, and then you come back to mom and dad and say, "That was kind of scary." And they say, "Yeah, it was, but off you go to do something like that again."
And parents have, in fact, held them at that soothing point too long or forever. "Oh, you shouldn't experience that. Susie was mean to you on the playground. Play inside. Stay inside for recess." And so that's absolutely in the data and research a reason why young people today have that stress and anxiety because they haven't had a chance to see what is normal in terms of stress and anxiety.
Wendy Fong:
Wow, interesting. It's almost like those experiences where a parent would let you try and fail. That's what builds resiliency. And I know Tammy Duckworth talks about grit, how you develop that grit to make you persevere in life and life is supposed to be challenging. It's supposed to be hard.
Keri Mesropov:
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And so Gen Z comes into the workplace and I always say to leaders that Spring works with, "They're yours now. We can't send them back to their parents to 'fix this.'" And so what are we going to do to help fill these gaps that exist and make them more fearful, more tense to just make everyday decisions.
Wendy Fong:
And be able to take risks...
Keri Mesropov:
Yes.
Wendy Fong:
... if they're being sheltered.
Keri Mesropov:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Monique Akanbi:
I'm just thinking parenting-wise because I'm raising two Gen Zers right now.
Wendy Fong:
And I have one Gen Z.
Monique Akanbi:
And you have one, yeah.
Wendy Fong:
I have one Gen Z too.
Monique Akanbi:
And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Thankfully, I'm in HR. And I have tried to undo some of it, but I can definitely relate because I tell my kids now. [inaudible 00:07:28] "My mom let me." She did. She let me go. And if I think about even my own parenting style a few years ago, I realized, "Okay, I am not doing them any justice because they will be in the workplace. So how do I prepare them even for that?"
Keri Mesropov:
That's right. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
Monique Akanbi:
Yeah. Keri, Gen Zs made their entry into the workforce about a decade ago. I have a 20-year-old, so she entered the workforce maybe about four years ago. She was 16. She went and got her job on her own. How have they since impacted business and strategy, industry standards?
Keri Mesropov:
In lots of ways. I think three really important ways that I love to see them sort of blazing trails. The first thing, I do as part of my work with Spring, I do various listening tours and I'm about to complete one right now with leaders on various topics. And one of the things that I'm learning, it's small group, but interesting data, is that back in 2020 when George Floyd was murdered, there was this spark for DEI programs in the workplace and that was led by multiple generations in the workplace. And today, you go into those workplaces and who is sustaining and advocating for those programs? It's Gen Z.
Monique Akanbi:
Gen Z. Yeah.
Keri Mesropov:
And that is almost hands down who has sort of made their way to the front of those programs and advocating again and really leading the way. So that's number one way that they're changing, I think, the workplace.
The other is the refrain of flexibility. We want flexibility in the workplace, and this generation is not going to let that go. They're leading the way. They're changing the narrative around that. I want to decide where I work and from where I work and when I work that matches my energy, that matches my ability to produce high-impact work. And so they are changing and shaping the contour around flexibility in the workplace.
And the last one that I am deeply appreciative of is work-life balance that they are changing. And this is the generation who saw their parents, I'm looking straight at myself, and even their grandparents churn and burn out. And they are looking at that saying, "I don't want that. I want a life that is full and complete and that isn't going to be filled with this job that only sucks the blood out of me." And it's not that they don't want to work hard. It's just that they want to make sure that that is contextualized in the rest of their lives and that is not going to go away and that's led by Gen Zers.
Wendy Fong:
Okay, so to recap, it sounds like they really care about social justice issues, how it impacts our culture, the world, flexibility, like you mentioned, to not be put in a box necessarily in how they work. And then also, meaningfulness, purpose, right? I've read that they care more about the mission, the values of the company, that they want to make a positive impact in the world.
Keri Mesropov:
They do. They do. There's data that says baby boomers were very purpose-driven back in the day. This generation is even more so and will leave a job if it becomes misaligned with their values or if they don't see the company contributing to a greater good beyond their own bottom line.
Wendy Fong:
Oh, interesting. And it's more important than salary because it's very important value and benefit.
Keri Mesropov:
Yeah.
Wendy Fong:
Well, I know that right now, there's six generations in the workplace, right? I think, right? Five, six. It can be-
Keri Mesropov:
Five or six.
Wendy Fong:
Five or six depending if they're still working or retired. I know my dad's still working. He's 78.
Monique Akanbi:
Yeah, there's still some traditionalists that are still working.
Wendy Fong:
78. He's still working. Yeah, he's going to work forever. But he loves it.
Keri Mesropov:
Fulfills him. It fulfills him.
Wendy Fong:
Exactly. He loves it. Well, if you could tell us now that there's five, six generations in the workplace, how does Gen Z and all the other generations, how did they interact in ways they get along or conflict? It'd be great to get some perspective on that.
Keri Mesropov:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the first thing that happens in the workplace, not necessarily the predominant thing, but the first thing I would say is that the conflict of these kids, they don't work as hard. They don't understand what it means to be loyal to a company. That narrative, my opinion is it's a lazy cop-out. It's a very lazy cap-out and we knee-jerk that reaction because that's what others before us have said. That's just what we're programmed to say. And that causes conflict, of course.
I believe it is so important to understand a person and in this case, a generation's context, to understand how to get the best of them and sort of move them to their best light. And so when we in the workplace take the time to engage in conversation about things that make up your generation that is different that makes up the generation that you come from, the experiences that you've had, the experiences that I've had as a Gen Xer. When we take the time and we're intentional to have those conversations, especially with Gen Z, and we invite them into those conversations, all sorts of things flourish.
Now, there's some really amazing intentional generational diversity programs that happen in this country. I think Nestle has one, BMW, Ernst & Young, and they are generational diversity programs. And so we see things that happen to the bottom line of these companies. There's less absenteeism. There's higher productivity. There's higher satisfaction. All the good stuff that ignites our workplace makes it a culture that people want to be part of. And one of the things, when I work with leaders to go in and do culture assessments and decide what is needed from a generational perspective, I will say, "What's getting in your way of stewarding and mentoring particularly this youngest generation?" And they always say to me, "Keri, I don't have time." And I say, "You don't have time."
Wendy Fong:
Oh, no. Wrong answer.
Monique Akanbi:
Yes, I know, right?
Keri Mesropov:
Who have we ever met that says, "I have time." So I say, "Okay, let's step off the couch. Let's shake out the cushions. Let's find the time. Let's do a time audit."
Wendy Fong:
If you value something, you'll make the time.
Keri Mesropov:
Right, right. So how they interact is either, at first, speaking from the experience that I have in my business is it's usually "I don't have time." And it's usually I want something quick. I want just a quick Band-Aid or a piece of bubble gum to fix this problem, instead of the deep work that is involved in any culture changing and understanding that this generation is going to have the most lasting impact today on the workplace is sobering and gets people's attention to say, "Okay, I'm ready to spend the time. I'm ready to put the value on the time."
Monique Akanbi:
We hear about mentoring often, right, and we think of mentoring in the traditional sense, right, where it is the mentor is probably someone who is a little more experienced or has a little more tenure in their role within the workplace and the mentee is someone that is maybe of a junior level or just maybe novice or entry level within their role. What role does reverse mentoring play with the various generations within the workplace and how can employers benefit from reverse mentoring?
Keri Mesropov:
I love reverse mentoring and Gen Zers love that because it makes them feel what human beings need to feel and that is significant. And when we are early in our career hierarchically, we tend to be lower on the org chart. And so if you think about reverse mentoring just from that sort of fact, that one fact, how wonderful to help a person, a young person feel significant and recognized by saying, "I want to learn this from you. Help me understand this. Help me understand how you would approach this and problem solve it." So it, right away, changes a dynamic within an organization and within two people who might come from different generations, for sure. And I think about the benefit of getting that kind of mentorship to an older person. So if I were being mentored by a Gen Z, what an opportunity to help someone, again, become the best version of themselves. What wonderful legacy to have a fingerprint on a person that's young. That's incredible.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah, it sounds like a really helpful strategy to achieve what you were just talking about, how to create those relationships between the generations and provide that context for people to understand each other through reverse mentoring.
Keri Mesropov:
Totally.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. And you had mentioned some companies that are successful in having the generations work together. Can you share any of the strategies that have made them successful?
Keri Mesropov:
Reverse mentoring is one of them. I cannot remember the name of the company, it doesn't matter, but a big company that actually had a new product that they were developing and they purposefully attached two different generations to the project. So it was a younger generation and an older generation and they were very explicit and out loud about it. This is what we're doing and so we want you to work together on this project, which was a product, a product that was being developed and we want you to get the best of each other.
So first of all, discover what that means in terms of your generation. And the younger generation said, "Yes, we know how to market this product" and they were in the marketing department and so we know how to market this product to a younger generation. So in fact, they did that. It got out faster than the deadline expected it.
Wendy Fong:
Wow.
Keri Mesropov:
Yeah, it got out 15% sooner and the marketing exceeded the expectations of the projection by 23% and they attributed that to the forcing. I'm saying that with a face. But then it became a joyful experience of an accelerating what the company needed in terms of getting a product done on time. It was done before and seeing it be successful in terms of a sales perspective. And this team enjoyed each other, got to know each other at a very deep level.
Wendy Fong:
So it sounds like being intentional, right, and having those collaborative projects or opportunities for the different generations to work together.
Keri Mesropov:
Yeah, for sure.
Monique Akanbi:
Wendy, you mentioned there are six generations in the workplace and I'm curious, Keri, as it relates to inclusion and diversity, how HR leaders or just leaders in general in the workplace can adopt policies or maybe practices that addresses all generations in the workplace? And I know we are speaking in the context of Gen Z, so how do leaders keep policies and practices current with the various generations that are in their workplace and remain inclusive?
Keri Mesropov:
That's a great question. The first is to understand that the benefits in a company need to be flexible. And this is not just maybe at a generational level, but at a life stage level, right? So some of the best, most enlightened companies that I know about and work with are doing kind of a "choose your own" benefit program that acknowledges I'm at a stage in my life where I might need menopausal leave that acknowledges that young careerists need, based on the things we've already talked about and the deficits that they have, need learning deployments or learning sabbaticals to go off and learn soft skills or a particular skill that they need for a particular position.
And so I really love the sort of emerging trend that I'm seeing, at least in the client base I'm working with, that is acknowledging that we need different things at different stages of our life. Generations, especially this one, needs different things that are going to help them be the best version of themselves, including things like the learning sabbaticals like I described, including tuition reimbursement or tuition assistant. Chipotle Mexican Grill just launched something outstanding on that front about a year ago.
And so that I think how we as HR professionals take on a mindset that we need to be flexible and open and we need to be dynamic in thinking about things that we're offering, mindful of from when someone comes generationally and where they are in their life stage. I think we've got to be flexible. And if I'm being honest, oftentimes, aggregate, not everybody, but HR has a bad reputation sometimes of being all about compliance and always about being fair and equitable. Well, what's fair and equitable is to recognize that we all need different things in order to have impact and be thriving.
Monique Akanbi:
So I love that you mentioned, Keri, life stage benefits versus the traditional benefits because I can see as HR professionals, I know when I practiced HR and I actually worked for a benefits broker, trying to accommodate or find a package or benefit plan that addressed all of the generations or at least tried to address the common needs of my workforce. And so hearing it from a life stage standpoint because I think that that covers every generation, right? Because you can be a millennial caring for maybe a parent that is a traditionalist or a baby boomer or vice versa. So I love that you mentioned life stage benefits.
Keri Mesropov:
Yeah. It's the way of the future.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And it could benefit any generation, that flexibility.
Keri Mesropov:
Absolutely. Baby boomers, I want time, if they're still working and many of them still are, I want time off for grandparent leave. I have a grandchild coming into the world. That's a wonderful benefit that we haven't thought about yet.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah, there's a lot of different ways that HR can get creative and think outside the box.
Well, this has been a really insightful conversation, Keri, just learning about Gen Zs. They're coming into the workforce. And there's a lot of things that HR can do to help integrate all these different generations and make sure that everyone can collaborate successfully. And really, the business case, like you mentioned, is to increase productivity and really create a strong workplace culture too. So thank you for being on the podcast.
Keri Mesropov:
My pleasure. Thank you.
Wendy Fong:
That's all for this week's episode of Honest HR, and we just thank you all for joining us and we'll catch you next time.
Speaker 1:
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