Employee mental health is a subject that has been top of mind since the pandemic, but both employers and employees frequently have questions about how to best accommodate mental health conditions in the workplace. In this episode of Honest HR, host Amber Clayton is joined by Melanie Whetzel, principal consultant with the Job Accommodation Network (JAN), to provide answers to some of the most frequent questions from employees and employers about mental health accommodations and effectively supporting employees’ mental health needs; also, hear from SHRM senior researcher Daroon Jalil about SHRM's latest findings on mental health in the workplace.
Employee mental health is a subject that has been top of mind since the pandemic, but both employers and employees frequently have questions about how to best accommodate mental health conditions in the workplace. In this episode of Honest HR, host Amber Clayton is joined by Melanie Whetzel, principal consultant with the Job Accommodation Network (JAN), to provide answers to some of the most frequent questions from employees and employers about mental health accommodations and effectively supporting employees’ mental health needs; also, hear from SHRM senior researcher Daroon Jalil about SHRM's latest findings on mental health in the workplace.
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Monique Akanbi:
Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for HR professionals, people managers, and team leads, intent on growing our companies for the better.
Amber Clayton:
We bring you honest forward-thinking conversations and relatable stories from the workplace that challenge the way it's always been done. Because after all, you have to push back to move forward.
Wendy Fong:
Honest HR is a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. And by listening, you're helping create better workplaces and a better world. I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton.
Monique Akanbi:
And I'm Monique Akanbi. Now let's get honest.
Amber Clayton:
Hello everyone and welcome back. I'm your host, Amber Clayton, senior director of SHRM's Knowledge Center Operations. In our episode, we are going to discuss the technical competency, HR expertise, employee and labor relations. This podcast is approved to provide one PDC towards SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification if you listen to the full episode. Today, we are going to share SHRM's latest research on mental health, as well as discuss questions, the Job Accommodation Network, and SHRM's Knowledge Center receive related to this topic. I'm pleased to be joined today by Melanie Whetzel, principal consultant with the Job Accommodation Network, which I'm going to refer to as JAN throughout the podcast. And my colleague from SHRM, senior of researcher, Daroon Jalil. Welcome to the show, Melanie and Daroon.
Daroon Jalil:
Thank you.
Melanie Whetzel:
Thank you.
Amber Clayton:
Great. Well, before we get started, could you tell the audience a little bit about yourselves, and I'm going to go ahead and start with Melanie.
Melanie Whetzel:
Sure, sure. I am a principal consultant at JAN. I started 16 years ago. I came to JAN from being a special ed teacher. I taught in elementary school. I taught in high school, never really did middle school, but it was a natural progression to come to JAN. I was helping kids be successful in the classroom. Now I'm working to help adults with disabilities be successful in the workplace.
Amber Clayton:
Great. And I am going to say middle school students are hard. I remember when my daughter, she's going to be 20 this month. I do remember middle school and that was challenging. Definitely. So Melanie, for our listeners who may not be familiar with the Job Accommodation Network, JAN, could you tell us what it is? What the organization's about?
Melanie Whetzel:
Sure. We are a free service through the Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy. We are considered ADA specialists. More than that, really we're considered accommodation specialists. Like I said, it's a free service. Our main goal is to speak to employers and help them understand the ADA and how they can hire and retain employees with disabilities. We walk people through the accommodation process, what appropriate effective accommodations might be for lots of different situations. We work in teams, so when you contact us, depending on what the disability is, you'll get the team that works with that. So you're going to really get a specialist.
Our team is mental health, cognitive, and that includes all types of mental health conditions and cognitive disabilities. I said our main goal is to talk to employers, but we really help whoever contacts us. And that can be employees, it can be parents of employees, sometimes it's medical professionals who are trying to write documentation and want to do that correctly. We service providers, pretty much whoever calls. And I think that's why we have such a good background knowledge because we talk to so many different types of people coming from all different directions who need assistance.
Amber Clayton:
That's great. I know in the Knowledge Center, which I'll briefly talk about in a moment, we actually will oftentimes send people to JAN for consulting with regards to accommodations of their employees. So yes, we love JAN. Thank you.
Melanie Whetzel:
Thank you.
Amber Clayton:
Melanie, you've mentioned a couple of times the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. How is JAN and EEOC related? Are they partners or is there any kind of a relationship between the EEOC and JAN?
Melanie Whetzel:
I would say it's not a formal relationship, but yes there is. Our guidance fully comes from the EEOC. What we provide to employers and individuals who ever contact us is information from EEOC guidance. And if there are questions, we go right back to the EEOC and say, "Well, what about this? Can you clarify that? Because we're having some questions about this and it's not real clear." And so that's basically the relationship. We have training with the EEOC to better understand guidelines and when guidelines change.
Amber Clayton:
That's great. We actually will send the resources from the EEOC to our members as well when they have questions around disability accommodations. And I love all the resources that they have as well as what JAN has because I know JAN has some really great, it's easy to read. There's not a lot of jargon in there. It's easily understandable for anyone reading the resources on JAN's website. All right, great. Daroon, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Daroon Jalil:
Sure. Yeah. So hey, everyone. I'm really excited to be here today with you guys. My name is Daroon. It's like the color of maroon. It rhymes with maroon. I'm a senior researcher here at SHRM Research and I have a master's and a PhD in industrial-organizational psychology. And I specialize in all things related to employee health and well-being, I've actually worked with the SHRM Research department since 2019. I did a summer internship with them and then that turned into a part-time role where I've worked with them since then helping with research projects and initiatives. But I came on as a senior researcher once I finished my degree. And a lot of my research is around advocating for employees and making work more accessible. So I'm really excited to be talking about employee mental health and wellbeing today.
Amber Clayton:
Yes, thank you. And I did not realize that you were an intern. I think that's great. I love to hear and see when we have interns that end up becoming regular employees with SHRM, so that's awesome. I did not know that. All right, well, let's go ahead and jump right in to our topic today. Mental health issues are not new in the workplace, but during COVID-19, our research at the time had showed that one in four people felt alone, burned out and stressed. Mental health became top of mind for employers and it's still top of mind. And job seekers looked for employers with mental health benefits. So this became something that people were looking for when they were looking for a company to work for. And we often receive questions from members about how to handle a situation where they believe an employee may be depressed or anxious or they need help in determining what types of accommodations must be provided for an individual with a mental health issue.
And for our listeners who might not be familiar, the Knowledge Center, that's what I oversee at SHRM. It is a member benefit. We have a service called the Ask an Advisor Service where members can contact our experienced and knowledgeable HR advisors and ask any HR-related question. And this topic is no exception. We receive over 50,000 questions a year in the Knowledge Center. We also conduct the research, as Daroon mentioned, and Daroon has some information, the latest and greatest on this topic. So I'm going to start with you, Daroon. Can you just give us a brief summary of where we are relative to mental health issues today in the workplace?
Daroon Jalil:
Yeah, absolutely. So I'll try to keep it brief. So in our most recent research, we surveyed about 1,400 workers in January of 2024 to understand the current state of employee mental health. And what we found, I'd like to categorize as the good, the bad, and the ugly. So the good is that about a third of workers say that their job has had a positive impact on their mental health. And then when asked about their coworkers and managers, about half of workers say that their coworkers and managers have a positive impact on their mental health. And when we presented workers with a series of both positive and negative emotions, and we asked them how often their job made them feel those emotions, about 50% said their job often made them feel like they belong. And 40% said that their job often made them feel fulfilled. But on the flip side, we see that one in three workers, about 30%, said that their job often made them feel stressed.
One in four said that it often made them feel overwhelmed and one in five said that their job often made them feel anxious. So while the percentage of workers who feel these negative emotions often, so we're asking if they're experiencing these emotions often. So while the percentage is less for the negative emotions, negative emotions are often much more potent for an employee and it can be much harder to shake and move past those negative emotions. And we see that about 44% of workers say they feel burnt out from their work and specifically from their work. And workers who are burnt out from their work are nearly three times more likely to be actively searching for another job. And they're significantly less likely to go above and beyond what is expected of them at work. So that's why-
Amber Clayton:
We know that could have a trickle-down effect for other employees as well.
Daroon Jalil:
Yeah, absolutely. Those negative emotions can definitely, they're contagious. Emotions are contagious and they can spread across the team. And so that's not even the ugly. So the ugly is that 52% of workers, they feel pressured to prioritize their organization's wellbeing over their own personal wellbeing. So when we had asked workers if they had done any of the following behaviors specifically to protect their wellbeing in the past five years, we found that 22% of workers have left a job without having another one lined up to protect their wellbeing. 26% have pursued a different career and 34% have worked a job that paid less than what they could be making just to protect their wellbeing. So when we're talking about employee mental health at work, we really can't ignore the fact that employers have the power to either protect and promote employees' health and wellbeing or to harm and potentially exacerbate existing mental health issues that workers may already be facing.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. I was talking to a colleague yesterday about the workplace and being overworked, not necessarily me, but we were just talking in general about being overworked and overwhelmed and how unfortunately employees for the most part can be expendable. And you have to look at that and say, "I got to take care of myself. I got to take care of my wellbeing because if I can't do that, then I can't do this other job and I can't take care of my family." All of those things. So we were just kind of talking about that work-life integration and how mental health is, it's very important for both employers and employees.
Daroon Jalil:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's the phrase that you can't pour from an empty cup. Individuals definitely have to invest in themselves and work on their own personal wellbeing to be able to show up as their best selves in their various roles that they serve in their life.
Amber Clayton:
I like that saying, I might have to use that one. And I have to tell you, I use the good, the bad, the ugly when I talk about the jobs. I try to give our candidates when they're interested in becoming an advisor, I give them the good, the bad, the ugly, because I want them to be well-informed before they make any decision to come on board. So I love that phrase. Well, thank you, Daroon, for that information. And as we go through some of the questions and answers, feel free to jump in if we have any data around this particular topic. So now we're going to talk about the types of questions that JAN and the SHRM Knowledge Center receive from employers. And the first one is, what do we do when a disability is suspected based on performance and or conduct? Melanie, this is a common question. An employer notices that something's off with an employee, they suspect that the employee may have a mental issue, mental impairment. What guidance do you provide employers?
Melanie Whetzel:
Well, we say don't assume that. You can assume that, but don't move forward on that. Don't say anything to the employee about that. What you want to do is go to the employee and I always say gently and just have a conversation, "Hey, we've noticed this, we've noticed that. What's up? How do we help you?" That can be the same thing as saying, "Do you need an accommodation? How do we help you?" And it's good to point out what you have seen because we'll hear from individuals who will say, "My employer said that I'm not working up to snuff." I don't know what that means. And we don't know what that means either. And we've noticed your behavior's changed. Okay, what about the behavior's changed? If you're not getting your reports done on time, tell the employee that.
"We've noticed you're not getting your reports done on time. How do we help you with that? We've noticed that you're coming in late, you're looking like you're really tired, you're not your usual self. Can we help you with that? Is there something that we can do?" And then that gives the employee a safe place. And that's why I say do it gently, even if there are a lot of issues and you don't want to wait too late either. As soon as you can do that, it gives the employee the opportunity to realize, "Yes, I didn't realize my behavior was affecting my job," or "Maybe I didn't realize my performance was that low." And then it gives the employee the opportunity to make that connection to their medical condition or their disability and then disclose that information and then get some help. And then that's a win-win for both sides if the employee can get help and get back to working more successfully.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely. Oh, go ahead, Daroon.
Daroon Jalil:
Sorry. Yeah, I just wanted to hop in there and say in an ideal world, an employee would definitely disclose that information ahead of time, but there are often circumstances where employees don't feel comfortable enough to share that information. And we had found that 50% of workers don't feel comfortable using or asking for mental health resources that their organization provides. And when we ask them, "What are the consequences of discussing your mental health at work?" Or "What do you see when employees talk about their mental health at work, what happens?" And we found that 41% said that those employees are judged, 40% say that others gossip about them, and 44% say that they risk their reputation, and 35% say that they're less likely to get promoted.
So with negative consequences like this, there's almost an inherent risk that employees may face or that they may think, I don't really feel comfortable discussing my mental health at work because there's all of these consequences and so I'm not going to ask for accommodations or this isn't something I want to disclose. So it's something to definitely be mindful of for organizational culture and what an organization is promoting and just the vibes, what the vibes are at the organization and if people feel comfortable talking about their mental health.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, that's why empathy is just so important for leaders. And I'm very open about my own mental health issues with my employees because I want to be able to create a safe space for them to know that I understand, I've been there, I go to therapy, I've been on medication for depression and anxiety. I'm an open book, so I tend to share, but I understand people not wanting to, but I just want them to know that they can speak up and they can talk about it if they want to.
Melanie Whetzel:
And let me say too that sometimes when it's a mental health condition or cognitive, and that could be due to medication, sometimes the employees themselves don't realize how their condition is really affecting them at work. And it's really good when the employer can point that out again in a nice gentle way so that the employee is aware of that because sometimes they may not even be doing parts of their job because they're like a duck with their feet underwater. They're trying to keep up and they're not. And if that's pointed out to them, then they're able to get that assistance at work they need.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. Moving on, then this is another one we hear often. Well, here I have an employee who says that they need a special chair due to a disability, or they'll say, "I need to have a reduced schedule and I need to have off on Fridays." And the employer is asking, "Do we have provide the accommodation that the employee wants?" And so Melanie, who's the decision maker for reasonable accommodation request? And what types of accommodations can we offer or can the employer offer when they're unable to provide the one that the employee has requested?
Melanie Whetzel:
Okay, it is up to the employer to determine the accommodations, but they need to be effective. If it's not exactly what the employee asks for, it needs to be an effective alternate. And we coach employers to really go through that interactive process to find alternate accommodations. If they can't provide the one that the employee wants and what's the next best thing, what's the next closest thing? If you can't have every Friday off, is there another? And why? Why is it Friday? You can get the documentation that substantiates the need for that accommodation, and then you can look at, does a person need three days off in a row because of their disability and their fatigue?
Does it have to be Friday, Saturday, Sunday? Can it be that one week? Can it be Saturday, Sunday, Monday the next week? And I think the more conversation during that interactive process that the employer has with the employee, the more they're going to find out about what that need really is and understand more why they need that and not just, "Well, we're just not sure if you really need that, so we're not going to do it." You really want to find out what that need is, and if you really can't do it, then try to provide the next best thing.
Amber Clayton:
So basically, I'm not going to be able to buy that $10,000 chair with a massage and everything because I have back issues and get reimbursed.
Melanie Whetzel:
Right.
Amber Clayton:
We actually have heard that quite a bit where someone has asked for an ergonomic chair and it's really expensive and the employer's wondering if they have to pay for it. So thank you very much for providing guidance on that one. Sometimes there is a situation where an employer has never had to provide an accommodation before or had to provide a specific one. So there's concern of setting a precedent. So let's say if I allow Jane to work from home because of her disability, do I have to allow others? So Melanie, what do you suggest for employers here?
Melanie Whetzel:
We would say not look at that as setting a precedent. Look at that as just concentrate on Jane and what she needs right now. And if she has a medical reason, disability reason to work from home and it's determined that yes, she can do her job from home, this will work for Jane, then we can allow Jane to do that. Then I know employers are afraid of that. Before the pandemic, now that telework whole thing is crazy, but any accommodation, they're afraid, well, everybody's going to get wind of that, everybody's going to want that. Well, if somebody else needs that due to a disability, then they provide that documentation. They go through that interactive process with them, they determine the next person if they can work from home or they need the specific chair or whatever and determine, "Can we do it a second time?"
And they do that every single time until it gets to be, "Well, no, we can't have everybody working from home because somebody needs to be here. Three people need to be here to do the work." But we had this question yesterday.
Amber Clayton:
Really?
Melanie Whetzel:
We've adjusted schedules to a point that we can't adjust one more because somebody has to be here. Is that a fair assessment? And we say yes, look at is that considered an undue hardship when that last person says, "Hey, this is what I need." Because we have to have somebody working. We did it in good faith for the people that ask up unto a point. And then we have to look at our business need and the impact our business of having one more person not here on Friday or not here on Monday or working a reduced schedule or whatever that accommodation would be.
Amber Clayton:
And I can imagine the employers are thinking, am I at risk of a job discrimination issue if I've allowed these other employees to have these accommodations but now I'm saying this particular employee can?
Melanie Whetzel:
And we get a question about, is this discriminatory? We can't determine that. But what we will say is make sure you have good documentation of why you made the decisions that you did because that's what it goes back to. A lot of employers will call us and document that you call JAN because that shows you're making a good faith effort too. You tried to get some extra guidance, you didn't just make that decision on your own and in that document how that's going to affect your business, what your business need is and how providing that accommodation would adversely affect your business.
Amber Clayton:
And we're going to talk about the undue hardships here, surely. Daroon, did you have anything you wanted to contribute here?
Daroon Jalil:
We found something interesting, but it's not specific to accommodations as much as it is just to general mental health benefits. And we had found that 36% of workers who say that they would likely leave their current job if offered a new job with significantly better mental health benefits. So there are a sizeable portion of workers who are willing to leave their current position for a job that is willing to maybe potentially accommodate them. So it's something to consider like yes, precedent yes, potential undue hardship. It is definitely case by case, but there is other consequences aside from precedent that you have to consider that if this is something that a worker wants or that they need and they're not getting it, they're going to go somewhere else to find it. So think about what that potentially has of trying to fill that role, if that has any trickle-down effects to other employees who are going to leave. So just a lot to consider. It puts employers in a difficult position for sure.
Melanie Whetzel:
It does.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely. And just on that note, we've heard a lot of employers have had recruitment and retention issues over the last couple of years and offering enhanced or expanded mental health benefits can help you attract and retain those employees. So think about it that way too. It's not just about, "Oh, now I am going to have all these issues, people are going to need accommodations," and things like that. But this is something that can really benefit the employer and the employee.
Daroon Jalil:
These leave benefits can really benefit everyone. It's not just individuals with a specific health impairment or anyone with caregiving responsibilities, for example, would benefit from that. But to your point, Amber, about organizations wanting to offer all these additional mental health benefits, what we found was actually that, yeah, they definitely want benefits, but what employees are saying is that a lot of them are just unaware of what their organization even offers and they don't know what their organization offers, what they have access to. A lot of the benefits just feel very inaccessible. They say it's really hard to get in touch, "I don't even know who to ask." So I think before organizations spend a lot of money to try to do all of these various accommodations, they should just go back to the basics, "What are you offering? Do your employees even know what you're offering? How can what you currently offer potentially meet their needs before you go through this whole process of adding and spending a lot more money for something that may not add a lot of benefit?"
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. And doing an employee benefits survey with your employees to determine what they want can really help to customize those benefits because you just don't want to have blanket benefits out there because one benefit's not going to be appropriate or a beneficial to an employee and the other, so let's say I am an older person, my kids are gone. I'm an empty nester. I really don't need dependent care, but there are other employees within that population that might need it. So just looking at your employee population, your demographics and making some customizations is really beneficial to the employers and employees.
Daroon Jalil:
Yeah, I agree.
Amber Clayton:
So another question that we get often is, do we have to provide leave as a reasonable accommodation? And if so, how long do they get? Is that when you hear JAN often, Melanie?
Melanie Whetzel:
Yes. Yes, it is. And I think leave is one of those accommodations. It's really not very well understood because if accommodations are to help somebody work, an employer thinks, okay, then if I'll give you three months off, how's that helping you work? But it really can help somebody if they can get the care they need, the rest, they need the recuperation and come back and work. Indefinite leave, sometimes this is not helpful because the person doesn't come back and that hasn't been helpful to the employer. But yes, the employer does need to consider providing leave. And again, that's a case by case situation and that even within in one employer, it could be case by case. It could be by department. Not to sound unfair, but if there's a department with a lot more people, you might be able to allow somebody to have more leave than an department with two people.
If it's a seasonal business, a nursery right now, it's probably all hands on deck. Retailers are busy during the holidays, we can't give people lots of time off, we need them there working. But after the holidays, we can provide more leave. And so they really want to look at how much leave the person needs and is it possible to provide that? Is it going to create a hardship? And one of the EEOC examples is to say, "Okay, let's try it. Let's see if we can do this. And if we're not sure if it's going to cause a hardship or not, we're willing to try it. And then if it does create a hardship and we need you to come back, then we'll discuss that."
And employers can also look at, "Can we provide accommodations that could help you stay at work instead of needing leave?" What is it that not to interfere with their medical treatment at all, but are there stressful things that you're trying to get away from by having leave that you need to rest or recuperate from? How do we manage that? Can we do things to reduce that stress and anxiety in the workplace so that you can come and work effectively instead of needing that leave?
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. And indefinite leave is something that really could be considered an undue hardship on a business. So definitely thinking of some alternatives would be helpful.
Melanie Whetzel:
And also that leave that's unscheduled, and sometimes people with mental health conditions, they can't say, "I'm going to need next Tuesday off because I'm going to feel totally overwhelmed. They may not know till today that I need tomorrow off or this morning. I can't get up and get to work. I'm too overwhelmed." And depending on the job and what the work of the employer is, it might be difficult to handle those unscheduled absences, to schedule their work around that. And depending on how often those occur too.
Daroon Jalil:
When we had surveyed workers and for the workers that had said that their job had made them feel stressed or overwhelmed or anxious, we asked them what was the stressor and the most frequently cited stressor was workload. So that is something that potentially could be like she was saying that you could potentially reduce that and keep the employee, the employee can stay at work and you could reduce their workload, and then you're removing that stressor and keeping that employee there. So definitely something that could be done if done right.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. And helping them to prioritize the work too. Sometimes they feel like everything is urgent and it could be that you could work primarily on this project and this one can be on hold for right now. So there are opportunities to be able to help the employer with their workload too, but definitely something that employers should be aware of and making sure that they're not burning the employee out. All right. So we get questions, like I mentioned, about undue hardship. For instance, an employer will say that they can't make accommodations because of staffing needs, like you mentioned, Melanie. So they'll ask if that qualifies as an undue hardship. So could you tell us, Melanie, about undue hardship and what kind of guidance you give employers around that?
Melanie Whetzel:
Okay, it's really kind of a high bar to meet if something's too expensive, too disruptive or would change the nature of the business. And it's really up to the employer to determine that. They don't always like that answer because they want us to help them determine that, but it is dependent on their business need and the impact that those accommodations are going to have on the operation of their facility. One example that always comes to mind is a person who had anxiety, who worked on a production line and asked for the accommodation of just breaks whenever I feel like it to just walk away and they said, "Absolutely not. We have to shut the whole production line down and then wait, that's not going to work in this position. Let's look at if we can find you another position where it would be a little bit more doable for you to have breaks as you need them. Are there other things that we can do to reduce that stress and anxiety so you don't need the breaks like that?"
That's a good example of an undue hardship when it comes to disruptive, something that's disruptive in the workplace. A lot of it comes back to leave. What's a hardship when it comes to leave? And there is an EEOC guidance that talks about leave, that gives several points about that, and it's looking at what we've already discussed. Is it indefinite? How frequent is it? Sometimes the doctor will write a note that says this person's going to need to leave two days a month because they feel overwhelmed and their anxiety will be exacerbated and the employer's like, "Well, I think we can do that." And then it ends up being two days a week, which is a little different than what they had originally thought depending on the job.
And so it depends on how that affects other workers too. If somebody's out two days a week, then who picks up that work? Sometimes the managers themselves pick up that work and they can't continue to do that and then manage, do their own work and do someone else's work too. If it affects the clients and the ability to serve clients or customers, that would factor into it too. I think it's a pretty complicated system to figure out. But again, what we would say is you want to make sure you document your decisions, how you see that affecting the workplace and not morale, not employee morale. That shouldn't factor into it.
The employer can make that decision, "While so-and-so's out, you're going to be doing X, Y, and Z because you can handle this. It's not too much work for you." Now if somebody's out a long time and it's a lot of work, that may be a different thing, but it is up to the employer to determine how much work somebody else picks up. But that can be the hardship too, if it overburdens coworkers, if it overburdens the manager. But again, documenting that so you can go back and show here's how we made that decision based on our business need.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if they are having to hire from a temporary agency, we know the cost of that can be higher sometimes than the employee's salary. So if there is that heavy financial burden on the company, that could potentially be an undue hardship. Now if they have people who can work in their place or take their responsibilities for a specific period of time, then that may not be seen as an undue hardship. But you're right, it's definitely different based on the organization and the task and what they do. Okay, so now that we've covered some of the common questions that employers have asked, what are employees asking? Now, I'll tell you in the Knowledge Center we only get questions from the employers. Sometimes we'll get questions that are about them as employees, but most of the time it's about employers that are calling about a situation that's happening with employees within their organization.
But as you mentioned, you get employees and you get physicians calling JAN. So I want to just talk a little bit about those. I think it's helpful for our listeners who are probably HR professionals, I think HR professionals, everybody, but many of them who are managers or employers that are working with these employees. I think it's important for them to hear what the employees are asking. So one of the questions that I think is a common question for JAN and you can confirm for me is my doctor told my employer what I need and they're not following it. So what kind of guidance would you give the employee if the employer says, "Nope, sorry, I can't do that," and that's it.
Melanie Whetzel:
So yes, we do get that question a lot from employees, but we also get that question from employers who say, "The individual, the employee has a little different opinion of this. How does this work? Aren't we the ones who determine accommodations?" Yes, the doctor's role is to document the disability and the limitations. They may have some good ideas for accommodations, but it's not their job to dictate those accommodations to the employer. A lot of times employers can benefit from having accommodation ideas from the doctor, but the doctor doesn't know the workplace, the doctor doesn't really know the employee's job like the employer does or what's going to work at that time in that department. So yes. And sometimes what we're seeing is that the doctor just writes what the accommodation is, employee needs to telework a hundred percent, but they don't give any background information, any information about the limitations so that the employer doesn't have anything else to work with.
"Well, if we can't allow you to telework a hundred percent because you need to be in the office two days a week because you have work to do, we are not sure how to accommodate that." And so it's really important to have that conversation, even go back and get clarification from the doctor as to what are the issues that the employee can't come into the office. Again, let's look at how we reduce that stress and anxiety or whatever those issues are in the workplace so that employee can come in to work those two days. But yes, it is up to the employer to determine the accommodations and they need to be effective though. They can't just say, "Well, we're not doing that, we're doing this." They need to be effective. And that's why that interactive process is so important.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. And there's no federal form or state form that I'm aware of that an employer can use or provide to the employee to give to their doctor to fill it similar to what they might have under the Family Medical Leave Act, the FMLA. But there are, for instance, we have sample forms that employers can use or members can use that has certain information that's collected from the physician. You could also attach the job description because that's really helpful for the physicians to be able to see what is the job before they actually say this person needs X, Y, Z. So that could be helpful too.
Melanie Whetzel:
Exactly. Yeah, we have some sample forms too, and I think good guidance is to talk to the employee as much as possible too and really find out what's going on. And sometimes the employees are not as willing to talk to the employer. They dig their feet in sometimes and they want one thing and they don't really want to talk about other options. And we always try to talk to employees and say, "You want to be cooperative? Don't dig your heels in, talk about it, give it a chance, make a good faith effort like the employer's trying to make a good faith effort."
Amber Clayton:
Yeah. And employers actually are sometimes hesitant to ask about these things. They're concerned that if they ask, it's going to be considered discrimination or they might feel like they're retaliating its employee. I think what's important for employers to know is that in that process, that interactive process, they should be asking about the medical that has to do with work and not like the employee's medical history. So they shouldn't be asking more than what they actually need to determine how they can provide a reasonable accommodation for the employee.
Melanie Whetzel:
Exactly. That subjective medical documentation of what's going on right now and how that disability affects the person's ability to do the job.
Amber Clayton:
And one of the questions that we've gotten to is can we share the information with the employee's manager? As an HR professional, can we share that information? Can you talk a little bit about the confidentiality of this type of information?
Melanie Whetzel:
Yeah, that medical information is highly confidential and should be kept in a separate log to play, separate folder than just like an HR folder or anybody who would get in there would have access to that. And it really should not be shared with a supervisor or manager, the medical documentation, the medical condition, the diagnosis, anything like that. A lot of times employees will give that information out, then they're kind of upset that the supervisor knows about that and questions it. But the employer cannot do that. Absolutely not. What they can do though is include the supervisor manager in the accommodation process because a lot of times that's going to be vital to knowing what's going to work, some other ideas for accommodations. If somebody's going to have an adjusted schedule and start coming in at 9:30 instead of 9, that supervisor's going to need to know that to know what's going on.
But they don't need to know the medical condition. They might need to know that somebody needs a checklist because they're having some memory issues, but they don't need to know why those memory issues are going on. There's a lot of limitations that are kind of more broad and not indicative of a certain kind of diagnosis or medical condition. But no, the guidance says that they may be notified, and that's for part of the accommodation process that involves determining effective accommodations.
Amber Clayton:
Another question that we've gotten is I gave my employer my request for accommodation and I haven't heard anything. It's been a couple of weeks. So is there a timeframe for which an employer needs to respond to the request?
Melanie Whetzel:
In the federal government, there is a timeframe. Otherwise, under the ADA, there is not. The ADA gives no guidance except that it should be done expeditiously, which just means quickly. It's a nice bigger word, just quickly. And really the important thing is the communication, get back to the employee, say, "We received your request, we're looking into it. It's going to our HR specialist," whatever your process is so that the person knows, because I think the worst thing is they're left hanging. I did that disclosure, I gave out personal information, which can be very difficult for somebody. I don't know what happened to it. I don't know where the process is. And that can cause way more anxiety than the person originally had and that an employer does not want to do that. They don't want to do things that are going to increase anxiety for people with mental health conditions.
They want to be sure to communicate. If it's something easy, "Yeah, we're looking at this, we think we can get this going soon." Or if it's specialized equipment, "We're looking into it, we have to order. We're not sure what the best product is, we're going to have to go through a process." But at least then the employee knows what's going on because that just to be left hanging after you've kind of bared your soul and then you don't know anything that's happening is not good. So we would say that communication really needs to be prompt and thorough.
Amber Clayton:
And so what if the employer, again, this is probably a question that you get, my employer denied my request for accommodation, what can I do?
Melanie Whetzel:
Well, we would say, "Did they give you a reason? Do you know why? If not, go back and ask why was that denied?" Because there may be a really good reason the employer's not required to tell, except for certain agencies in federal government. The employer's not required to come back and say, "Well, here's why we didn't deny." A lot of times they do, but a lot of times they don't. Find out. Maybe didn't provide enough medical documentation, maybe they didn't see why it was necessary. Maybe they just don't have an understanding because you can't really do anything about that effectively if you don't know what the reason was. And we say the more information you have, the more you have to go back and counter their denial with.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, I mean for me, I feel like employers need to be transparent and openly communicate with employees because that's what's going to create that trust and that safe space and just the understanding and being able to work together. I don't know why an employer would not share that with an employee. That's unfortunate.
Melanie Whetzel:
Well, and sometimes they just stop the process and they really should not do that. That process should continue and they should let the person know, "We can't do this specific accommodation you asked for," like we were talking about earlier, "But let's talk about what we might be able to do. Let's talk about what some alternatives are." And that way that process continues and they're making a good faith effort to look about accommodating the individual or the employee.
And then the employee would know why that accommodation isn't going to work and they know how to go about talking to the employer. Maybe they didn't give enough information. Maybe the employer doesn't understand how important that accommodation would be to them. Maybe they could have the chance to say, "Well, can we do it on a trial basis? And let me show you how well this would work and let's meet back after a month. And if it hasn't made a difference, then we can talk about something else." But if the employee doesn't have that opportunity and the employer just shuts that down, then it's just shut down. And really that process needs to continue so that alternate ones can be looked at.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, I would perceive that as the employer doesn't care about me, so why should I care about them? I'm out. That's unfortunate. But I mean, that's how I feel. So lastly, shouldn't my employer adjust my goals since my disability prevents me from meeting them?
Melanie Whetzel:
Oh my. That's a big one that we get and we'll get the same question over and over and over from the same person. Sometimes they just don't understand. According to the EEOC, an employer can expect the same performance and conduct from an employee with a disability that they do from anybody else as long as they hold all employees to that same standard. If they let other employees perform at a lower level for whatever reason, they have a sickness in their family, their caregiver, whatever reason, then they would have to allow somebody with a disability to have a lower performance standard or conduct standard.
But if they hold everybody to that same standard and they say, "You have to meet this," then the person with a disability can be expected to meet that as well. The difference is that then they look at how do we accommodate you to help you meet that instead of reducing that standard or eliminating an essential function, we're going to help you so you can do that function. Then that's what that interactive process is. Let's sit down and talk about that. What can we do so that you can get this work done on time? How do we help you get your reports done on Fridays instead of you turning them in the next month? Do you need a template? Do you need more information to put into those reports? That kind of a process to help the employee so they can meet and work up to that standard.
Amber Clayton:
Great. Can you tell us the differences between mental impairment, mental... I know there's differences between mental impairment, mental... What's another word other than mental health conditions? I mean, you probably hear different terminology used different ways. Can you tell us what's the difference here?
Melanie Whetzel:
Well, we're getting away from using impairment. That is used in ADA language. The definition of disability is a person with a physical or mental impairment. That's the definition of the ADA, and that's why we use that language. A lot of people don't like that. It sounds more negative. And so we have changed some of our language to include mental health conditions rather than a mental health impairment. Now, we also use limitations when we talk about it because that's also part of the definition, limitations that a person needs to have substantial limitations. And that can be viewed as negative too. But one of the things that we find is the guidance that we give is because there are issues in the workplace. People don't call us because everything's great and wonderful. They call us because there's an issue with an employee they're trying to help. Somebody's having great difficulty.
And so we talk about those limitations because that's how you determine accommodations. Let's look at three people with bipolar disorder or six people who have autism that are on the autism spectrum. Their needs can be way different. And so it's important to know those limitations because that's what the accommodations come from. Let's say somebody says, "Well, I have bipolar disorder and I need accommodations." That doesn't tell the employer very much at all. But if, let's say, I have bipolar disorder and I find it really difficult to concentrate in a busy open work environment, and I have difficulty sometimes answering questions on the fly in a group, that's going to give the employer a lot more information on how that person functions and what they need in the workplace. And so it's not that we want to focus on negatives or limitations, but that's where the accommodations come from.
If somebody doesn't have limitations, and then everybody with a disability needs accommodations, not everybody with mental health condition needs accommodations, and they need different accommodations at different times. They need different levels of those accommodations. And so that's why it's important to know what those difficulties or what those concerns in the workplace are. But sometimes it does come across as kind of negative. But in order to help somebody, you really have to know what's going on in the workplace. And that's one of the questions we ask is what are the greatest difficulties that the employee's having? Because that's how we help determine, "Okay, then let's talk about this to help come up with effective accommodations."
Amber Clayton:
Great, thank you. And Daroon, did we have any research that talked about or defined the terms that we just talked about, or did we ask about specific mental health conditions?
Daroon Jalil:
So for the most part, we try to keep this survey more general just because an individual may be struggling with certain things, but they haven't had the ability or the access to get a formal diagnosis. So we didn't want to limit it in that way. But we did ask employees, "Are you currently dealing with any of the following?" And we provided a list and we found that of those workers, 49% said that they're dealing with anxiety, and 32% said that they're dealing with depression. So it's a very sizable portion of the workforce that is struggling with these things. So this isn't something super niche that we're talking about, a very niche, small population of workers. A lot of workers need some type of help to do the work that they need to do.
Amber Clayton:
Before we wrap up the show, any last words, tips, experiences that you'd like to share with our listeners?
Melanie Whetzel:
I would just like to say for employers to have an open mind and to work with the employee. The communication, again, I'm going to stress that. I think that's so important is to not let employees hang and not know what's going on. Try to be as cooperative as possible. We're big proponents of trial accommodations. If you're not sure if something's going to work, can you try it to see if it'll work? And then if it doesn't, then you know, you have that proof, "Hey, this isn't going to work. It's not effective for us. Let's go on, move on to something else." Because sometimes it might work. When the pandemic first started and all these employees went home to work, we heard from employers who said, "We never would've believed that telework would've worked. Now that we're seeing it, we understand how it worked." And that same thing can be applied to a lot of different types of accommodations, I think.
Try it, have an end date. Let's try it for two weeks. Let's try it for a month. Give it enough time for the employee to show whether it would be successful or not. Make sure the employee understands that it's temporary and make a good faith effort to try to see if that would work. But I think the communication piece and to be approachable. Employees see how other employees are treated in the workplace. And so they're hesitant because they'll say to us, "Well, I saw what happened when so-and-so asked, and I don't want that to happen to me." And so it's not that you don't want people coming forward. It's not that you don't want to provide accommodations, it's that we want to do the best we can to help all of our employees be the best that they can be. And we need to hear from them.
We need to know what those issues are, and we want to be approachable. We want people to be able to come to their supervisor and say, "Hey, I'm having an issue with this. Can you help me?" It's so much easier than trying to hide it or being afraid to say anything about it. And then performance falling, conduct changing. It's so much easier if the employees feel open to talk about it with their employers. And that has to come from the employer too, to have that open, honest atmosphere where they want to talk about those things. They want the employees to come to them.
Amber Clayton:
Great. Thank you. Daroon?
Daroon Jalil:
This isn't from a SHRM Research perspective, but just personally, one thing that was running through my mind as we were having this discussion is that this interactive process and to finally be able to get an accommodation is best case scenario. There are so many times when that doesn't even happen because it requires a harmony between so many different people. For example, my mom, she had a short-term disability, and she doesn't speak English very well. So I had to go and be her interpreter and work with the doctor and work with her employer. And just to get a doctor's note requires so many phone calls and to get access to that doctor, and then trying to figure out what the employer provides, and then the employer would say, "Oh, actually we need something different from the doctor." And then to go back to the doctor and then wait there.
And then the whole process is just such an excruciating process at best. And so it's just something to, I guess, consider is that... And oftentimes the people that need these accommodations may be the ones that this process becomes even worse for, because I'm struggling with my mental health or I am having these bad days. So for me to go through this proactive process and to put myself in these situations where I need to talk to my doctor and make myself vulnerable in this way, it can be really difficult. So sometimes the people who need the accommodations the most are the ones who aren't getting it because this process can be so difficult. So I understand the need for this process, absolutely, and the need for documentation and for all of these players to be involved, but just something that shouldn't be lost on us is that for someone to even get an accommodation is best case scenario. I feel like maybe the people who need the accommodations the most are the ones that aren't getting it for a variety of reasons. That makes it very inaccessible for them.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that goes back to what I mentioned earlier is having that empathy and being able to say, "This employee is having these issues. What if I was in their shoes? How would I handle this and how can I support them and how can I be there for them?" Because it really makes for a more trusting, open, committed employee, somebody who wants to continue to work for you if you really care about them. And so I think that's really important.
Daroon Jalil:
Absolutely. I mean, it's a relationship. At the end of the day, it's a relationship between two people. The relationship between an employer and an employee is still a relationship. So the way the person is treated, you reciprocate that. And so if they're treated with respect and kindness, you'll see that from the employee. So just something to be mindful of.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is great. I really appreciate the both of you joining me today. And with that, we've come to the end of our show. For listeners who are members of SHRM, you can find resources specific to this topic on shrm.org. You can also contact SHRM's Knowledge Center and ask one of our HR advisors for assistance at shrm.org/hrhelp. And of course, you can contact JAN. What's the best number or contact information for listeners?
Melanie Whetzel:
You can call at 800-526-7234. We have an online chat that has become increasingly popular. Yesterday, that chat was on fire. And we also have an email. If you want to be able to take time and write it out, and you can send an email. And that's all on our website at askjan.org.
Amber Clayton:
Askjan.org. Great. Well, thank you both for participating. Oh, one thing I want to mention before we go is we have the People Manager Qualification at SHRM. We actually are working on a mental health episode of The PMQ, so look for that in the near future. If you're interested, again, just go to shrm.org for more information. And for our listeners, a reminder that this podcast is approved to provide one PDC towards SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification if you listen to the full episode.
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