<p>Join Callie as she and Cristian discuss dabbling in the HR profession in a rotational program. They talk about how you're able to figure out what you like, how Cristian used a spreadsheet to track and target rotational programs when he was getting an MBA and how the program can feel like a really long interview.<br /><br /><br /></p>
Join Callie as she and Cristian discuss dabbling in the HR profession in a rotational program. They talk about how you're able to figure out what you like, how Cristian used a spreadsheet to track and target rotational programs when he was getting an MBA and how the program can feel like a really long interview.
Speaker 1:
Hi everyone, and welcome back to Honest HR. We're back with another episode and we're talking all things hashtag HR. This week's topic is about the various ways we find ourselves entering the HR profession. As some of us gracefully enter, as if we knew we'd always be here, I will admit that was not me, but others like me look into HR. No matter how you find yourself here or in HR, we're glad you did and we're pumped that you've decided to add us as part of your journey. Today's guest is Cristian Chis, who found us on our LinkedIn page, SHRM Young Professionals. I had an opportunity to chat with Cristian, and I'm really excited to have him here to tell his story about how he got into HR, because I think it's going to help some of our listeners think differently about how they enter into the HR profession. So Cristian, welcome. I'm so excited to continue-
Cristian Chis:
Thank you.
Speaker 1:
... our conversation. But first, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Cristian Chis:
Sure. Thanks so much for the invite. That it's great to be here. Yep. As you said, my name is Cristian. I currently live in New York city with my wife. Next month, we'll be celebrating our one year wedding anniversary. So-
Speaker 1:
Woohoo.
Cristian Chis:
...we've enjoyed spending our first year of marriage in New York city. It's a city that always surprises you and you don't feel like you've ever mastered. So we've been in New York, as I said for about a year. I currently work at Citigroup in HR. I'm part of a rotational program that I'm happy to talk more about. And I graduated with my MBA last year from Duke University.
Speaker 1:
Super. I appreciate you sharing with us your marriage and being in New York. I've never been. I'm a little bit jealous. I know it's on my bucket list for sure. And actually, that's not true. Now that I think about it out loud. I went when I was really young, but does that really mean you went [inaudible 00:02:11]
Cristian Chis:
You're due forever then. You are due for another one.
Speaker 1:
I am. I am. I am. Well again, thank you so much for sharing that and hello to your wife. Little shout out. Thanks again for being here today. I asked you to share where you went to school and wanted to expand on that a little bit. I get asked a lot by students and/or young professionals in HR about whether they should go on for their graduate degree. And I have not gone on for my graduate degree, although I haven't ruled it out just yet. But since I don't have the insight into why somebody would continue on their graduate degree, I would love to hear from you the 'why' behind your decision to continue your education, if you don't mind.
Cristian Chis:
Yeah, sure. Of course. So honestly, I didn't really think about pursuing a career in HR when I was considering applying to business school. So this was a few years ago, I was living in Europe at that time and I was running the small company that I had started and it was an educational company that was offering test prep, educational consulting, and tutoring services. So I had tasted what entrepreneurship was really like. I was seeing how you can grow a company from nothing to something. And then I realized that an education in business would be well fitting for me at that time.
So it was something that started coming to my mind at that point, and I thought more and more about acquiring an MBA. So it wasn't to pursue a career in HR. I certainly had my interest in HR given the things that I was doing, but I didn't go to business school with the idea that I would come out pursuing an HR career. So my reason for going to business school was really just to get that well-rounded business education that would enable me to pursue various areas and would expand my horizon of possibilities.
Speaker 1:
I love that. Did you take time off between your undergraduate and your graduate to pursue that entrepreneurship you mentioned?
Cristian Chis:
Yes. Yeah. So most business schools want to see at least a few years full-time work experience, usually anywhere from three to four minimum. So that's something that you want to keep in mind if you're looking to go to business school and pursue an MBA. Some other master's level programs don't require that, but business schools do require years of experience. So yes, between my college graduation and entering business school, I spent about three, three and a half years working full time.
Speaker 1:
Very cool. That I did not know about the requirements. And again, probably because I haven't gone on to school or taken the path down to graduate school yet, although it is not ruled out for me. It's something I continue to think about, probably because people keep asking me for my opinion. But I will say that although I haven't made the decision to go on for my graduate degree, I have found a way to continue learning, and that is through a certification process.
So I have recently decided to study for, and eventually sit for the SHRM-SCP. So although it's not a graduate degree, it still gets me thinking about geez, education and studying is hard. So I give you a lot of credit for getting that MBA. And would you say... Now, I think my next question here is perfect for what you just shared. Do you think getting that master's degree, and maybe they've told you this to your face, was that an integral reason that you were hired for the role that you're in with Citigroup?
Cristian Chis:
Honestly, I can say yes because they recruit directly out of business schools for this program. So I can talk more about the program that I'm in and how they recruit students, because they essentially have two branches of the program. One is at the analyst level and that's where they recruit directly out of undergrad. And then the other arm is at the associate level. And that's where they recruit mostly out of business schools. Some students come from HR masters programs, but they recruit directly from schools, whether it be colleges for the analyst program or business schools/HR master's programs for the associate program. So yes, had I not gone to business school, I wouldn't have been able to be part of this program, but this is specific to Citigroup's HR rotational program. I'm sure other companies have similar approaches, but I'm sure others have slightly different approaches as well.
Speaker 1:
So I was astounded, when you and I were having a conversation about the program that you're part of. I didn't graduate all that long ago from college. And the people who know me will be rolling their eyes because it really wasn't that long ago, but I didn't even know rotational programs existed. And I know they existed at that time, but I just don't think they had trickled into my college existence or conversation at that time. So I am very intrigued by the program that you're a part of, mainly because you get exposure to a bunch of different areas of HR, which is going to help you decide where you want to take your journey. Right?
Cristian Chis:
Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1:
So tell us a little bit about the program so that others can be informed that this is an option for them upon graduation or upon, really, any point in their career. Maybe not at Citigroup, but at other organizations that have this sort of program.
Cristian Chis:
Yeah, totally. So I would just actually introduced this by saying that more and more companies are doing this. I've been seeing this trend over the last few years, even while in business school. I saw more and more companies, medium to large embarking on this journey of launching HR development programs. So whether they're in the pharmaceutical space or in the financial services industry, you see companies incorporating these types of programs into their early career development.
So the program at Citi specifically consists of two, one year rotations in HR. And as I mentioned, they have two branches of the program. One is focused on the analyst, so at the undergrad level. And the other is focused on associates at the business school or HR master's level program. And the way the program encourages its participants to think about these two rotations is to ideally embark on one HR business partner rotation and then one specialist rotation, so that by the time you are done with the program, you will have had these two very different experiences.
And I think a big feature of the program that needs to be mentioned is that they usually place a very heavy emphasis on networking and interacting with a variety of stakeholders. And this is great because it exposes you to a lot of senior leaders in the company, a lot of senior leaders in HR, and you get exposure early on that you wouldn't have probably gotten otherwise. So specifically for Citi, because the program is so well established, it's been running for, I think it's more than two decades. It has a great reputation so the various teams in HR are always eager to have either analyst or associate join them. So they've mastered this process of working with both associates and analysts and getting them quickly integrated into their teams. So for all these reasons, I think it's a great way to start your career post school, whether it's post-college or post business school.
Speaker 1:
Obviously, if this has been running for two decades, this is a very, very formal program, is that fair to say?
Cristian Chis:
It is. In a way it is, yes. Usually, programs at bigger companies will have dedicated support. So they usually have at least one, if not two program managers, depending on the size of the program, who manage the entire life cycle of the program from marketing the program to the schools, recruiting individuals into the program, and then taking the individuals throughout their two years at the company.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And the reason that I ask that is because we did a podcast episode earlier with Drew Cherry about the HR department of one. And so it's just so funny to me to have the contrast between an individual who literally wears all hats and then you at an organization that has this opportunity to specialize and pick a function for a year and learn it and master it and then move on and learn all of these facets of HR, becoming an expert in one facet, then moving on to another one. So it's interesting to me to see the differences. And the reason that I asked about the formality around this program is because I imagine people listening to this episode will say, "How can I do something like this at my organization?"
And the reality of it is that some organizations just can't. They just don't have the resources. They don't have enough people in each department to train you for a year and then lose you after that. Cause during the year, you're becoming responsible for some things. And like I said, you're becoming an expert in some things and then to move on in a smaller organization is difficult. So I imagine that the formality of this program works for Citigroup and has for, like you said, decades, but for the people out there that are eager for something like this, make sure that before you start asking questions about how to build this program and whether or not this program is right for you, understand if it can function and be sustainable in the organization-
Cristian Chis:
Totally.
Speaker 1:
...first before actually jumping into it.
Cristian Chis:
Yes, totally. And just one point to that is try as much as possible to understand the history of the program because that gives the program credibility. If the program is well established at the company, if it's gone through generations of students and participants and it's gotten a really good reputation of the company, then you're going to be very well placed and you're going to have a good start of your career versus having a program that maybe just launched last year. I think there are pros and cons to that too, but there are obviously some cons when it comes to its lack of credibility, its lack of history. And that program might just disappear the next year, just as easily as it came into existence. So keep that in mind when you're looking at various companies, ask for a quick history of the program and try to gauge from that how established the program is.
Speaker 1:
I like that. It sounds like this Citigroup recruits at the college and university level. So did you know that a rotational program was going to be something that you were pursuing?
Cristian Chis:
Yes. So when I joined the MBA program at Duke, I started learning more and more about rotational programs since they happen in a variety of functions and parts of the business. And so this was something that I became aware of in my first semester of business school. And then I started realizing that HR also has these rotational programs and started to inquire about them, connected to alumni of the university that were in such programs or graduated from such programs, so that's how I even got connected. The Citigroup program is through some of the Duke MBA alumni who were working at Citi and started telling me about the benefits of the program. Then they referred me to other individuals at Citi. So by the time that I applied and interviewed at Citi, I had already spoken to a host of individuals at the company. And I was very well versed in what the program entails, what its benefits are, and I felt like it was something that I wanted to commit to.
Speaker 1:
And in your experience at Duke, so knowing that this is a conversation that you had very early on in your degree program, how were you doing your research on which companies had these rotational programs? And I ask that because I'm sure that our listeners are sitting there and saying, "I would love to do a little bit more research about these programs." Can I find it on the company's website or is there a database or something that they can access to see which companies support these sort of robust programs. So any insight into that?
Cristian Chis:
No, totally. I can empathize with those thoughts and questions. So usually there are a few companies that recruit directly on campus, and it was the case for Duke as well. It had a few companies that had HR development programs and as a result of that, of their interaction with the campus teams, I found out about them through the campus activities. But honestly, for a majority of the programs, I found out about them by just Googling. So I would spend hours searching for such programs, connecting with individuals who either were part of such programs or had graduated from such programs. I made my own spreadsheet with HR development programs to keep track of the different companies that had them. But yeah, it's definitely something that you can search online. Companies will make note of that on their websites, usually under their university careers or career section, broadly speaking. But yes, apart from the very few companies that do come on campus and interact with students directly, a majority of the companies will have information online that is readily available to anyone who's looking for them.
Speaker 1:
That's great. And I think it's incredible that you had a Excel spreadsheet and I'm laughing because Excel is life. Right? All I do so much in Excel, but to have an Excel spreadsheet, tracking these programs, because I imagine they're pretty competitive too.
Cristian Chis:
Yeah. They are.
Speaker 1:
If there's only a few organizations that come on site to recruit, I would imagine that it's a pretty competitive process.
Cristian Chis:
Yes, totally. And just another, maybe, quick tip. So when you're searching for such programs, broaden your keywords. So I would recommend things like HR development programs or HR leadership development programs or even HR associate or analyst programs. So there are a variety of names for these programs that the companies use, so make sure you use different combinations of these terms to find programs. But I would say it's safe bet to assume that a large multinational company will likely have a program like the one that Citi has.
Speaker 1:
And I would imagine if they have this program and it's robust, like the one Citi group has, they'll want to tout it a little bit on their website too. So I like the idea of trying different combinations of programs and titles and those sorts of things because I think you're right. You'll find it in a different way on many different websites, so I really appreciate you sharing everything about the process of finding these programs and then obviously being a part of it now as you are. And I want to ask you a question that really requires or lets your personal bias shine through a bit. So what do you think the benefits are to you and to your career of this program, just being a part of it?
Cristian Chis:
Yeah, totally. I think there's several great benefits. The first being that you have dedicated program support throughout your first two years of the company. So I mentioned this, that most of these programs will have a program manager that is responsible for the entire life cycle of the participants. And this is, again, a great attribute of such programs because you join a huge company like Citi and it can be overwhelming, especially when you join right out of school. So having dedicated program support enables you to navigate the organization more easily than you would otherwise do. Another big attribute of such programs is the exposure that you gain to the leadership, both business and HR leadership.
Usually, programs run all kinds of events throughout the year. They bring in speakers to meet the participants. They have webinars. They might have newsletters. So it gives you a great opportunity to meet senior leaders across the firm and specifically in the HR function. And when you're on program, you almost have this not a special status, but you have a unique status that allows you to meet people much more easily than you might otherwise do. And then honestly, the other big benefit of such programs is the fact that it exposes you to a whole host of areas of HR, some that you might always have wanted to experiment and others actually, you might have never thought of.
So it allows you to experiment in different areas of HR and knowing that you have this one year timeline. So knowing that even if you don't particularly enjoy one area, it's finite. You know that next year you will switch to a new role so it's almost like a risk free approach to testing different parts of HR. And I think it's great because you can do that. And by the time you are done with the program, you will have seen two, maybe even three different parts of HR and you will have had again, two, maybe three different roles in HR. So these are the benefits that programs such as just the one I'm part of have.
Speaker 1:
What three areas have you... I think you've only done two and you're going to start a third year. So what three areas are you focusing on for the program?
Cristian Chis:
Yeah, so why I say possibly three is because obviously, the two areas are going to be part of your two year program experience. So you're going to have a one year HR business partner rotation, which I had, and I switched now into my second rotation, which is executive compensation. So very different from what I was doing in my previous rotation. And then why I say three is that oftentimes when this rotation ends, most individuals end up taking a third role altogether in a different part of HR. So you have your HR business partner role, you have your specialist role, and then your third role rolling off program can be either in a specialist part of HR or back into an business partner role. So that's why I say you can have even up to three during your first two and a half, basically, three years at the company.
Speaker 1:
So I would imagine you are treating these two years as a really long interview for another role within Citigroup. I would imagine that's a pretty grueling process.
Cristian Chis:
Yeah. Exactly. You're accumulating experiences. You're building your network internally. You're learning about your own strengths, your weaknesses, your likes, your dislikes. So it's a great experience, I think, for both parties: the employee, as well as the company itself. So I think it's a, it's a wonderful opportunity to have right out of business school to be given these various experiences that you can navigate fairly seamlessly and then to ultimately decide where you want to focus your attention and what do you want to do post program?
Speaker 1:
I like that. I like that a lot. And I have to tell you that if I could do things differently, I probably would have sought out some sort of program like this because my path, I almost feel like because of all of the jobs that I've had and the different responsibilities that I've had along the way, I feel like my entire career has been a rotational program. And that I'm speaking from personal experience, I have staffing, I have a little bit of compensation, I've got the generalist and the manager side, and the HR operations side. So I feel like I've had an elongated rotational program and it would've been really cool to be part of a program that says in a structured way, "This is what you're learning right now. You can look forward to learning this, but also consider maybe learning this over here."
So I think that would've been helpful for me as I identified which areas of HR I wanted to focus on. So thank you so much for sharing the current program that you're at, giving us a little insight into Citigroup. I appreciate you sharing your path. I said that my path looks a little interesting, but I think all of our paths look interesting and different and I think that's what makes them awesome. And just because it looks different or weird or whatever doesn't mean you can't be successful. So it's about finding our passions, finding what we're interested in and what we want to pursue. And you have a really unique experience in doing that. So any final thoughts you'd like to share with our listeners?
Cristian Chis:
No, except that, honestly, this is a great time, I believe for looking into such programs. As I said, I've seen an increase in the number of companies that are they're rolling out such programs. So I would say go for it if it's something that is of interest to you. Find out more. Do your own due diligence, as I did mine. Build your own spreadsheet with programs, connect with individuals who are in such programs, either on LinkedIn or through some other means and try to see how you can get into one. I think it's a great opportunity, especially if you're coming out of school. It's a great opportunity to learn more about HR in a fairly condensed period of time. And you come out of it, I think, with a much better focus as to what it is that you want to do and what you want to specialize in.
Speaker 1:
Cool. My next question is going to be about how our listeners can reach out to you. But before I say that, I'm going to give a pro tip to our listeners. Please don't contact Cristian and just ask him for a contact into the rotational program. That's not what this is about. If you have questions about the rotational program or want to hear a little bit more about the benefits of it and why Cristian loves this program and why he thinks it's important, great. Reach out to him, but please don't flood his inbox with, "Hey, yo, get me a job." But with that said, Cristian, how can our listeners reach out and connect with you?
Cristian Chis:
Yeah, totally. I'd love to connect with anyone interested. I think the best way is to connect via LinkedIn. You can search for my name and my name is spelled Christian, but without the H so C-R-I-S-T-I-A-N. And then my last name is spelled C-H-I-S. And if you search for that name, you should find me. Again, happy to connect and happy to talk about various things over LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:
Great. Well thank you again for being here. I really appreciate the conversation that we had.
Cristian Chis:
Thank you.
Speaker 1:
I think that our listeners will get a lot out of this conversation and perhaps think about entering the HR profession in a little bit of a different way. So if our listeners want to connect with me directly, feel free to reach out on LinkedIn and Twitter, Instagram, I'm at [SHRM Call Z. 00:28:41]. We do post updates about the podcast, including new episodes at thesherm.org/honestHR. And you can also find us on iTunes or Spotify or wherever else you listen to our podcast. So thank you again for coming out and we will see you next time for new episode of Honest Hr.
Cristian Chis:
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1:
Thanks, Cristian.
Cristian Chis:
Thank you.