<p>Callie and Ann talk about how in HR you are paid to keep secrets, how the most important hires are often those that can come in and create, lead and execute with little supervision, and more on this jam-packed episode of Honest HR.</p>
Callie and Ann talk about how in HR you are paid to keep secrets, how the most important hires are often those that can come in and create, lead and execute with little supervision, and more on this jam-packed episode of Honest HR.
Callie:
Hi everyone, and welcome back to Honest HR. I'm your host, Callie, and I'm excited to be back with another episode. Whether this is your first time with us, or you've listened to every episode we've dropped, we're happy you're here. As a reminder, our goal is to have honest and authentic conversations about various HR topics with all sorts of different guests. We change things up every episode, so if you find that today's episode doesn't speak to you, we respect that, but hope you'll come back for future episodes.
Callie:
Today, I'm joined by Ann Ramos and we'll be talking about the struggles of having access to data and information as HR professionals and how to use our power for good. Ann, welcome and thanks for being here. Before we jump into the topic, tell us a tiny bit about yourself, your journey through HR and what you're currently doing and where you're at.
Ann Ramos:
Sure thing. So my journey into HR is very similar to some of your other guests that had a very untraditional path. I was in the insurance field for over 10 years, and at one point I was a claims adjuster for an insurance company. While I was working there, I was also what you would consider an untraditional student. So I'd gone back for my bachelor's degree a little bit later in life and I had taken on the major of public administration because I loved reading laws and policies, and I also took an emphasis in HR, only because I thought it sounded fun. I didn't think I would ever be in HR due to the fact that once you're a claims adjuster, you're sort of always a claims adjuster was the model back then, as well as, since I was doing this journey later in life, I didn't have time to work my way up into HR as I saw my path at that point.
Ann Ramos:
So while I was working as a claims adjuster, I ended up needing to do a very long commute to work, to be able to progress in my career, and that commute became a little bit too much. Driving in snow for hours at a time is not really my forte, I found. And I applied for another claims position at a company that was closer to my home.
Ann Ramos:
Well lo and behold, they called me and said, "We no longer have that position open, but we have an executive assistant position open supporting the general counsel and then helping in HR 10% of the time." Anyone that's helped in HR knows there is no 10% of the time. So I took that position, but quickly got ramped up into an HR admin type role where I managed a lot of the HR analytics and data, the college recruiting program, and then started to take on things like investigations and minor issues that came through.
Ann Ramos:
During that time, I was also completing my master's degree in leadership studies at Marquette, and I was ready to progress more in my career. So I decided I needed to take a chance and move to a bigger city. I was in Milwaukee at that time. So I applied in Chicago and I was hired on as the executive assistant to the chief HR officer of Hillshire Brands, which is now Tyson. And she is still the chief HR officer there. I worked under her for approximately six months and then was promoted to HR generalist. So I got very lucky in that, that someone believed in me and saw something in me and I was able to progress within that organization.
Ann Ramos:
Once I was there, sales was a big component of what I did, and part of that was supporting the Acosta business. Acosta is my current employer and they had a role open that sounded interesting due to the fact that they were looking for an HR person in an office, which had never had an HR person. It was also within a company that they had acquired called Mosaic, which specialized in experiential marketing. So really supporting the Anheuser-Busch business. So I was the HR person for the Bud Light Girls, which was always fun.
Ann Ramos:
So from there I looked at the opportunity and just knew that I wanted to be part of it. I would have exposure to higher level leaders and be able to create and promote my own programs and initiatives within that smaller group. So I took the chance, moved into that role as an HR generalist. From there, after about a year and a half, two years, I became an HR business partner, and now I am leading a centralized division for employee relations for over 26,000 employees.
Callie:
I love everything about your path. I identify with literally every job you had. My favorite one, and I think it's the way that you mentioned it in your spiel, but the fact that you took a chance and moved out of a role that you were doing HR to go into an executive support role for the HR function was such a ballsy move. And I love that it panned out for you in the way that you got to get back into HR after taking that move.
Callie:
So I think that's probably my favorite part about your path and I think that's probably what has propelled you into success, because if you hadn't taken that move into a larger company and a larger organization or a larger city rather, you probably wouldn't be where you are today, right? So I love that part of your path. So thank you so much for sharing that.
Callie:
And I want to get into the topic that we have today. And as I mentioned earlier, we're going to be talking about how we as HR professionals typically have access to all sorts of confidential information and how that may lead to difficult situations or conversations.
Callie:
And so if you think about it, HR has access to medical information, payroll data, dates of birth. The list could literally go on and on and on. And having access to that information is often necessary for us to do our jobs, but it's difficult balancing the knowledge we have and the actions we must take.
Callie:
So Ann, my first question is going to be centered around that payroll data. So I remember being able to see what people made as early as my first job out of college and I'm not going to lie, there were plenty of times when I would see what I considered an under performer and then look at their pay in our system and say, "How do they make that much?" So I think that's a thing that we all are guilty of. And so I want to know what advice you have for new HR professionals when it comes to seeing the salaries of their coworkers.
Ann Ramos:
Yeah, I've definitely been in the same position and have had to learn how to deal with that as well in my role or roles that I've had throughout companies. Salary information is such an interesting topic and especially given avenues like Glassdoor and Salary.com, it's really created this environment where people feel that it's more acceptable to talk about information related to compensation. So other than just having payroll data, we also have to manage through some of the grapevine talk that will happen as well. So I think we could talk about both of those items.
Ann Ramos:
As HR professionals, of course it's always important to remember that salary data is one of the most important pieces of your job and one of the most sensitive things that you're entrusted with. You're literally paid to keep secrets. So you always want to remember that when you see something or hear something related to pay.
Ann Ramos:
This pay data can come through a lot of different channels. Like Callie said, it could be part of your actual job. You may do the analysis or run the reports related to that salary data. It may be an oopsie where you're on a shared drive that you accidentally had access to and you open up the file and there it is. Or let's be honest, you may seek out the information. You may go into the system and you may look to see what your peer is making. Or you may hear it through the grapevine.
Ann Ramos:
So ways that I have learned to deal with that is if you have the option, just don't look at it. It doesn't do anyone any good to know that Susie, who's a low performer and sits next to them is making more than they're making. That's never really helpful. And the more you internalize it, the more it's going to probably upset you.
Ann Ramos:
Other than that, I think it's important to look at the whole person, start to finish. Just because a person has 10 years of experience and so do you, it doesn't tell the whole story and you really have to dig a lot deeper.
Ann Ramos:
So of course you want to look at their level of education and where they went to school. You also want to think about when they came out of school, were they part of a rotational leadership or training program out of college? Those programs tend to start people just higher in general than someone like let's say in my role, that worked their way up from being an admin to an HR generalist and staying within the same three companies.
Ann Ramos:
You also want to look at their association involvement, awards and certificates. Another big item that I ran into is what locations have they been in through their career? So for example, if someone worked in New York and then they moved to Ohio, likely their pay was higher coming in due to the geography they were in previously and the person negotiating their salary off of that base.
Ann Ramos:
Another item that I ran into is that did they come through an acquisition into your company? I've actually had people report to me that made more money than I did, and that might be due to an acquisition. So that's also an important piece to think about as well.
Ann Ramos:
Also, of course, the size and name of the organization they worked at before. So someone that worked at Facebook or Google that has the components of knowing a business that's very up and coming and gritty, may be different than a person that worked at a ma and pa shop in the past.
Ann Ramos:
You'll also want to look at positions that they held that had different disciplines. So for example, if the person had worked with your competitors or clients previously, that could put them at an advantage, if that's what your team is looking for to complete their group.
Ann Ramos:
You also want to look at the groups they supported and the complexity and size. So for example, if someone supported a large group of engineers or a large group of remote consultants that may be different than someone that supported the finance department at another company.
Ann Ramos:
You also want to look at, did that person have project management experience? Are they an HR professional that's an HR business partner, but they also have recruiting experience? Those types of skills that cross over many different levels of HR can act as a deciding factor on pay because that person can pinch hit where there may be some gaps.
Ann Ramos:
Also, another big thing that we look at in our company is the ability to create, lead, and execute HR programs, and also to be able to make complex decisions with little direction. I have a lot of leaders within HR, also a lot of leaders within the business that say, "We just need someone that can step in and create things and make decisions right off the bat with very little direction, because I simply do not have the time to support them with training and getting them ramped up."
Callie:
Yeah. So your last point there about needing somebody with that grit and the ability to make those decisions and take things forward, in my opinion, absolutely should earn more than somebody who needs to be handheld and needs constant direction and things like that. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Callie:
Some of the other things that you shared too, just resonate so much with me. I have shared this on previous episodes, but I was part of an acquisition and part of the overall compensation structure after the result of that acquisition and the pay differences from a much larger company being acquired by a smaller company is a real thing.
Callie:
And so what you need to do in those sorts of situations is if somebody's being paid much more and the other individual has been there for a long time and is still making less, how do you meet that gap? And is it giving the person that's been there for a ton of time, a huge raise? Probably not, because we probably don't have the budget for that. But can we maybe talk to the individual who's made more and say you're outside of our range? What we can do is leave you there, but you're going to have smaller pay increases for the foreseeable future, or those sorts of things.
Ann Ramos:
Right.
Callie:
So it's certainly a conversation we need to be comfortable having in HR.
Ann Ramos:
And I think that transparency is so important in a situation like that to just set expectations so that the person can make the best decision for themselves as they move forward. In addition, I think transparency is just so important when maybe someone that you manage comes to you and says, "So and so who is my peer makes more money than I do. Our backgrounds are similar. Why is that?" is taking that conversation and trying to turn it into a positive career development conversation.
Ann Ramos:
So helping them to master where they want to be in their career and giving them the opportunities and exposure to move into a role with more responsibility and more pay is always going to be so much more beneficial to them than just simply giving them a $5,000 raise. So I think keeping that transparency is so good.
Ann Ramos:
And even when you do have a person that continues to come to you and says, "I need to make more money, I'm not making enough," sometimes it's having to have that really honest, true conversation to say, "Look, it's not in our budget, or it might be you're not performing to the level that we would expect for someone to make that amount to be performing. And knowing that you may be in a position with different financial goals, it might be time to make some tough decisions in your life related to us. We'd hate to lose you, but we don't want you to be unhappy." So I think transparency across the board is so important with these difficult conversations.
Callie:
Yeah. And the other thing I was just thinking of when you were making that comment is how important it is for HR managers to have those conversations with the people who are going to have access to that data too. You mentioned transparency, and I don't think it's just between people that say, "I know this person makes more than me. What can we do?" It's also about transparency within the HR space. Hey, you're taking this HR generalist role that means that you're going to have access to this data, this data, this data. Let's have an honest conversation about why this person over here makes this much. They came from this organization. They did this as a project. They'd done all these things. That way you don't feel some type of way about that person making so much more.
Callie:
The only thing I'll say though, is that HR individuals can't expect to have the opportunity to have that conversation about every single person that makes more than them. So at some point you just have to be okay with having that access and knowing what everybody makes and know that they have a different story and a different path than you had, and just move on from the way that you're feeling about that.
Ann Ramos:
Exactly. And I think some extra tips that I have related to that is when you take all of those things into account that I walked through, like their experience or education, geographically where were they, some other tips that I've found helpful in handling when you really still can't wrap your mind around why this person makes so much more than you is try to really get to know and observe the person, and you may get a better understanding as to what they bring to the table, that maybe that they're a very enthusiastic public speaker. They may be able to create buy-in from leadership that you would like to also be able to do eventually.
Ann Ramos:
Also understand your ultimate goal. And remember to ask your manager, instead of just focusing on that person's pay is having the discussion about developing yourself for a role, once again, that could lead you into that type of pay and responsibility. So don't make it so much about the solid numbers, make it more so about the opportunity that will guide you into that higher pay.
Ann Ramos:
And I would say don't use the information as a bargaining tool. I wouldn't be running my own comp analysis on my position and taking it to my boss to explain why I should be paid more, because just remember that it may discredit your reputation. And just think of how it feels when maybe someone from your business group comes to and uses their peer and what that peer makes to try to negotiate their own salary. It usually doesn't benefit anyone.
Callie:
No, and I would agree. I've been in the situation where somebody does come to me and they say, it's either this person makes this much and I know that because of X, Y, Z and I want to make that much, or I've been offered another job, and they're going to be passing me this, or they're going to be offering this. And both situations, I think I've thought to myself or said to myself, okay, well, why don't you leave then? If you're going to come me with that sort of delivery, I'm not that into it. So I think you're right, be strategic about how you ask for more money. I wouldn't compare yourself to a peer. I would say this person over here is doing X, Y, Z, I think I'm doing it better, or I've delivered this project in such a way that I think I'm due for a raise. Make it about you rather than somebody else. I think that's super important to get to where you're looking for as far as pay.
Ann Ramos:
Yeah, and also always asking your manager-
Callie:
[inaudible 00:20:22]-
Ann Ramos:
Sorry. Even though we're in HR, sometimes we have to manage up. So it's always remembering too, if you're not getting the feedback to understand why someone else may be getting promoted or may be paid more, is asking your manager what you can be doing better or what they see as your opportunities, so you can really hone in on that and develop yourself.
Callie:
Yeah, I like that and I agree. I'm going to turn it back to our HR professionals. And I did a hashtag with my fingers, which you can't see. So our hashtag HR professionals, what sort of tips do you have for them, for keeping the information that we have access to secure?
Ann Ramos:
Yeah, and this is a tough one, especially as we look at companies, especially with acquisitions that have many different platforms for data and many different groups that had access at one point or the other.
Ann Ramos:
So some best practices that I've learned is when it comes to your HRIS platforms, and this is very near and dear to my heart because right now we're running off three HRIS platforms, Lawson, ADP, and Fusion is to define groups within those platforms with clear breakouts of who has access to that data. So for example, if an HR person doesn't support one P and O, certainly no reason that they need access to that data. But if they do, you could assign one or two super users that they could request the data from, so at least you have a gatekeeper to provide that information to others, and you also have someone monitoring who is requesting that data and why.
Ann Ramos:
Also, when someone moves out of a department, so let's say someone moves from talent acquisition to a client service role, ensuring that their access is updated. So you wouldn't want someone that used to work in TA that goes into client services to still have access to Taleo that may have information related to new hire salary.
Ann Ramos:
Always locking files, and I've learned this the hard way. So when it comes to a merit file or a file with performance data that has to be sent to a leader, locking that file with a password is always a great idea. So I had a situation where I accidentally sent a merit file to the wrong leader, thinking that I had deleted the data that they should not have seen. And in that situation, I had to reach out to the leader, express my apologies, and ask them to keep the information confidential. I was very lucky that the person was very professional about it, and to safeguard that information in the future.
Ann Ramos:
Now, I always make sure that I password protect the file, so that that does not happen again. Just remember when you password protect your files to keep the actual password to that file somewhere safe and separate as well, because trust me, it might be 2022, but someone will need a merit file from 2013 for some reason. And you'll probably never remember that you used summer 13 for that password.
Ann Ramos:
Also, just locking your desk drawer or having one desk drawer that you always keep locked, that you rarely access, and you keep all of your confidential files, including any medical information related to employees in there so that you limit the amount of times that that drawer is actually open.
Ann Ramos:
Also, one habit that I have is to lock my computer manually whenever I walk away. Although my computer has an automatic lock that locks after five minutes, I still make sure to manually lock my computer. And also, if you have a laptop not leaving your laptop at work or locking it up is also a good idea. And if you do take it home with you, do not leave it in your vehicle, because I have had situations where vehicles have been broken into and data has been put in jeopardy because of that.
Callie:
Yeah, I completely agree. Your story about sending the file to the wrong person, it is from my life. I have done that before and I used the recall feature and you get the email back that says it's been successfully recalled. And I remember feeling really excited about that, but then in the back of my mind, I was like, what if it wasn't? Because that's happened to me too, where somebody says, "Oh, I recalled that." And it's like, "Nope, it's still sitting in my inbox." So I actually-
Ann Ramos:
Oh yeah.
Callie:
I actually send an email and say, "Hey, if you got an email, I tried to recall it. I just ask that you delete it and then permanently delete it out of your deleted items. Here's why." But try and do as much as you can to get that file back.
Callie:
But just be honest about it too. There have been times when I've tried to hide behind that recall feature, but like I said, sometimes it doesn't work. And so just being upfront about it and say, "Hey, you may have seen a recall thing come through your inbox," because I've also had managers email me and say, "Hey, I thought I saw an email from you and now I don't have it. Can you resend it?" And it's like, "Well, the reason you don't have it is because I recalled it because it wasn't supposed to come to you."
Ann Ramos:
Oh great.
Callie:
So that recall feature is great, but I still think that it's important to be upfront about why you're using it, if it is in a situation that is so dire, like the wrong information going to the wrong person.
Callie:
The other thing I'll say too is that I worked in a open concept environment and I think a lot of our organizations and companies are going to this open concept environment or situation within their offices. And that's tough for HR people, especially if you don't have an office that you can lock at the end of the day or when you go to meetings.
Callie:
I mean, I left for a meeting and I was sitting in the meeting and I thought, you know what? I'm pretty sure there's an employee file open on my desk and somebody might walk up and see it. And so I actually in my craziness would get up from the meeting and go shut that file or put it away and then run back to the meeting and be like, "Sorry, something came up," just because you don't think about that when you're like, "Oh crap, I'm late for a meeting," and you run to the meeting and then you're like, "You know what? I probably should have looked at my desk a little bit more to make sure that all of the information that I have access to is secure." So that's just another tip actually-
Ann Ramos:
Exactly.
Callie:
... I have for that open concept.
Ann Ramos:
Yeah. And we've had where, although, because we have a similar setup in our office, we've had where our HR advisors will have privacy screens on their monitors. So they'll think that people can't see the data that they have pulled up. However, if a person gets close enough, they can still see your screen. So that's another thing to watch out for as well, especially when it comes to salary data or reduction in force data that can cause a lot of noise that we don't want happening.
Callie:
Yeah, when I first moved into one of my open concept offices that I'm thinking about in my mind, my computer was actually facing the walkway. And even though I had those protection screens, which by the way are super expensive, it didn't work. People could still walk by and see what I was working on. So I actually flipped my desk around and still used the privacy screen because you're right, it works when you're far away or when you're not at the perfect angle, but you get behind that privacy screen from an angle or whatever and you can absolutely see what the person's working on. So you're right, be conscious of that. I think it's a great option to give to people, but they can't rely on that a hundred percent.
Callie:
So wanted to move into another part of this information data topic that we're talking about, and you sort of touched on this a little bit in one of your other answers. We have data and information in a million different systems. And I think that's okay from a security perspective, because if somebody gets into one system, they don't necessarily have access to the other system, but what we struggle with in HR, having all those different systems is getting them to talk to each other and using all of those systems from a data analytics or HR analytics perspective. So how can we take a better approach to data in order to use it to better discuss business matters with high level leaders with an HR twist on it?
Ann Ramos:
Yeah. This is also near and dear to my heart too, because I love data, and every organization that I've ever worked at, which includes Fortune 100 companies and Fortune 500 companies, the executives have come to me, be it in HR or business leaders and said, "I just want a dashboard that has all this information on it that I can glance at." And that sounds really easy, right? Like yeah, we should be able to have a system that just gives us a clean dashboard and all the information's correct. But I think the reality sometimes of HR is that because of differences in companies and acquisitions, we don't always have that one system of a record.
Ann Ramos:
So what I've done in my roles, and it can seem a little clunky, but once it gets going, it's really beneficial is making a manual movement report through pivot tables and VLOOKUPs to condense all of that census information and have a dashboard that pulls out information like headcount by office, promotions, salaries, years of service, turnover, L and D opportunities, so that when leaders ask about those six things or seven things, I have a number immediately for them. So that's been one thing that I have done.
Ann Ramos:
In addition to that, you want to really always make sure that you're connecting data back to your leadership teams, their concerns and initiatives. So listening is really important, and so is using the information that you have at your hands to be able to drive business decisions.
Ann Ramos:
So let's say you're sitting at a leadership meeting and the leaders are saying that people are leaving because their bonuses weren't paid out that year and because you no longer have bananas in the break room, trust me, this has been a real thing in my life, you might want to take exit survey data at that point and say, "Well, actually 80% of people left because they didn't see a clear career path to grow. And 15% cited work-life balance concerns. Only 5% mentioned pay, bonus, or benefits, and no one mentioned the bananas."
Ann Ramos:
So having that true data really then will help the business leaders to focus on what's important. So in that situation, it's people leaving because they don't see a clear career path to grow. So from an HR perspective, you may be able then to sell in a program where you're doing more succession planning and you're providing people with better feedback on their performance that will help along the lines to bring down that percentage that are leaving due to not seeing a career path or not feeling like their manager is invested in them.
Ann Ramos:
Now, if you don't sit at the table yet in your leadership meeting, so you may be an HR generalist that isn't invited to the senior leadership team meetings yet, I would say, take a look at what ties back to their bonuses and build on that or what the company's mission is for that year.
Ann Ramos:
So for example, if diversity inclusion is tied to their bonus or a large initiative for the next year, start to think about not only the number of hires that fall into that category, but tracking demographics on applicants, tracking the number of interviews for those that met the criteria, and also tracking the number of people that met the criteria, who were offered a position, but turned it down and why.
Ann Ramos:
Another thing that I do that's been helpful is following bloggers that really speak like your leadership team does. So my leadership team in the last position that I supported as an HR business partner, they were very blunt, they were very honest, they liked things straightforward and real. So one blogger, just to get ideas that I would follow is the HR Capitalist because he spoke a lot like my leadership team did, and I was able to apply what I was reading and learning externally to that leadership team and understand what data and analytics I needed to start tracking to really make a difference in the business.
Callie:
Yeah, I completely agree with everything that you said. The thing that resonated most with me is those gosh darn pivot tables. And gosh darn is Wisconsin speak for those of you who forgot where I'm from. Pivot tables have been part of my HR career since my first HR generalist role. My manager was obsessed with pivot tables and probably still is, honestly. Pivot tables for everything. And I think I remember her asking me, "Do you know what a pivot table is?" And I said, "No." And she got me into an Excel online course to learn about pivot tables and ever since then, every time we don't have a budget to do some sort of dashboard or some sort of data comparison, I always default to pivot tables. And so my one piece of advice based on the conversation we just had for those listening is if you don't know pivot tables, learn pivot tables.
Ann Ramos:
Yeah, it's so funny that you say that because when I moved into one of my ... actually as the executive assistant to the general counsel and HR, I had never been in that type of an admin role. And when they asked me if I knew Excel, I said, "No, I've only used it to make grocery lists." So it was really on the job training for me as well.
Callie:
Yeah, and it's not going away. That's the crazy thing. My first HR generalist role was like eight years ago and I'm still using pivot tables today. I just don't see that sort of technology going away. Even though we have all these sorts of companies that are making dashboard platforms and things like that for us to use, the pivot tables are always a good fallback. So I really appreciate you sharing that around the data that we can use to be a little bit more business-minded and business-focused.
Callie:
So I'm going to take you away a little bit from the business side of things and get into something that you mentioned way earlier on in this podcast, and it's the gossip. So you mentioned that sometimes we get access to data through gossip. And so what do you feel? Gossip happens everywhere. Gossip find its way to everyone within a company. And when we get access to this gossip, or when we overhear this gossip, I'd love to hear what sort of advice you have for HR professionals when it comes to managing and taking action on the gossip that they hear.
Ann Ramos:
Yeah. So gossip comes in many forms, no matter what level you're at in a company. It may be about a person's salary, it may be about their promotion or even their personal affairs. And when that information comes to me, the first thing I do is I identify what my role as an audience member is. In this situation, am I looked at as a peer, am I looked at as HR, or am I looked at as their supervisor, or maybe a combination of all three?
Ann Ramos:
And gossip often comes in the form of a complaint. So for example, you're my supervisor and I need a raise, so I'm going to tell you that Karen makes more. It may come as someone who is asking for, or looking for advice, or maybe they just want to vent. So that might be a peer that trusts you. It may also be a person that the information is packaged as gossip, but it might be something that we need to take action on. So in that situation, it may be a legitimate complaint such as their manager not communicating properly with them or a conflict of interest that may exist.
Ann Ramos:
So I really look at each situation and try to decipher what my role is, and if I am only to be a listener and try to guide the person out of the gossip that they're focused on, or if the gossip is really packaged as gossip, but needs some action taken on it. If action is needed, like let's say it's a conflict of interest that is happening, I will try to have the person come to that revelation themselves, to understand where the conflict and risk exists and try to work with them on how to approach the subject based on our HR processes and procedures.
Callie:
Yeah. And I've done similar things and thought similar things about those sorts of conversations, but two things and two approaches that I've used that work for me is I'm going to stop you right there and remind you that I am in HR. Are you sure you want to continue down this road with me? And the other one is thanks for coming to me with this information, now what do you want me to do or expect me to do with this information? And I think those two things really remind people and ground people on coming to me with gossip and things like that, that they've heard in the workplace. So for those listening, those are two ways that I've found it easier to manage that gossip in the workplace.
Ann Ramos:
Yeah, that's so true. And I would say even if you approach the conversation with that to start, sometimes people will still push for your opinion. And one thing I've learned to do is just say there's two sides to every story, I just don't really feel comfortable without knowing the whole story to be able to provide any insight or opinion on it.
Callie:
Well, we're coming to the end of our time together. So I appreciate you giving all of your insight on all of these questions, but do you have any final thoughts that you'd like to share with our listeners?
Ann Ramos:
I think the most important takeaway is remember as you're starting out in the HR field, that sensitivity around data and how you build trust through having access to that sensitive information.
Ann Ramos:
I would also say, I would give you the same advice that I give my son who just started high school, I don't even know how that happened, and that's that our jobs can be very difficult. Don't make your job more difficult by creating unnecessary drama especially internally or towards your team. You'll get much greater support and be more trusted, if you remember that repeating what you've seen or heard or assumed isn't going to do a lot of good, and how quickly what you say can get twisted around, leaving you to have to explain yourself to your manager or to someone in a leadership role.
Callie:
Yeah, I love that and I completely agree. Don't make HR harder than it is by taking on things that we don't necessarily have to worry about. And HR is hard, right? So thank you so much, Ann, for your time. If people want to continue the conversation or connect with you, how can they do that?
Ann Ramos:
LinkedIn is always a great tool. So I can be found on LinkedIn under Acosta and Mosaic.
Callie:
Great. Well, thanks again for being with us today, Ann. And I hope our listeners reach out to continue the conversation. If you want to connect with me directly, feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. And don't forget obviously about our SHRM Young Professionals page. We still want to hear from you there. Or follow me on Twitter and Instagram, @shrmcalliez. We post updates about the podcast, including new episodes at shrm.org/honesthr. And you can also find us on iTunes or Spotify or wherever else you listen to your podcasts. If you're feeling great about this podcast, feel free to throw us a rating. And thanks for coming out, and we will see you next time for a new episode of Honest HR.