Host Amber Clayton is joined by Ben Greene, transgender educator and speaker, to discuss the ways HR professionals can advocate for their transgender colleagues. Learn the difference between cultural and structural acceptance and how both are essential in creating an inclusive workplace.
Be proactive in supporting transgender employees. Host Amber Clayton is joined by Ben Greene, transgender educator and speaker, to discuss the ways HR professionals can advocate for their transgender colleagues. Learn the difference between cultural and structural acceptance and how both are essential in creating an inclusive workplace.
This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires February 1, 2026.
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Honest HR - Ben Greene - FINAL
[00:00:00] Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for informed and aspiring HR professionals intent on transforming workplace challenges into golden opportunities. Every week, we chat with industry experts to bring you insights, trends, and actionable advice. Through relatable stories from the real world of HR. Honest HR is a SHRM podcast.
And by joining us, you're helping to build a more engaged workforce and drive organizational success. I'm Wendy Fong. I'm Amber Clayton. And I'm Monique Akonbi. Now let's get honest.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back. My name is Amber Clayton. I'm the Senior Director of Knowledge Center Operations at SHRM, and we're here today with Ben Green, public speaker and author of My Child is Trans, Now What? Welcome. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Well, we're glad to have you.[00:01:00]
So, Ben, what challenges have you faced in your personal or professional life that have led you to the work that you're doing today? So, I've been doing this work formally for about five years. I have been working to do policy review, public speaking, training, helping people build structurally and culturally inclusive workplaces for transgender and LGBTQ employees.
But informally and unpaid, I've been doing this work for a decade because I transitioned when I was a teenager in small town, Connecticut. And Nobody knew what to do with me. 10 years ago, transgender was not a word anybody was using. And so I had to build all my support systems as I realized I needed them.
A lot of times too late. So I was just building them for the kids who came out after me. I always say that I was jumping out of a plane with a tarp and a sewing kit. And now as a transgender adult, I get to be the parachute factory. So I get to work with companies to build up those systems. So the people who come after me get to be supported as they are by default.
So I love the work I get to do. Well, that's great. If you don't mind me [00:02:00] asking, tell me how you first came out. You said, you know, it was, it was a challenge. You were the first, is that what you're saying? You're the first person. I was one of the first people to come out that I know of. I think there could have been people before me that I didn't know.
Um, it was really challenging and I, I'd come out first as bisexual. And I had a lot of guardrails and supports in place for that because I had heard of that before so I could identify some of the feelings I was having, I had seen the ways people around me reacted to LGB people, so I knew that that would be okay.
And generally, I was right, sure there were people who had some problems with it, but generally that was okay. As I started to feel that gender dysphoria, which is that discomfort between your biological sex and your gender identity, how that showed up for me was I was desperate for puberty to stop. I was miserable, my body was changing, and it felt so wrong, and I had no sense of recognition at the person in the mirror, which was terrifying, and I didn't know it was a thing, I didn't know.
That anything could make it better. I kind of just thought, I guess this is how my life is going to be. [00:03:00] And then I was sitting in my bedroom, scrolling through Facebook and I saw a Facebook post of someone coming out as transgender and they said, I'm transgender, here's what that means. And it felt like this wave just crashed over me of like, Oh my God, that's allowed?
I could have done that this whole time? And so I came out to myself, but I didn't have any of those same guardrails for the people around me either. Nobody had seen other transgender people, so I didn't know if my friends would be okay with it, I didn't know if my parents would be okay with it, and I couldn't afford to guess wrong.
Not when I knew the statistics about violence, about bullying, about homelessness, I couldn't afford to be wrong. And so I stayed in the closet for the first eight years of my transition. With the closet door locked from the inside because nobody ever told me that I couldn't come out, but nobody ever told me that I could, um, and that was really, really challenging.
It was a really dark period of my life. And so now I think I, I lean into hyper visibility because I never want to go back to that place. And what was your experience when you were first [00:04:00] going to 15 years old. That's around the time. Most people, you know, tend to find their jobs. What was the challenge for you?
Yeah, it was really nerve wracking because you know, that same mentality of not knowing whether or not people would be supportive. I was really afraid. And one of my first jobs that I really remember having a lot of stresses and having some really cool allyship was I was working as a preschool teacher and I was having my top surgery over that summer in the middle of the And so I had had to tell the head of HR, Hey, I'm transgender, I'm having this surgery, here are the restrictions I'm having.
I really don't want my co workers to know that I'm transgender. They all assumed that I was assigned male at birth and just was like any other guy. And they had no idea why I was taking time off. And so there were a lot of things I was stressed about. Were the kids gonna be okay with understanding that, you know, I couldn't pick them up for a couple of weeks?
And were my co workers gonna ask invasive questions about why I was taking time off for surgery? Which, they were curious, but I was able to kind of, Push those questions aside, but getting asked a [00:05:00] lot, you know, why are you taking time off? What's the secret surgery you're having? And then another challenge that I had the whole time and every time I worked at that job before I had my name legally changed was payroll.
My payroll check always had my old name on it, which was a more feminine name. And I really didn't want my coworkers to see that name and say, who's this person? Who's, who's that getting our check? Ben, you know, your last name is on here. What does this mean? And then start to put the pieces together. And I went to my HR director and I said.
You know, Amanda, I'm feeling really stressed about this. I really don't want my coworkers to see it. Can you change this? Because I was 16 years old. I didn't know how payroll worked. So I said, could you, can you put a different name on my check? And she said, legally, you haven't had your name changed. We can't change that on there.
Let me see what I can do. And I said, okay, so payroll comes around on Friday and everybody's checks are laid out on one table. And I see that mine's not there. And I was like, okay, this is like kind of weird, but you know, I'll just go and check in with her. And so I said, Hey, do you have my check? And she said, yeah, I have it here for you.
And she gave it to me and she had put a post it note over it that she cut out [00:06:00] and she wrote Ben on the post it note, which was so meaningful to me because She knew that she was up against a much bigger system than she had the resources or the time to fix, and she knew that she wasn't going to be able to change the entire workplace policy around what name they could print on that check or what the relevant laws were.
So she said, what's something little I can do? How can I make it so that your coworkers aren't seeing it? How can I make it so that at least. Until the second before you have to peel it off to deposit it. You don't have to see that name that makes you unhappy. And she showed up in all the ways that she could.
And that was really meaningful for me. And that's been a theme throughout my journey with my parents, with different coworkers and bosses that I've had is people have been showing up. The best way they know how, which I really appreciate that effort that so many people take. So there were certainly challenges, but honestly, the kids eventually found out that I was transgender because one of the kids decided to start asking everybody, are you a girl or a boy incessantly?
And so we ended up having that talk and the kids [00:07:00] were fine. They did not care at all. My coworkers, I had talked to them at the end of the workday. I said, Hey, you know, tomorrow, if this kid is still on this whole, are you a girl or a boy thing? I think I'm going to have to answer that question. And here's what my answer is going to be so that you're not surprised.
And they were like, Oh, like that, that makes sense. Thank you for telling us. And so I'm really lucky that that conversation went okay. And that the kids all, you know, it was very easy for them to get it. So with the kids, and I'm just curious about this, um, parents. You know, what were the parents involved in the communications and, you know, having those conversations with the children.
I know for myself, I can remember my daughter. Um, so my best friend is gay and she's married. And so, um, my daughter went over to her friend's house and there were two women living below. And my daughter says, Oh, they're gay. And, um, Her mother comes to me and says, you know, I wasn't quite ready to have that conversation with my daughter, but your daughter mentioned it.
And now my daughter's questioning it. So it, tell me about that experience and what happened. You know, this was [00:08:00] in around 2018, which was. Honestly, I think the sweet spot for coming out as transgender because it was after a lot of the really specific anti gay sentiment. We've won marriage equality, that's so gay has moved out of the schools.
Like we were in a pretty solid point of LGB acceptance and nobody knew what transgender meant in a good way or a bad way. Nobody had heard that it was something that was going to target your kids. People weren't really worried about it, especially I'm from Connecticut, so nobody in, you know, Connecticut was worried about it.
And so we didn't put a whole lot of thought into the parents and none of the parents had a big problem with it. And we didn't make it into a big thing. It wasn't a whole lesson on trans identities. It was just, Oh, sometimes people who are girls realize that being a girl doesn't really feel right for them.
And so they become a boy. And that's what Mr. Ben did. And they were like, okay, cool. Can we have extra snack time? And I was like, no, but thanks for trying. That's great. That's great. You mentioned the word allyship a few minutes ago. Could you tell our audience what an allyship [00:09:00] is? What it means in case they're not aware?
Absolutely. So allyship looks a lot of different ways, but in general, Even though technically if you ask the dictionary, it's a noun, allyship is a verb. It is a practice. It is something that you are doing every day, uh, to show up for another group of people. And allyship is something that we all need to give and receive from each other.
It's not a one way street. So as a trans person, I need allyship from my cisgender peers. I need people to help correct others on my pronouns. I need people to stand up if someone is getting aggressive or very firm in their anti trans. stance or to help me answer questions from other people. I also need to give allyship to my friends who are women as a man, to my friends who are people of color as a white person.
I need allyship from my Christian friends as a Jewish person. It is something that we are all just giving that respect and support to each other. And there's a quote about allyship I love, which is if you're trying to be my ally and the stones thrown at me aren't hitting you, You aren't standing close enough [00:10:00] at some point.
We don't do allyship because it's going to make us well loved or popular with everybody. We have to be willing to know that there are going to be some people who say, I don't like that you're standing up for that group. I don't like that you respect that group of people. And you get to decide where you want to draw the line of how important those opinions are to you.
But allyship to me means showing up. Asking what can I do? How can I support you? How can I be on your team? That's great. That's great. And you mentioned the word cisgender. I just want to make sure again, you know, because there are different terms out there. Can you explain that? Yeah. So cisgender, the Latin root cis means same.
Essentially it just means that your gender identity is the same as your sex assigned at birth. What was written on your birth certificate. You have always felt comfortable in that identity. Most people probably identify as cisgender. It's not a bad thing. Just a vocabulary word. It's a great question.
Thank you. Thank you. So what are some of the misconceptions about transgender, LGBTQ plus, uh, individuals that you think need to be addressed in the workplace? Yes, that is, [00:11:00] that's the million dollar question, isn't it? Misinformation around the trans community is really pervasive right now. And one of the more subtle pieces of misinformation that I think has been very effective is that we're very angry.
We're very scary. When I got into public speaking, I was ready for anger and hate. I made an Excel document of every heckling and rude comment or question I was anticipating and my response, because I was so nervous that I was gonna get all this stuff thrown at me, and instead I found fear. Everywhere I went, I'd give speeches, and when people would ask their questions, they would almost always preface it with an apology.
I'm sorry if II'm not asking this right. I'm sorry if I can't ask this. I'm sorry if this is too personal, or I'm sorry if you already explained that. People were terrified to get caught up in saying the wrong thing and asking the wrong question. A lot of people, you know, I talk to families who have trans kids come out and they say, well, I just don't want to ask my kid the wrong thing, so I haven't been asking anything.
And then I talk to the kid and they say, yeah, my mom doesn't ask me any questions. So I kind of assume that she's [00:12:00] uncomfortable with it and she doesn't really care. People are so afraid to ask the wrong thing because there's been this picture of an angry transgender person who's screaming at you for asking the wrong question.
And I don't know. I can't speak for every trans person that exists, but I can go out on a limb here and say that 90, 95 percent of us can tell the difference between a malicious question asked with the goal of making us upset and somebody who genuinely wants to learn and wants to do better. It doesn't mean every person is the expert on all things transgender, right?
When I came out, RuPaul didn't come down my chimney and say, here's the encyclopedia of gay, slay queen. I didn't become an expert when I came out. Everybody around me thought that I had. Everybody was asking me to define everything, to write all these policies, and I was like, Man, I'm 15, I don't know what this is.
But I chose to become an expert by study. I read every book I could find, I wrote books on it, I have become an expert on this topic. So, while not every trans person is Is going to be the exact right resource for your [00:13:00] question. They're going to appreciate that you want to learn, that you want to know more.
People can tell the difference between a hateful question and a curious question. So please don't be afraid to be curious. That's, I think, one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Yeah. And, and, you know, honestly, Anger didn't even come to mind, but the fear did because we'd get a lot of questions from employers who ask us, you know, how do we handle this?
When someone says that they're transitioning or how do we handle it? When we have an employee who says they're not comfortable using the same bathroom as someone else who's transitioned. Um, you know, there's all types of questions that come out and, and I hear more of the fear of doing things the wrong way, especially as an employer, not, you know, wanting to make sure that no one is, you know, Discriminating or harassing or that they're not in compliance with some law.
Um, so, you know, what can, what kind of advice or guidance can you give to employers that have that, that fear? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think part of it is, I get it. You want to do right by everybody. You want to follow the relevant laws. You want to have a workplace [00:14:00] where people want to stay and the stakes right now are high.
I can't change that. There are a lot of people who are saying. My workplace isn't showing up for me strongly enough. So I'm looking for a new job. So the stakes are high, but the effort is really important. So I would say if you want to do right by your employees, especially if you have specific people that you're nervous, you're not doing the right things to support, I can't tell you what they need.
But they can so ask them and they might have different needs from each other or different needs at different moments in time. So making space to regularly ask your employees what they need and to be proactive. A lot of companies tell me, well, you know, we'll make our coming out policy as soon as somebody comes out.
We don't, we don't need that benefits guidance because we don't have anybody who's looking to use those benefits. Hmm. That's probably not the case. You have people who don't want to be your Guinea pig, building those systems before you think you need them, because you probably already do is also going to make it so that.
It feels a little bit less reactive. It feels less like we're just throwing this together as quickly as we can, [00:15:00] because the clock is ticking. Somebody needs to feel safe at work. Let's build those spaces in advance. So we're ready when those moments come. You know, I find that sometimes with other policies and practices as well.
Um, Um, for example, with someone who might need to have a, uh, room for nursing for nursing mothers. And they say, well, we don't have anyone that's, that's pregnant right now. We don't need to do anything like this. And it's like, okay, you need to be pre proactive here because it could happen tomorrow. So, uh, so yeah, I mean, I think it's really important.
What, what types of policies and practices would you say that employers should be putting in place? Yeah, so there are a couple of different kind of categories of policy. The first are kind of our baseline of if you have trans employees or you want to have trans employees, these are things you kind of need to have.
The biggest one is a transition guidebook. So if somebody comes out as trans, what are all the different things that are going to need to happen? As an easy example, name changes. If somebody came out in your workplace right now, do you know every single place where that employee's name and pronouns show up in your company's system and [00:16:00] who you need to contact to get that changed?
And you might be thinking, well, I know most of them. How are they going to change their email? How are they going to change their security badge? What about holiday gifting? Are they going to get a letter six months from now? Address to their old name. What are every single place that name is going to show up and what are all the places you can change it and the places that you can't in ways you might be able to write, have a workaround like my HR leader from my earlier job.
What is everywhere that employee's name shows up? What are all of our coverage options for our company health insurance? What are the policies for speaking with managers? What are our protocols for discussing with clients, right? All the different areas that might be impacted by this employee's transition.
Who's going to need to know? How are we going to handle situations that arise? Having that be really publicly available, and available publicly. Without asking you, there are a lot of people who want to know, you know, what might be covered? Is this something, do I think they're ready for me? But once they ask you, do we have a transition guidebook that that wheel is turning, whether or not they're actually ready for that.
[00:17:00] So having that resource be freely available is really important. So transition guidebook is a great baseline, making sure that our insurance benefits are covering gender affirming care coverage for transgender people and their families. And then we start to look at our increased, like our gold standard and our platinum standard of policies.
So our gold standard are things like inclusive bereavement leave. A lot of LGBTQ people, not just transgender, are cast out from our families. We have to build our own families called chosen families of friends, partners, neighbors, and roommates that are often not covered in traditional bereavement leave, even though these people play the role of mother, sister, child.
And we don't get that same space to grieve a lot of the time because those aren't. Blood relatives. So having inclusive bereavement leave policies that include language around, you know, what immediate family means to you within reason, right? You can't be taken off for 15 funerals. Hopefully you're not having a reason to go to 15 funerals, but having that inclusive policy, really meaningful, inclusive [00:18:00] parental leave as well.
Right. Making sure that men, women, and non binary people all have the ability to take meaningful time off to bond with their children, understanding that transgender men can become pregnant. and give birth. I, I personally don't want to, but I could choose to have a child and I might not be covered in a, you know, pregnancy leave policy because it's not technically maternity leave because I, you know, not legally female anymore.
So some of those inclusive policies around quality of life are our next big step up. And then our platinum standard policy we're starting to see at workplaces like Indeed, which is employee relocation assistance. The reality is in the U S right now, there is an internal refugee crisis. Over 260, 000 transgender, LGBTQ people and their families have had no choice but to flee their home states in fear of persecution.
They can't access their health care, they can't safely use restrooms, they're being considered felony child abusers for supporting their children. So a lot of people are looking to move to the US. Quickly. So [00:19:00] providing those resources to help people get into safer states or providing resources for them to be maybe traveling out of state to get care.
They might not be able to get where they live right now. It's really meaningful as well. So that's that like platinum standard, if somewhere has that, I am certainly making that top priority to apply. Well, how do you find out if, if I'm an employer, you know, what do I do to communicate that to, uh, prospective employees and candidates?
Yeah, it's a great question. Having LGBTQ specific recruitment pages, and in general, inclusion specific recruitment pages, because, again, like I mentioned with my parents, people can't afford to guess wrong. If you're asking me to guess, I'm gonna look somewhere else. So having specific recruitment information around here are our policies for LGBTQ people, here is what's covered, here are our benefits.
Being public about that and then showing up at LGBTQ job fairs. Having an LGBTQ ERG with a presence in the cities where your company has locations or a major visibility. Right? Making [00:20:00] sure that you are showing up proactively. Maybe sponsoring a pride parade or a pride event. Showing up to march. Finding all these little ways to show up.
To be visible, it's really important. Uh, and then having an email where people can ask, you know, if you're curious about life as an LGBTQ employee at this workplace, here's an email for our LGBTQ ERG, reach out. And one of our staff members will talk to you about their own experiences. When I was applying for college and then later applying for jobs, I reached out every single place.
And I said, is there a transgender person here that I might be able to speak to? And if they said no. That was a red flag for me that either they have no transgender people or nobody's willing to say this is a good place to work. And I've had people tell me really honestly, don't work here. I'm staying here because I'm here.
I don't want to look for a new job. They pay me reasonably well, but you should try to find somewhere else. Don't get stuck here like I am. So making sure you have that visibility and communication, it's really important. Yeah, absolutely. Um, we actually have a toolkit at Sherm, uh, that's helpful for employers, but not [00:21:00] necessarily the playbook that you mentioned.
So for employers who may not be Sherm members or for anyone who might be interested in trying to develop a playbook, Do you have resources that they might be able to turn to? Yes, absolutely. Uh, certainly feel free to reach out to me. I'm Ben Green. There's also a phenomenal book by a peer of mine, Dr. A. C.
Foulkes, who's a transgender man as well. And he wrote an amazing book called Everything You Wanted to Know About Your Transgender Coworker, But Were Afraid to Ask. A little bit of a long title, but an Outstanding book, uh, really highly recommend. It goes a lot into policy guidance and different ways that you might show up both interpersonal allyship and with more of that structural support as well.
So, so what other policies or practices have you found most effective in creating an inclusive workplace? So bathrooms are really easy example of inclusive structure and culture in action. Structurally, can I access that bathroom? Are the company [00:22:00] policies that transgender people can use the bathroom that aligns with their identity?
Are the relevant state laws that I am allowed to use that restroom? Is there a physical gender neutral bathroom that I am able to access safely? Culturally, when I walk into that bathroom, do I feel safe doing that? Are there people who are saying, you're in the wrong bathroom? Now, I have a beard, I have a deeper voice, but there was a long time where I didn't have this.
This is about a year old beard. So, I come into bathrooms and people would say, oh, the women's room is over there. And I'd get nervous and I'd say, okay, sorry, and I'd run over to the women's room and they'd say, the men's room is over there. So a lot of transgender people are just holding it all the time, even if they're structurally allowed.
Culturally, it's not safe for them to go in there. So we have to be building both up at the same time. We have to know we have these structures to say, this is our firm stance. And we have to know we have these cultures where people say, I understand why we have these policies. I'm willing to follow them.
I endorse them. And pronouns are an area where I think it's so easy for us to lean really far into structure and then fail [00:23:00] as a result on culture. We tend to hear, okay, pronouns are the best inclusive thing we can do. So let's make it required. Everybody has to share their pronouns and we lean all the way into structure to say we're going to structural our way into our cultural inclusion.
The challenge that comes up with that is first and foremost, that I use sharing pronouns as a way to tell who around me is choosing allyship. Who around me is making the active choice to show up as an ally? When it's required, I don't have that ability anymore. I don't know who around me is deciding I'm an ally versus has been told, you have to put your pronouns in your name.
When we don't include education around why we're doing that, When employees feel like something is being forced down their throat, then they get usually even angrier, even more likely to get upset when somebody asks their pronouns. And so our cultural support goes down when we require pronoun sharing.
So we have to have education and give people the structural. Option to change their pronouns and not just to put them in one time, but to [00:24:00] change it as they, you know, their identity might change in the course of their life, giving them the option, the technological ability, right? We can put it in our zoom name.
We can put it in our email signature. A lot of workplaces are not allowing their employees to share their pronouns. So encouraging it with education, then we can build up our structure and our culture at the same time. Yeah. I actually did a session for an organization that was moving in the, This direction and they wanted to make it mandatory, but we did the training ahead of time and they came back and said, you know, that 90 percent of employees were on board, accepted it.
So they were really pleased with the outcome of the, of the training and everything. But I definitely have heard from others who have said my employees, some of them don't want to, is it okay if I make them do that? So, um, really, really interesting conversation on that, but that's only one, one piece of everything.
But, uh, but that's great. So how can HR professionals approach employees who may be struggling to support their transgender and LGBTQ plus employees? It's a [00:25:00] great question. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. The first thing I would say is making sure that we don't have a double standard of what we view as acceptable treatment of a transgender co worker and of a non transgender co worker.
So as an example, if I come in and pick a new name for my co worker that they do not like and pick new pronouns for them that they do not like, that's an immediate conduct issue, right? That would feel super inappropriate right off the bat to be calling someone something that is not their name. But with transgender people, we say, well, you know, you just have to understand.
People have different beliefs. You have to be okay with being called the wrong name. So as we get into these situations, first understanding what are the different ways we might approach this, if this wasn't a transgender person, would I view this as Still acceptable ways for someone to treat their coworker.
Um, then I would say with our policies, we wanna lean on a behaviors not beliefs framework. We are not gonna write policies around beliefs. That's gonna get really sticky. It's not gonna be very helpful. I can't write a company rule that says you have to [00:26:00] be fully supportive of transgender identities, but I can absolutely write and enforce policies about.
This is a workplace and we are all adults, which means that we use each other's names, our actual names and our actual pronouns. And if you have an issue with that, then you aren't following our workplace policy. Keeping in mind also that by the EEOC, it is considered a hostile work environment or sexual harassment if someone is regularly using the wrong name or pronouns for their coworkers.
It is not a neutral, I'm not picking a side. You are picking a side that is not supported by the law. And there have been some pretty major lawsuits that you do not want to get tangled up in. So ideally we're not going to get all the way to that point, but having conversations with people to say, help me understand where you're struggling.
Cause it can be easy to jump to assumptions about why somebody is stuck, why they don't want to use their coworkers pronouns, why they don't want to share a bathroom with somebody. Somebody, but we don't all the way. No, right. Misinformation is a multi billion dollar industry. Not everybody who is nervous, who is misinformed is [00:27:00] doing it because they are hateful and radicalized, even though it might feel from being on social media, that everybody's very angry.
That's not usually the case. So talking to people saying, Hey, it seems like you're having a really challenging time with our coworkers, new pronouns. Do you want to practice them together? Do you want to talk about ways that might be a little bit confusing for you? And then listen to what they have to say.
You can't get someone where you want them to go until you know where they are stuck. If they're really struggling and they say, I just, I don't believe in it. I can't get on board with it. Maybe take a different approach of talking about how there are lots of ways that our beliefs don't always line up with our behaviors at work.
As an example, I wear much less comfortable shoes at work than I do at home. I email very differently than I text. I do not microwave fish in an office, even though cold fish isn't that good, right? We understand. There's a social contract about the ways we behave at work, even though they're not the beliefs that we hold at home.
So telling people, if you want to have this belief, that's okay. [00:28:00] The beliefs, you can have whatever you want, as long as you treat every single co worker here with respect and tying that to performance reviews, tying that to management criteria, saying, listen, if you refuse to work with a transgender person, that's okay.
That disqualifies you from a management position. You cannot lead if you cannot lead everyone. Sorry, that's our hard line. So being, having the structure to back us up, but leaning on that cultural conversation of saying, help me understand Where you're stuck treating people as human beings with fears and emotions and confusions and experiences, right?
Everybody is a whole person that just wants somebody to hear what they have to say So taking time to listen and then working with them once you know where they're stuck. That's great. I love that Um, the last question here I'm going to ask you, so how can companies stay proactive in their efforts to support transgender and LGBTQ plus employees?
Yeah, it is a great question. I think continuing to stay up to date with your research, you know, whether you are [00:29:00] a Fan of LinkedIn, following a number of great LGBTQ voices who are talking on the front lines about the different new policies that are making a difference. Making sure you're staying up to date on the legislation that's impacting your employees and their families, right?
If you ask employees to travel, making sure you're not sending them to travel in states where they're not legally allowed to use a restroom or where their families wouldn't be able to come and visit them because they have a trans child. Making sure we are aware of all the things that might be impacting them and continuing to check in.
We can be proactive as much as we want. We can do all the research, read all of the books, follow all of the influencers. And there is so much great information to be learning. But at the end of the day. The best thing we can do to support specific employees is ask them what they need. So leaning on our employee resource groups as the experts that they are to tell us what is on the cutting edge of inclusion.
What do you all need? Whether it is including identity surveys or identity questions on a survey that you're doing for your employee engagement to make sure that [00:30:00] LGBTQ employees are feeling safe, showing up as their whole selves at work, right? Making sure that you have. Both the information around the world of what's on the leading edge and that you are listening to your employees of what do they need?
What is your culture? What are their challenges? Because the specific is where you're going to make the biggest difference. Well, you've given us a lot of great information and I've learned quite a bit from you. Ben, it's been wonderful having you here today. It's been great to be here. Thank you. You're welcome.
Well, that's the end of this episode of Honest HR and we'll see you next time.
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