<p><b>This is the episode to listen to if you want to get the attention of leadership. </b>Using these methodologies HR professionals can show up with numbers and facts and avoid the "I feel like" trap to describe what's happening in the workplace.<br /><br />Robin describes Lean as reducing known "waste," Six Sigma addresses the unknown causes to reduce variation in processes, etc.<br /><br />Key episode takeaway: "HR is relying on the excuse that we understand human behavior. We give ourselves the free pass to ignore the data." <em>Can we really say anyone truly understands human behavior?<br /><br />---<br /></em><b>EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING</b><br />Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! All you have to do is listen to a full mini-series to earn PDCs! All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.<br /><br />The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.<br />---<em><br /></em><b>This episode is Part 2 of a three-part series. </b>When you listen to all parts of the series you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation.</p>
This is the episode to listen to if you want to get the attention of leadership. Using these methodologies HR professionals can show up with numbers and facts and avoid the "I feel like" trap to describe what's happening in the workplace.
Robin describes Lean as reducing known "waste," Six Sigma addresses the unknown causes to reduce variation in processes, etc.
Key episode takeaway: "HR is relying on the excuse that we understand human behavior. We give ourselves the free pass to ignore the data." Can we really say anyone truly understands human behavior?
---
EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING
Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! All you have to do is listen to a full mini-series to earn PDCs! All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.
The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.
---
This episode is Part 2 of a three-part series. When you listen to all parts of the series you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation.
Callie Zipple:
Hey everybody, it's Callie back with another episode of Honest HR. I'm excited to be back. We are in the midst of mini series two. This is all about business acumen. So if you were with us last week, you heard from Parker, and this week you'll be hearing from Robin. Robin, she'll tell me I'm wrong in a minute, but she's an expert on the lean and six sigma methodologies. And I'm sure you've heard recently, and if you haven't, you will, that this is really a thing that's taking off in the HR space. And so I'm excited to have Robin here to talk to us about how we can be more efficient as HR practitioners and organizations by using the lean and six sigma methodologies. And so Robin, thank you so much for being here. Can you give us a little bit of information about your role, your background, pretty much anything you want us to know about you as a person?
Robin Chapekis:
Sure. Hi, Kelly. Thanks for having me on today. Things about me, so my name is Robin. I have a SHRM-SCP certificate and the Lean Six Sigma Black Belt by the wonderful folks over at Lawrence Tech University here in Detroit. Right now, I'm doing consulting on my own. So I own my own LLC, and I'm working with several clients who are struggling with their HRIS, their HR data systems, and need to get cleaned up a little bit and get their processes set back in order so that their HR teams can focus more on the transformational parts of their roles versus getting bogged down in all that transactional stuff. My background, I'm from Michigan, grew up in Michigan, love Michigan, went to Michigan State and Eastern. Yeah, I'm very excited to be looking at lean six sigma and how it can have such a positive impact on HR as a profession and HR as practitioners and increase our value in the workplace.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, and we actually met at an event in upper Michigan, I think.
Robin Chapekis:
Yes.
Callie Zipple:
I did a presentation there about the future of HR and you introduced this idea or methodology to me there, and I was just very intrigued and I'm excited that you are here today.
Robin Chapekis:
Yeah, me too. That was a great event up in the UP. It was a nice day to meet you and see the direction that SHRM is going, which is always very helpful for us in the field.
Callie Zipple:
As I mentioned, our topic today is really about number one, understanding these two methodologies, the lean and six sigma methodologies, through the lens of an HR practitioner. And I imagine that when you talk with HR professionals about these methodologies, you either one, get a blank face or stare, or a flicker of recognition. But I don't think we're to a place yet where you hear, "Yeah, I fully understand those methodologies, specifically as they relate to human resources." And admittedly, I was one of those flicker people because I had worked in a manufacturing plant years ago and was familiar with these two methodologies, but I honestly have never really connected them with the HR profession, which I think is pretty common. So can you give us a high level overview of these methodologies? And remember, when I say high level, high level, right?
Robin Chapekis:
Yes, yep. So lean six sigma fascinates me because I love math and I love science and I've been looking for ways for myself to bring more math and more scientific process and measurability into what HR does.
Callie Zipple:
And before all of our listeners turn off real quick, math and science aren't super big for me. But I still think that it's worth having a conversation about these methodologies. So don't scare away easy with that introduction, okay? Stick around, it gets better.
Robin Chapekis:
It does. So the basis of lean is using the lean methodologies to reduce waste in your processes. So whether that's waiting time, so think about your candidates and your hiring process, there's a lot of waste and waiting time that's happening. Another place of waste is over processing. I know HR professionals can tell me, "Yes, I've looked at that form six times," when they really only need to look at it once. The other big part of waste is defects, and this sounds really inhuman and robotic and I know we're moving towards a more human workplace.
But if you think of a hire that didn't work out as a defect, you can put it in more of that science bucket and figure out how to reduce your defects or how to reduce your waste. Six sigma is about reducing variation. So again, think about that hiring process and think about all of the variables that are going into that hiring process and what your end goal is. So what six sigma does is get you to look at which parts you can control and then how to center up on controlling each of those parts so that your outcome is the most similar most of the time. So that's where the standard deviation and the big heavy math comes into it. But we won't talk about that.
Callie Zipple:
Mm-hmm, no.
Robin Chapekis:
We'll stick to the big picture. So lean is reducing waste and six sigma is reducing variation in the high level.
Callie Zipple:
These are separate methodologies, right?
Robin Chapekis:
Correct. Yes.
Callie Zipple:
So we could have people focusing on the lean and that sort of certification, which I know there are certifications for each of these methodologies. But lean, again, remind us, is?
Robin Chapekis:
So lean is reduced waste. So again, if you think big picture, if you have a known error, so an error that you can see, something that you can identify and say, "Yep, that was a defect," you're going to apply lean methodologies. With six sigma, it's about reducing variation where your errors are unknown. You can see that things are not right, but you don't know exactly what the cause is. That's where you would use the deep dive of six sigma.
Callie Zipple:
Cool, that's helpful. How did you land on these two methodologies being something you want to implement within the HR space?
Robin Chapekis:
Back to math and science. I was looking for the measurability. What's funny is I was just reading the other day about 55% of organizations say they don't measure the effectiveness of their onboarding programs. So we're not doing any measuring, and that's all about what lean six sigma is figuring out what you're measuring and how you're measuring it, and then be measuring at the same time so you can come up with a statistical resolution to your problem.
Callie Zipple:
And I think that's crucial right now, especially if we're trying to get HR from the more tactical and administrative partner to that business partner. It's all about having those metrics and those analytics because that's how our executives understand the business to work and that's the sort of conversation they want to be having with us.
Robin Chapekis:
Right, right. If you go to your CEO and say, "I feel like employees are having a hard time with blah, blah, blah," they're going to turn off. Whereas if you go and say, "76% of our new hires are missing the mark because of this one controllable factor, and we've changed it and reduced the time for that from two days to one day, and here's the outcome," they're going to want to hug you because they'll understand what you're saying.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, game changer.
Robin Chapekis:
Yeah.
Callie Zipple:
Totally, totally. And with these metrics and with these conversations, you can put money to these metrics and to these things that we're measuring. So that's another thing that they care about, right? Money. Money, money, money.
Robin Chapekis:
Absolutely. [inaudible 00:08:45] Yep, yep.
Callie Zipple:
So I think what's interesting to me is that, like I said in the introduction, this is a conversation that we've seen starting to happen in a lot of different areas specific to the HR space. So I've gotten a couple of emails recently.
Robin Chapekis:
You did, thank you.
Callie Zipple:
Actually, I think I forwarded one to you, about trainings and conversations and events that are happening around this conversation. And I think what's interesting to me is that you said it's about efficiencies. And I know when I talk to HR professionals, they will admit to the fact that their HR department and their probably organization as a whole is inefficient. And I've heard them also use the word lean. Not necessarily in the context of this methodology, but these are two efficiencies. And having a lean organization are conversations that we've had for a long time, but we need to find a way to shift to it being specific to these sorts of methodologies, if that makes sense.
Robin Chapekis:
It does. And yes, I would agree 100%.
Callie Zipple:
So we talked about this too, that these two methodologies are prevalent in the manufacturing industry. Why do you think this has worked so well there?
Robin Chapekis:
Going back to thinking about lean six sigma about variables that you can control, in a manufacturing environment, you can control almost everything. You can control the temperature in the room. You can control the settings on the robot. You can control where your wrench is located in your workspace. You can control pretty much everything. And when you have that amount of control over all of those variables, it's much, much easier to define your specifications and measure to those specifications.
Callie Zipple:
So I imagine that the way that we think of these two methodologies from a manufacturing perspective differs slightly from an HR perspective because we don't have as much control of that.
Robin Chapekis:
Yes, it does. Correct. Humans are our number one variable in HR, and we cannot control most things about humans or human behavior. And from my point of view, I think that's one of the reasons why lean six sigma has not yet caught on in HR. A lot of times, I think that HR is relying on the excuse that we understand human behavior and then we give ourselves that free pass to ignore the data because we come up with this assumption that this is why that is happening because it fits in human behavior, whereas the numbers and the stats might show us something different and we might be wrong. So it is catching on in customer service though. When I took my black belt course, the room was filled with call center employees from Blue Cross Blue Shield.
And it was really interesting to hear them talk about how they were setting up their specs and their decision trees that they're using when they receive those incoming customer service calls and how they're applying lean and six sigma to reduce the amount of time that the person is on the phone or reduce the cost of resolution for whatever problem it is that that customer has. So it is becoming very prevalent in those types of scenarios. Again, there's a little bit more control over the variables in that customer service setting, simply because of the nature of, if you think about healthcare, there's generally only X amount of problems that you can have. And in HR, yeah, there's probably only X amount of problems that you can have too, but it seems like we're always finding something that's different or someone that's different or that one-off scenario. So it's hard to fit those one-off scenarios into a lean six sigma box.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, I would argue that if you, if we surveyed our listeners and we said, "Do you feel like every day is the same?" 100% of them would say, "No." And I think we do operate in the one off or gray space from an HR perspective.
Robin Chapekis:
We do, and let me say something. So I think operating in the one off, it's almost a catch 22 because you want to have that human connection and that human touch, which is where the one off is. However, you still need it to be efficient and effective, and that's where the one offs get in your way. So it's a catch 22 and it's a hard spot to negotiate as an HR professional to be robotic, but not robotic. Does that make sense?
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, yeah. It absolutely does. And I don't know if you'll necessarily have the perfect answer to this question.
Robin Chapekis:
Probably not.
Callie Zipple:
But what would it look like if we started to have conversations about the lean and six sigma methodologies within our own HR departments and organizations that aren't necessarily in that manufacturing industry? How can we start that conversation?
Robin Chapekis:
I think the start is, number one, commitment from everybody to put on a different lens. So the biggest learning from my master's of HR degree, as well as lean six sigma, is don't make assumptions, ask more questions. And putting on those glasses of, "I don't know the answer, but I want to find out the answer, and my assumptions that I've automatically made because I'm human could be totally wrong and that's okay," I think that's a good place to start. For an individual, a good place to start is to think about your own work and your own processes that you're doing in your every day. So checking your email. If you're a payroll person, how do you do your payroll, checking on your benefits enrollments that you have going on, all those different kind of transactional tasks that have to happen.
So taking those and building a process for yourself that maps out where your waste could be. Where am I wasting time on over processing this one part of payroll that I've looked at six times that I don't need to look at six times? So getting your own processes down and then sharing amongst your team members, "Oh gee, I'm stuck on this one part. I have this manual check that I have to do every week and I just don't know how to get around it. Does anyone have any ideas?" And start looking at it from that perspective of just taking a look at your own things. From a bigger picture, organizational wide, it's almost a culture shift from my point of view because to go with lean six sigma and to stick with the methodologies, you're going to have to make some hard choices about the things that you can't control.
You might have that manager, who the statistics say, "This manager is part of your problem." Okay, can we retrain the manager to stick in the specification, which might be a measurement of numbers or performance metrics, or even a process or a procedure can be a specification, can we train that manager to stick in those or can we not? And that's a tough choice because if you can't, that variable is now messing up your whole process and you have to make that tough choice about what to do about it. So I think finding the courage to use the lens that says, "We're not making assumptions," and be ready to make those tough choices, even if it's going to affect the humans involved. That's another big place to start because your leadership's going to have to be on board with that as well. Yeah, and that's scary for some people.
Callie Zipple:
It is. Well, there's a lot of things in HR that is scary for people. And spoil alert for our listeners, next week's episode is about strategic planning and how HR departments and organizations can do a better job of that. And I'm curious about the strategic planning idea and how more organizations are doing that org wide. Do you feel like a strategic plan has to come before these methodologies? And I would assume the answer, and I'm putting it in your mouth, but prove me wrong if you want to, is yes. Especially if we need to get everybody on board before we can implement these methodologies.
Robin Chapekis:
So I'll halfway agree with you, that-
Callie Zipple:
Super. You're the best.
Robin Chapekis:
An org wise strategic plan, whatever you're doing, it's a culture shift. Changing to lean six sigma across an organization is a culture shift that is going to require strategic plan and communication and initiative backing from top down in any organization. So yes. My other half that's disagreeing is starting with your own tasks. Like I was just saying, switching to a lean six sigma methodologies in your own task does not take a strategic plan. It takes you saying, "I'm tired of doing all of these transactions. I'd rather be doing transformational stuff that I feel has a bigger impact on the goals of the organization. I need to get more efficient. How can I do that?" These methodologies will help you on a one off basis in those places. So it's kind of half and half.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. And I was just going to say, based on what you just said, realistically, the individuals that we have in HR that are looking to go from that administrative to strategic partner are already thinking like this. But not knowing that it's lean and six sigma driven, right?
Robin Chapekis:
Right, right. And probably using some of the tools. The plan, do, check act, that's a lean tool. Process mapping is a six sigma tool. Reducing lead time is a lean tool. So the tools, I'm sure, are being used.
Callie Zipple:
So let me ask you another question, then, based on that. So we've got all these tools that I'm sure we're using within the HR function. So what would a successful implementation of lean or six sigma look like, even in bits and pieces? So to your point, if we're not able to implement these outright, what are some of those bits and pieces that we can be thinking about now that will get us in the right direction to using these methodologies within our own departments?
Robin Chapekis:
My favorite tool is the process mapping. So process mapping in a true six sigma way includes everything about a process. Downtime, transfer. I'm going to put myself in a mental space where I'm going through a pre-employment process, I'm receiving pieces of paper and I have to walk to the fax machine to get it and then walk it back and show it to someone else on the way. All of that is part of your process. And what I see when we're doing process mapping for HR is we're not including all of those little things, but those little things add up to time and add up to time waste.
So thinking about your processes, not just this is what happens and that's what happens, but how do you get from here to there and who else is involved to get from here to there and what time and other resources are involved to get from here to there, will help us start opening our eyes to all the waste that's happening and seeing exactly where. Remember, I said very early that six sigma is the problems that you can't see. If you're walking through that process, you will start to see where they could be. Does that answer your question?
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, it definitely does. I like the idea of process mapping, and I've had the opportunity to do that in a previous role. I was part of the HR service center, which supported all of our employees globally, well sort of globally, and we had a lot of processes that we went through. So if we got a question about benefits, there were process documents that we followed to answer those questions and to get them to the right place. Could those process documents have been a little bit tighter and cleaner? Probably. And the other thing that's interesting and nice about mapping those processes is you can find the steps of the process that can be eliminated in that. But you can also find the steps in the process that absolutely need to remain the same. So for example, if you're doing a reduction in force, there are some pieces of paper that you absolutely have to continue to hand to that person. But by mapping out that process, you can identify which pieces of these papers that these people need and trim out what else can be let go, if that makes sense.
Robin Chapekis:
Right, right. Or what can be handed all at the same time or what can go in the mail or what can be combined into one document versus four documents. There's so much opportunity for us to be more efficient and to use the simple process mapping to become more efficient and take that deeper dive into exactly what are we doing down to the nitty gritty.
Callie Zipple:
So let me ask you one more question. If a HR team starts thinking in this lean or six sigma way, how are they approaching or thinking about problems and issues that they encounter?
Robin Chapekis:
Again, not making assumptions. So taking off that I understand human behavior, so I have an idea what's going to happen. Get rid of that mindset and be open to trusting your process map and trusting the process of going through the different methodologies and using the different tools in lean six sigma to get you to the best answer that's going to increase your efficiency. A team, of course, you need strategic thinkers. You need a group of people who are focused on value. The other big thing about lean six sigma is we're trying to reduce non-value add activities. So whatever it is that you're doing that increases value for your employees in your organization, someone who can think about focusing on those.
Problem solving, of course. Complex problem solving and people who want to be engaged in being better and being more efficient. Not better, that can be a pejorative word. But HR people who are engaged in continuous improvement and becoming more effective and efficient. If your HR team is not bought in, your use of the methodologies is not going to work and it's not going to spread, I think, in the way we want it to. But yeah, I would say the biggest thing, again, just like we were talking about with organization wide, is approaching problems with those, those questions and letting go of any of your assumptions and trusting the measurements that you're making and trusting the data that you're finding to pinpoint what the actual problems are.
Callie Zipple:
And I'm going to give you an opportunity to disagree with me again, but I think we talk about HR, or we have talked about HR in the past as this sort of reactive department. Would you argue that these two methodologies can get us to a place where we're addressing issues before it becomes a problem and being a little bit more proactive in that?
Robin Chapekis:
Yes. I am not going to disagree with you about this one at all.
Callie Zipple:
Woo hoo, awesome.
Robin Chapekis:
Because I think you're 100% right. Like we were saying, there's always going to be that one off odd situation. That's always going to happen just because of the nature of working with humans. That's the way it is. But being able to hone your processes so that you have control over as many variables as possible is going to put you more in that proactive space where the one-offs are going to become fewer and farther in between because you are looking at the data and saying, "Oh, we've seen this before. It fits into here, and here's the spec for that," situation versus, "Here's the spec for all of the situations," which is going to be a huge wide spec.
If we consider some of those different one off situations, maybe we have a different spec that handles this type of one off or that type of one off. So yes, these will get you into a more proactive point of view. And simply doing the process mapping and using the other tools like the lead time reduction and the five S and the multitude of other tools, putting on that lean six sigma hat and thinking in that way and thinking in continuous improvement and efficiency way, you're going to automatically become more proactive to problem solving because you're looking at things in a little bit of a different way. You're not waiting for something to happen, you're looking towards what could possibly happen that doesn't fit into this spec. So you're going to be taking care of those potentials before you reach them, which is proactive.
Callie Zipple:
Mm-hmm, agreed. Well, those are all the questions that I have for you, but is there anything you wanted to share with our listeners quick before we close out?
Robin Chapekis:
Don't be afraid of math and science.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. So you disagreed with me before, and I'm going to tell you that I disagree with that statement because I started college as a business and math double major, and that changed real quick.
Robin Chapekis:
So yes, and there are tools that can help you with this. Minitab is an awesome program. You don't actually have to do any math. All you have to do is collect data and input it.
Callie Zipple:
What was it?
Robin Chapekis:
It's called Minitab.
Callie Zipple:
Okay. So just M-I-N-I-T-A-B?
Robin Chapekis:
Yes, correct. Yep. So it's a software. You literally don't have to do any of the math and science part. You collect the data, you input it, and you ask the little assistant guy, "I need to know X." And he'll tell you, and he'll give you the language to go tell your supervisor or CEO what this data means. So it makes it a lot less scary. It's an awesome, awesome tool. So yeah, [inaudible 00:28:30]
Callie Zipple:
So in my mind, I just thought Clippy. Do you remember Clippy the paper clip?
Robin Chapekis:
Yes, I do remember Clippy.
Callie Zipple:
So when you say the little guy in this Minitab, all I'm thinking is Clippy.
Robin Chapekis:
Doing his little dance down in the corner.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. Yes. So same same?
Robin Chapekis:
Yes, very similar. Yep, yep.
Callie Zipple:
Awesome. Well, if our listeners want to reach out or connect with you to continue the conversation, how can they reach out?
Robin Chapekis:
So email is a good one. Robin, R-O-B-I-N, @svelte, S-V-E-L-T-E, hr.com. Or you can find me on LinkedIn, Robin Chapekis, SHRM-SCP I think is my full name on LinkedIn.
Callie Zipple:
Do you want to spell your last name for our listeners?
Robin Chapekis:
Oh, yeah. So it's Chapekis, C-H-A-P-E-K-I-S, or you can search SVELTE HR on LinkedIn.
Callie Zipple:
Well, thank you so much for being here.
Robin Chapekis:
Thank you.
Callie Zipple:
You bet. If our listeners want to connect with me, again, this is Callie Zipple. You can find me on LinkedIn at Callie Zipple, Twitter and Instagram at SHRMCallieZ. You can always find out more information about the podcast at shrm.org/honesthr. And Robin, thank you again for being with us. And for those who come back, so this episode is part two of mini series two. Next week's episode will be part three of three. We'll provide you with the SHRM professional development or PDC code after listening to the next week's episode. You must listen to all parts of the mini series in order to use the PDC code towards your SHRM re-certification. So if you haven't already done so, please go back and listen to part one of this mini series called becoming a sought after business partner featuring Parker McKenna. Thanks as always for being SHRM certified and for listening to our Honest HR podcast. Have a good one.