<p>Callie and Erich talk about how to network authentically by actively listening, asking meaningful questions and getting comfortable. <br /><br />They talk about the "tell" for a scripted answer and how conversations with introverts can be the best. This conversation is important for all professionals not just HR pros!</p>
Callie and Erich talk about how to network authentically by actively listening, asking meaningful questions and getting comfortable.
They talk about the "tell" for a scripted answer and how conversations with introverts can be the best. This conversation is important for all professionals not just HR pros!
Calli Z.:
Hey everybody, and welcome back to Honest HR. Today, we are talking about networking, and not what networking is, because I hope that everybody sort of already has gathered that networking is important and that it's a thing that we talk about often, but more about how we can all do it better and learn a little bit more about how other people approach networking with other professionals. So today's guest is Eric Kurschat, who I met at a Chicago SHRM meeting a few months back. Eric and I had had a conversation about things we were passionate about and found that we could talk for hours about the benefits of having and maintaining professional relationships and networking through those relationships. So I'm really excited to have Eric here with me today as we continue our passion filled and high energy conversation. So with that, Eric, thank you so much for being here and welcome to Honest HR. If you wouldn't mind, give us a high level overview of who you are and sort of what you're all about.
Eric Kurschat:
I'm happy to. Thanks for having me on I'm. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. As you mentioned, I'm Eric Kurschat. I am from Michigan originally, but have been here in Chicago for about 19 years now. And when I first moved to Chicago after college, I got a job in HR. I was an HR assistant for Levy Restaurants, which does sports entertainment food service here in Chicago and around the country. And I stayed at Levy for just about 16 years and learned what HR was from the inside out from the perspective of food service hospitality. And then left there about three years ago to transition into my own HR coaching and consulting business, Harmony Insights, and have continued this journey figuring out what HR really is, how to do it, how to network within the community and everything that involves.
Calli Z.:
Awesome. Well, thank you again for being here today. It's funny that I don't think I knew that you were from Michigan. So thank you so much for sharing that. Michigan is also one of my states. So I have Illinois and Michigan, and obviously I live in Wisconsin, so I sort of get to all three of those states pretty frequently.
Eric Kurschat:
It's funny, growing up in Michigan and now being in Chicago and going to Michigan is sort of a getaway. People are often in southwest Michigan to hang out, and I see it as home or I have for so long, and so now to see Michigan as sort of a vacation spot is kind of weird for me.
Calli Z.:
Yeah. Michigan's state conference this year in a couple weeks is actually in Traverse City. And everybody keeps telling me how beautiful that is, and so I'm really excited to go there for the first time too.
Eric Kurschat:
You'll love it.
Calli Z.:
And I will be treating it as some sort of getaway as well. Well, I took a look at your LinkedIn profile and love the part of your tagline that says connection coach. And so you said that you're part of a organization that you've started and you're sort of coaching through that role. But can you share a little bit about what it means to you to have connection coach and be a connection coach for others?
Eric Kurschat:
Yeah. When I first got into my own thing as a small business owner, I had to figure out what my identity was and what my value was for the world. And after being in corporate HR for so long, this was a really eye-opening exercise for me. And I kept coming back to facilitator and trainer sometimes and small business owner. And some of that felt right, but it didn't really hit the nail on the head for me. And then I came to this coaching term, and especially connection coaching. And that really resonated with me because I feel like so much of the work that I do now especially is around connecting HR folks specifically to each other and to ideas and resources that are going to be valuable to them, and maybe connecting HR professionals to themselves in some ways. I do a lot of work with personality and communication assessments. And that is insight that can be so valuable for people. And it's really connection to who you are internally. So this word connection kept coming up over and over. And the concept of guiding people from point A to point B and allowing them or encouraging them to gain insights that they didn't have about themselves and others previously, those two words just came together for me in a way that were really meaningful.
Calli Z.:
Yeah. Like I said, that really, when I was looking at your LinkedIn profile and preparing for this conversation, it struck me. And mainly because I did not have a coach prior to my first networking experience. And I have to tell you that it was miserable. I was in college, and I went to this event and it was sort of networking and a little bit of educational side of it. But I walked in there as a young naive student thinking that everybody was going to be really excited that I was there and everybody would want to talk to me and hear my story. So I practiced my 30 second elevator pitch that they tell you to have ready when somebody says, "Hey, who are you? What are you about?" And I don't think... There might have been the registration person that was like, "Hey, who are you? Nice to meet you." And really, it was just because she was giving me my name tag. But it just would've been a really good thing to have somebody prepare me for that experience instead of standing waiting for people to come to me and being comfortable and confident enough to actually approach other people. And I imagine that that's part of your story that you tell people.
Eric Kurschat:
Yeah. And then the way you approach that is the way that we all do naturally. It's so easy to assume that the rest of the world is just as interested in you as you are interested in you. And it just turns out, whether you're a practitioner or even a small business owner... I work with the DiSC Personality Assessment. I am a huge DiSC nerd. That's another part of my LinkedIn headline there. And I assume that everybody is as interested in DiSC as I am. And you learn very quickly that's not the case. So the challenge then becomes turning that perspective on its head and say, "Okay, it can't be taken as a given that everybody here is interested in me as I am, even though they may appear so on the surface. How do I need to change my approach and change this dialogue so that networking is more comfortable for me and it's more fruitful? Otherwise, if I keep up at this pace, I'm not going to want to do it for too long."
Calli Z.:
Yeah. And when I hear networking, and now I'm a little bit more comfortable with it, but when I had heard networking after that first experience, I don't want to say terrified, I was scared of those sorts of interactions. And I imagine that networking is scary for a lot of people, especially if they're going into an established group of people who have these relationships that they've been sort of cultivating for a long time, and this individual walking in is a newbie. So what sorts of suggestions do you have for first timers or people who are familiar with networking, but going to a new group for the first time, or anybody that's really looking to improve their networking skills?
Eric Kurschat:
Yeah. What you're saying really resonates with me as well. I identify with being introverted. There are honestly some nights when, if given an opportunity to go out into an event or a room full of people I don't know or stay perfectly happy on the couch by myself, I'm going to choose the couch naturally. But that isn't necessarily always going to be the best decision for me professionally. And so I very quickly had to get to a place where I was more comfortable networking, especially with people I didn't know. And that term can be so loaded. I think just calling it networking can be a turnoff for folks. And I really wanted to begin to have conversations with people about how we can network in ways that are more comfortable and fruitful for us, depending on our unique personal style, which is something I mentioned earlier that I spent a lot of time with.
I will be honest, the first 10 seconds of almost any networking event, I'm planning an escape route. I'm thinking, "How do I get out of the scenario?" Which it can be counterproductive, we'll put it that way. So I very quickly had to get to a point where I thought, "All right, how do I make this doable for me?"
The very first tactic that I chose to use was to consider success a single conversation, not 10, not even five, which you just assume you have to come home from a networking event with a million business cards. If that was my goal, I wasn't going to want to be there. So I thought, "All right, well, rather than climbing out the window 10 seconds into this thing, if I can just have one meaningful conversation with somebody, maybe off to the side, maybe in the corner, in a space that is more comfortable for me and conducive to the way I connect with people, that is a beginning." And almost inevitably after that first conversation, I wanted to have a second and a third. And I warmed up to the idea that this could really be an enjoyable experience.
Calli Z.:
It's so funny that you say that because I'm thinking back to when you and I met at that Chicago SHRM meeting, and both of us waited until the room was pretty much empty before we had our meaningful conversation. Because when there's so many people around, it's sometimes overwhelming. And I think you and I sort of hung back for 10, 15 minutes after everybody else had left. And that was really when you and I got into the sort of nitty gritty of our conversation. So as you were saying that, I was like, "You know what? That was a lot more comfortable for me than any of the other conversations I had that day because I was waiting or watching in my peripherals for somebody else to come up and want to say something or I was distracted with everybody in the room." So yeah, that's a very profound comment that you make, and it's certainly something that I now am noticing about some of my interactions that I've had recently.
Eric Kurschat:
To get the most out of any networking event, I will often be either the first one there and/or the last one to leave for the exact reason that you're mentioning. I am most comfortable having those one-on-one conversations when there's just less noise in the room, fewer people tugging at my sleeve or the other person's sleeve to have a separate side conversation. And if I feel like I have the time and the space to really get to know you, I say in an intimate way, intimate of course, with air quotes around it, but separate and apart from the buzz that often happens in a networking space, that's where I feel like I really shine as an introvert. And I really believe that introverts quite often bring strength to networking events that are uniquely fruitful.
Calli Z.:
I would agree. And actually, as you keep mentioning things that introverts like, I usually identify with extroverts, but I'm like, "I like the couch and I like it when there's less people in the room." So maybe I am an introvert. But at any rate. Another thing I wanted to mention too, just about networking experiences and some suggestions that I have for our listeners as a young professional. And like I said, I've said this a couple times on the podcast, but I will always identify as a young professional, so even though I may not be part of that segment at some point in my career. Young professionals walking into conversations often feel like they're looked at as somebody who automatically doesn't have credibility due to their age or due to their appearance or whatever it is.
And so one suggestion that I have for people and something that somebody had shared with me along the way was that when you step into conversations as a young professional, or as somebody that maybe doesn't have credibility in that space yet, play to the other person's ego. And what I mean by that is start the conversation about their experience and what they would tell you about their experience as an HR, or what they think is the best part of HR. Don't jump into the conversation talking about you first, because that will turn other individuals off, especially if they're already looking at you without any credibility. Start by asking them about their experience and them about their expertise, so that they feel like you are coming to them as a mentor, so to speak. And I think that has helped me recently have these conversations and start conversations around credibility. So I share that more as sort of a piece of advice that I thought of as I was preparing for this conversation with Eric. So I'll turn it back over to Eric. And that's sort of my favorite conversation starter as I think about networking experiences. But do you have any favorite conversation starters or ways that you start conversations in these sorts of environments?
Eric Kurschat:
I love that you say that. And you've teed up those conversation so perfectly with the how of networking. One of the reasons that I love your podcast in general is that you get into the how of things. And how we network is what's going to make or break it for us. And I love your suggestion about putting the spotlight on somebody else's, as I like to think of it. Quite often networking is uncomfortable for us because we feel that we're walking around with that spotlight on us. You said at the beginning of our conversation, you come into it assuming that the world is interested in what you're doing and feeling like you have to get something out of it otherwise you haven't been successful.
And the extent to which we can, and should I argue, take that spotlight off of ourselves and put it on somebody else, and first and foremost, be of service to them, instead of assuming we have to have our own needs met, we will get our own needs met. I think Zig Zigler and other people have talked about the universal law of reciprocity. That is, if you help enough other people get what they want, you will get what you want. And so if we can spend some time in the networking event focused on other people, have them feel, as you described, happy with their own accomplishments or proud of what they have done, you will be building more genuine rapport with people as you go.
In terms of beginning those conversations, one of the things that I recommend most regularly to people, especially those of us who want to, we'll say, get away from the small talk and that superficial sort of back and forth that seems so scripted, it's scripted because you're asking quite often scripted questions. You're asking, "What do you do?" And people have heard that a million times and they've prepared their elevator speech. And so they're going to give you a scripted response. If instead of asking, "What do you do?" you start out with, "Why do you do what you do?" that's something that people aren't used to hearing, and immediately in their demeanor, you're going to see that they don't have a scripted response for it. Whatever they say is going to be so much more interesting and so much more meaningful and so much better as a catalyst for conversation than anything that they could have said in response to, "What do you do?" That why is so critically important for having conversation that really matters.
Calli Z.:
As you were talking, I was trying to figure out how I would answer that question, and I'm still thinking through that. So I think that is a great suggestion to get away from that scripted sort of back and forth, "I am an HR generalist. I am an HR manager," and assuming that we know by that title what that other person is doing. I really like that suggestion. And I think my suggestion, and this comes from an article, because again, for the record, everybody listening, I do prepare for these conversations, but I found an article about 30 brilliant networking conversation starters. And there were some really crazy ones on there that I would never ask in a professional networking situation. But one that really resonated with me, and it kind of goes along with what Eric just said, but, "What's your story? Tell me about your story."
And that can go in any direction. And again, to Eric's point, I would argue that nobody has really sort of thought of telling their story, unless they've planned a speech or a presentation or something for a conference. But the, "What's your story?" would be a really great way to see into somebody's sort of vibe given which way they take that answer. So it could go professional, it could go personal, it could go something that happened to him just yesterday. So I really liked that idea. And I think between Eric's, "Why do you do what you do?" and sort of, "What's your story? What's your vibe?" I think those are really good examples of starting a conversation differently in these sorts of environments.
Eric Kurschat:
I think the least effective approach is asking nothing at all, standing there and expecting people to begin the conversation with you. Maybe the second least effective approach is close ended questions, "Are you enjoying this event?" or the things that can be answered with yes or no, just brief questions. And if it helps break the ice, then by all means, go for it. But I think the best conversations are going to begin with something open ended where there isn't a simple yes/no answer and something that really takes somebody by surprise in a good way. And I love that, asking people, "What's your story?" Because there's no scripted answer.
And you know how you're going to get a... You can tell when you're going to get a scripted answer, and I've noticed this in the conversations I've had, as soon as somebody responds with, "Yeah, so..." Yeah, so... And then whatever that follows, that's usually, and I hope I didn't say this earlier when you asked me for my own background, but yeah, so usually is your sign that whatever's going to follow has been said by that person a million times. It's a script that they have prepared and they're ready to go into it, and it often begins with, "Yeah, so I am a blah, blah, blah." If instead of getting yeah, so, you get sort of a cocked head or a little bit of a look that you didn't expect or a pause at the very least, whatever's going to follow is going to be so much more interesting.
Calli Z.:
It's so funny that you say that because just yesterday, my husband was helping me prepare for these sorts of conversations, and he told me that I say, yeah after the other individual that I'm talking to stop talking. So you are so right. And most of that is because I'm ready to sort of take it into the next stage of the conversation. I'm poised to affirm that yep, I heard you, but I'm also already ready to think into that next step. So you are so right. And like I said, I just had a conversation with my husband yesterday about not having that be the first word that I say after somebody else either asks me a question or ends their statement. So that's so funny. And I have to give him a shout out, because he's going to feel so great about the fact that he gave me that feedback, and I said, "Yeah, okay. Yeah, I got it." So that's great.
Eric Kurschat:
I'm sure I've done that myself. It's something that we all do and it's actually a strength. It means that you're a certain personality and communication style where you are thinking ahead and you prioritize progress, you value moving forward. And those are strengths. In networking conversations, that can also work to your great advantage if you need to further the conversation in some way, if it's been stagnant for a little while. But at the same time, the potential limitation is that you end up moving forward too quickly for the person that you're speaking with, who may want to spend a little bit more time focused on him or herself, or maybe even asking you some questions that would allow you to provide additional information that maybe you hadn't expected to be able to get out in the open. Being mindful of these things is so important. And it's so great to have a husband or a friend or a colleague who will give you honest feedback about those tendencies that they perceive.
Calli Z.:
I agree. And it comes back to your whole connection coach idea, having somebody that will say, "You started that conversation a little bit too scripted or a little bit too robotic," and that's not something that I would have known about myself. So I completely agree with having somebody give you that honest feedback.
The next thing I want to sort of jump into is this phrase or this statement that we hear often about networking, and it's the best way to create job opportunities for yourself is through your professional network. And this resonates with me because I have seen job opportunities open for me through my network. But how do you feel about that statement? Do you believe that? And do you have any success stories about getting jobs through networks or other people getting jobs through networks that you would be comfortable sharing with us?
Eric Kurschat:
Yeah. We could clear our schedules and talk all morning just about this topic alone. I do quite a bit of career coaching myself as well, and I volunteer for organizations such as Chicago SHRM, a local SHRM chapter, and the Career Transition Center downtown. So I spend a lot of time with folks who are in job transition. And quite often when I ask, which I often do, start out by asking what their job search strategy is, people will say, "Well, I get up in the morning and I'm still in my pajamas, and I sit down at my computer. And at the end of the day, I've submitted however many resumes. And I keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best." And of course I'm paraphrasing and exaggerating a bit. But I think that pays off maybe 3 to 4% of the time based on the studies. As soon as you start connecting with people face to face and they get a sense of who you are beyond the black and white piece of paper that they received from you, your opportunities multiply. I was going to say skyrocket, and I thought that was exaggeration. But in some cases, your opportunities can skyrocket. Because you're building meaningful rapport with people.
On a resume, if you don't hit those maybe three or four things in their job description that they think are absolutely vital to or important in any candidate that they interview, your resume is rarely going to convince them otherwise. They'll take you out of the mix simply because you're not meeting those particular qualifications. Which by the way, are qualifications or job descriptions that are written for somebody who doesn't exist. You have to be detail oriented and visionary. You have to be people focused and task focused. It's sort of a conglomeration of the past four or five people that didn't fit in that particular role.
Without going on too much of a tangent then, as soon as you can begin to connect with people in person, face to face, and they can come to know who you are, who Callie is beyond the black and white resume they received from you, suddenly those qualifications that maybe you don't bring to the table or the things that you're a little nervous about because you're not sure that you're quite sufficient for any particular role that you happen to be interviewing for, melt away. They're forgiven because you bring so much more in terms of personality and strength and skill and rapport to the conversation that they would never have gotten from you out of a simple resume.
Calli Z.:
And I've been thinking about various LinkedIn taglines, for example, or the objective statement on a resume, and how can we get our personalities to shine through on that? And I think at some point, it's just not going to happen. You're not going to find the right word to let your personality shine through in a black and white paper situation. So I really appreciate that comment. And I'm going to plug a project that you're working on right now that I think lends to this topic very well, and I hope you don't mind. But you have this network of HR individuals in Chicago called, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's Chicago HR Masterminds, I believe. And this is a network that you've created sort of from scratch. And I am lucky enough to be part of it. And I'll tell you, the job posts and the, "Hey, does anybody know a person at this company that I'd like to be a part of?" Or, "Does anybody have any suggestions for getting my foot in the door at this company?" is great. I love that you've created this environment for people to sort of reach out to other people in this group to say, "Hey, can somebody help me out?" Without that sort of connection and without those opportunities, I think we sometimes fall into that pattern of just throwing resumes at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Eric Kurschat:
I appreciate that. Yeah, you're kind of enough to bring that up. I started the Chicago HR Mastermind two years ago with the goal of just bringing together, if I could, 10 or 12 HR professionals to begin building rapport with them. HR continues to be a target audience of mine and a community that I just want to remain very close to. And I thought if I can bring 10 or 12 people together for a mastermind style conversation on an ongoing basis, those would be good relationships for me to have. I will grow myself out of them and hopefully they will be developing themselves as well. And over the course of two years, that has turned into over 1200 members currently in three chapters around Chicago and has caught on in ways that I certainly did not expect. And I honestly do believe that it comes back to the opportunity for people to connect in person, to get something unique out of the experience.
And for a lot of people, we just had a meet up last night as a matter of fact, and there was a woman who stood up and gave a testimonial that she had gotten her first phone interview in I think it was three months or something through connections in the Chicago HR Mastermind. And she simply showed up to an event, she was intentional about how she was spending her time. She made herself visible to attendees. She engaged in meaningful conversation with them, meaningful problem solving conversation that we have. And out of that came phone interviews. People have even gotten jobs. And you find very quickly that given the right community, folks are very service-oriented, very selfless in the job opportunities that they offer up to others.
And I will just add to that that I have found the exact same in Chicago SHRM. I've been active with Chicago SHRM for a couple of years now. And the networking that happens there and the connection that happens at the monthly round tables, for example, which is one of my favorite events to attend, is unparalleled. I don't see that elsewhere, because it's a community of people who are really motivated, very eager to connect with one another, and to be a resource in whatever way possible to help somebody else grow themselves in their career. And that's just something that I feel like I can't get enough of these days.
Calli Z.:
And one thing that I noticed that has been successful, and unfortunately I haven't gotten a chance to come to the mastermind meetings yet because I've been traveling on every single time you have it, so let me know when you're ready to look at my schedule before you start scheduling these so I can make it, but one of the things that Chicago SHRM does that I enjoy at their meetings, is they'll have people raise their hand if they're looking for jobs, and they'll have other people stand up if they have job opportunities available, so that at the end of the meeting, these people can seek each other out. And I think if you create an environment where that's a comfortable thing for people, it's a great way to say, in a sort of organic or natural way, this person over here is looking for something, this person over here has something. And if you haven't found each other through natural networking at this event, be, as you said before, strategic about seeking these people out after we've concluded this meeting. And I think that's a great suggestion for other groups like either Chicago SHRM or this Masterminds to maybe start doing at future events.
And it does mean that people have to be comfortable raising their hand and saying, "Yes, I'm looking," or, "Yes, I have an opportunity." Because sometimes we attend these things with our boss or with our coworkers. So if that's the case, you take a mental note of the people standing up giving you job opportunities and seek them out at a later time.
Another thing I do want to mention, Eric, before I turn it back over to you for anything you want to add, is that I've noticed personally that it's so important at these events or really any event that you go to, that you are yourself and real and authentic 100% of the time, because you really don't know who your next boss is going to be. I have been to so many conferences in the last couple of weeks. I was in Ohio, I was in Puerto Rico, I was in Illinois, and I'm going to be in Michigan and Wisconsin at their state conferences as well. And I interact with upwards of 500 people at those events. The chances are that I have talked to somebody who I have interviewed with in the past or who I've applied to for a job. And to keep those relationships comfortable and active, I need to make sure that when I'm interacting with them, I am, as I said authentic. And it comes back to the title of this podcast, Honest HR. Be authentic, be yourself 100% of the time, because if you are one way in a networking event and then you sit in front of them in an interview and you're a completely different person, it's going to be really hard for them to sort of hone in and understand you as a person.
So I just wanted to sort of share that. I know we have opportunities at networking events to have alcohol or have food or something. We just need to be really careful about that, because as I said, you never know who you're interacting with in that moment. And I'm winking, not speaking from experience people. I'm just helping you as a outsider looking in. So with that, Eric, is there anything... That sort of comes to the close of our questions, but is there anything that you sort of missed that you want to share with our listeners before we say goodbye?
Eric Kurschat:
You know what? So many things could be mentioned. But I think one of the things that comes to mind is just a very brief story. My wife and I went to visit some friends of hers. And when we talk about networking and making it work for us, we talk about, as you mentioned earlier, how you can put the spotlight on somebody else and maybe ask meaningful questions, listen actively, but then also follow up with meaningful questions. And my wife and I went to visit friends of hers that have five children that they adopted in a very short amount of time, which is already impressive.
But the youngest of the five, his name is Derek, four years old at the time, walks up to us when we come in the door. "Derek, this is Katie. You remember Katie. She's a teacher." And I could tell immediately something was going to happen. I didn't know what it was, but he was looking down at Derek like something was expected of him. And this was a four year old, so I wasn't sure what was going to come next. And Derek paused for a moment and he got a big smile on his face and he said, "What do you teach?" And I was blown away. I tell this story in my workshops and sometimes people are like, "Yeah, big deal." The big deal about that is that a four year old was cognizant enough of the situation and his role in this dialogue to ask a meaningful follow up question.
I regularly spend time with adults and I have been an adult and continue to be an adult who struggles engaging with people in this authentic way that you're talking about. Some of that authenticity goes out the window when you've prepared too polished of a script, especially when it comes to networking events. If you can open yourself up to the possibility that you don't know where a conversation is going to go, you don't know who the next introduction is going to be to. You don't know what somebody's going to be interested in hearing from you. And you don't know what you don't know. And taking a moment to ask a meaningful follow up question to demonstrate that you're listening actively, to be intentional about those organizations like Chicago SHRM and the Chicago HR Mastermind, where you can practice these skills. Suddenly, not only is your job search so much more fruitful, and if you're a service provider, your attempt to get in front of potential clients so much more fruitful, but I would argue that life becomes so much more fruitful and rewarding. And if a four year old can do it, then I think we can do it as well.
Calli Z.:
I agree. And I just want to take a second to say thank you. You've certainly given me things to think about as I enter all of these networking experiences that I have as part of my role here with SHRM. And I want to make sure that we continue allowing you to network with our listeners. So in that sort of vein, how can people connect with you if they want to continue this conversation or want to get involved in some of the things that you're doing?
Eric Kurschat:
Thank you. A couple of places. And I've really enjoyed this conversation. Again, I wish we had all day for it. But I know that you're trying to keep them to a certain time limit, and for good reason too. They are more easily digested that way. Harmony Insights is my main business. You can find that at harmonyinsights.com, and of course across social media. I do a lot of curating of other people's content to share. And a lot of it has to do with the pursuit of meaningful work and productive workplace relationships. I mentioned I do a lot of work with the DiSC Personality Assessment, so that's kind of thrown in that mix. The Chicago HR Mastermind can be found at hrhotseat.com. There's a lot of information there for HR professionals in Chicago who want to get together to expand their networks and problem solve. And we have free monthly meetups in some pretty cool places. And the last thing I want to mention is that I put together a PDF of top 10 tips for effective networking that have worked for me, many of which we haven't even gotten to. And I make that available, if you go to harmonyinsights.com/network, you'll be able to get access to that PDF. And I'm happy to share that with your audience.
Calli Z.:
Great. I'm typing it in literally as we speak here. So I will take a look at that for sure. And again, please listeners, reach out to Eric. He's obviously a great resource. And let's learn from this episode and network with each other by connecting and starting conversations as a result of this podcast. I think it's a great opportunity for us to use this podcast in such a way that really is meaningful and helps us grow our network. So if you want to connect with me directly, please feel free to reach out on LinkedIn or on Twitter and Instagram. I'm @SHRMCallieZ. You can subscribe to updates about the podcast, including new episodes, at shrm.org/honestHR. Or if you have suggestions around guests or upcoming topics, you can do that there as well. You can also find us on iTunes or Spotify or really wherever else you listen to your podcasts. And if you like what you hear, please consider giving us a rating. It really helps us out. And again, thanks for coming out and we will see you next time for a new episode of Honest HR.