Callie and Drew talk The Office, being a DOO (Department of One) and HR as a calling not a career.
Callie and Drew talk The Office, being a DOO (Department of One) and HR as a calling not a career.
Callie Z:
Hi everyone. And welcome back to Honest HR. I'm your host, Callie, and I'm excited to be back with another episode for you all. Happy to have our first timers and long timers with us today. As a reminder, we're trying to reach as many different people and as many different segments of HR as we can, so we change our topics and our guests for every episode. The one thing that does remain the same though is the fact that we aim to have honest and authentic conversations at all times.
So today I'm excited to be joined by Drew cherry. And we'll be talking about the folks that find themselves in an HR DOO or department of one. But before I let you tell him about himself, I want to share how we met. Drew has a online presence, a social presence, as do I, and we actually had been following each other on social media and had the opportunity to meet face to face at the HR Indiana conference this year, actually just a couple of weeks ago I think. That was sort of after tweeting and retweeting at each other.
And I share this because without social media, Drew and I probably would never have connected, and we wouldn't be here dropping knowledge on you today. So social media is important, no matter what your 90 year old grandma tells you, as cute as she may be. But it's certainly something that's brought us together and I'm excited to bring an episode to you all with Drew. So anyways, Drew, welcome and thanks again for being here. And before we jump into our department of one topic, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey through HR, and what you're currently doing with your current company.
Drew Cherry:
Yeah. Thanks Callie. I'm so stoked to be here, I'm a big fan of your work here on the podcast. And more than anything, I'm just excited to be talking HR with you today. Just a couple things about me before we jump in that may come up later in the podcast and in the conversation, one, I love NBC's The Office and I make a lot of references and a lot of quotes. And I'll try not to do that too much, but if we have anybody listening to the conversation who has not seen it, I apologize in advance for that.
And then, two, kind of random, but I look very young. I'm 30 years old. Hopefully I still count as a young professional at this point. But if I were to shave my beard, I look like a 15 year old boy, and I was just told this week that even with the beard, I look 22. So I hope I still count as a young professional with those things, but might come up later in the conversation, some of the challenges that I've faced out there with those things.
But so just a little bit about, about me and my story and how I ended up in HR-
Callie Z:
Dude, before you go on, I have to meet you with The Office, I love that show and I have a certain place in my heart for Toby because I love him more than life itself. But I also am told often that I look young as heck. I had an experience with an EMT recently, who said the person who called to report said that I looked like I was 14, so I feel you. And the bangs that I recently got does not help, but we're still crushing it so here we are.
Drew Cherry:
Absolutely, absolutely. So my story, I lucked into HR as you guys have so eloquently put here on the podcast. I love that term a bit. I changed my major in college and really wanted to find something where I could impact people and serve others, and HR has been such a great fit for me. Even on my toughest days in HR, that we all have, I've never regretted that decision. So I definitely love what I do.
But after college, it was 2010 and a tough time to find jobs, but I was very fortunate to find an opportunity with a manufacturing company that was growing pretty rapidly. There were about a hundred employees and did not have an HR department at the time. The HR function was kind of spread throughout the organization, different people doing different things. And so I was really tasked to come on board in a more entry level HR position, but just to get everything in one place. And so do the basic administrative task and run payroll and some of these different things.
And I have to tell you, so I accepted that opportunity, but I don't know that I knew what I was getting into. It felt like a capstone project. Was I really paying attention in college and all my training, and now I have to go apply this somewhere, and the stakes are kind of high, because this is the real world. But it turned in to be a great opportunity for me, and one that I could grow with the company in.
So after about a year, I moved into an HR manager position there and the department continued to grow. Throughout the years there, took the department from no one there to a department of four, worked with some really great HR professionals, and helped develop them. Really fond memories there, a great opportunity.
And then after seven years with that company, I decided it was time to make a change and go prove that I could be successful somewhere else. Fortunate to find Public Safety Medical, which is my current employer here. I am an HR manager here and back in a department of one for the second time in my career, so it's been a fun journey. The organization here is great. We serve police, fire, and EMS personnel, so it's very missional, and there's a lot of meaning behind why we do what we do and I'm loving it.
Callie Z:
I don't want to make your head any bigger than it already is, but like it took me seven years to get in an HR manager job, and it took you like a year. So I give you kudos for that, sounds like you were really crushing it at your manufacturing company. That's a really cool story and I appreciate you sharing it. So I find it particularly interesting that you spent over seven years with Applied Composites Engineering, which was the company you're at prior to where you're at now.
First, I find it interesting because young professionals, and I say this in quotes, don't stay anywhere longer than three years. And second, I find it interesting because you worked your way into that HR manager role, as I just mentioned. So tell us about why you stayed as long as you did and why you think that's so important to your career path.
Drew Cherry:
Yeah. So a quick sidebar on that. I do think the millennial stereotype is not staying long in a job, like you previously mentioned, but I think sometimes we as millennials get a bad rap in some cases. I do believe in differences and values to some degree in generations, but maybe not to the level that's the perception out there. But I think we as millennials, we want just a few things. One, we want to do work that matters, we want to know how we're doing, and we also want to know that our contribution is valued. And I think that really transcends any generational differences. We all want that, and I think we, as organizations, need to do a better job of providing that for people, regardless of how old or how young someone is.
But yes, I've been told that before. I know I'm kind of changing the millennial stereotype by staying in my first job for seven years. It was one that challenged me and that's why I kept coming back. Obviously I saw some progression, as I mentioned, moving into that HR management role. I was very loyal to the employees that I helped develop there. And there was something really satisfying about seeing something that you helped build grow. I mean, that was very personal for me. It was my life's work, so to speak, at that point at the ripe young age of 22. Also, the organization, there was never a dull moment in that organization. There was always a new challenge, always something new going on. So I never really felt like I was coasting in that role, and that's what kept me coming back.
Callie Z:
Yeah. And I think that's so important if you feel like you are continuously challenged and continuously given new opportunities or new responsibilities, I think it's an easier place to stay, right? And full disclosure, I think I've shared this on a previous podcast, I am one of those young, and again, I say that in quotes, but you can't see me, one of those young professionals that hasn't stayed anywhere longer than actually in my case two years. So I get it and I know that my path is similar to other millennials, but different in the sense that all of my moves were for good reason I think.
The next thing I think I want to hear from you is about that HR manager role specifically. So we talked about how you were in your HR generalist role for about a year, and then you stepped into that HR manager role. Help us understand, because I know when students are graduating, they're looking for like that HR generalist, HR manager sort of role. And when they see people like you actually get that role out of college, sometimes they are less inclined to take that HR coordinator or HR assistant job.
So help us understand how that HR manager role came to be. Was it created for you? Was it perfect timing because someone had just left? I think you said you were building the department from the ground up, so that might help us a little bit. But just help us understand how you got there and the path that you had to take to get into that role and maybe some of the hard work that you had to put in to get that as well.
Drew Cherry:
Absolutely. That's a great question, especially thinking about new grads, which I was at the time. If I would've had these lofty expectations and got concerned about my title, even the compensation that I have, I may have not taken that job and missed out on a tremendous opportunity because I did start in a highly administrative role there, even though there was an upside, which was nice. So for any new grads out there, be open minded. The experience that you gain is the most valuable thing that you have beyond your title and beyond the pay and benefits even in some cases. So I know that was true for me.
Becoming an HR manager within a year, it may sound impressive to some, but it's kind of funny. It was actually quite simple. It was a conversation with the owner of the company saying, "Hey, we need some more help here because I've got all these things going on. Could I get some more help?" We determined that we needed someone to help come in and work with payroll and benefits and some of the more other administrative functions that I was already doing. And as a result of that conversation, it's like, "Oh, well you're our new HR manager now." It sounds a lot better than it probably was in reality.
But there were some real challenges for me adjusting into that, learning to be a manager. I'm someone who naturally likes to do things myself in some ways, and learning to delegate and to spend the bulk of my time developing someone who reported to me was a huge transition. And no doubt, I fell flat on my face several times, but had a great employee to get things started with and help me learn in that opportunity. I think I did earn some trust there in that first year, which was critical to getting that promotion because it could have easily been, "Well, we need someone with more experience and we do need to expand the department," but that's not how it went and I'm thankful for that.
Callie Z:
What's so funny is that when I said HR manager, it didn't even occur to me that the reason that you had that title was because you supervised somebody else. I don't know why I was just thinking HR manager role and more sort of HR generalist responsibilities, but you're absolutely right. You have to be ready when you take that HR manager role to actually manage or supervise other people. So again, I'm sort of just sharing my a-ha moment with our listeners, but to be an HR manager means to actually manage or supervise somebody else. So for those wanting an HR manager role right out of college, you have to have that supervisory and leadership and management experience in order to be successful in a role like that.
I appreciate you sharing your insight with us there, Drew. And I'm going to shift gears now to your time with Public Safety Medical. As you had been previously, you are solely responsible for the HR function at your current company. And if you are not, I want to see what everybody else is doing because your LinkedIn profile hits literally every HR function I can think of. So tell us a little bit about your role there and how you felt prepared to take on that HR department of one situation again.
Drew Cherry:
Yeah. I love how you bring up my LinkedIn profile and yes it does. I do list just about everything with the company as far as HR responsibilities, don't I? And I would say there's even some more things that I do that are not on that LinkedIn profile because that's life in a small business. If you're someone who frequently says, "Well, that's not my job," or "Why can't someone else do that," you're not really cut out to be in a small company because you have to wear a lot of hats. So there's even some really random things that I help with and that I do beyond just the HR function, just because if you stop and think who else is going to do this, there's no one else. So you have to be very willing to wear multiple hats.
But yes, you are correct. I am back in an HR department of one, although I am still an HR manager so that's where the titles kind of get confusing. But back in the department of one. It's a really interesting experience a second time around. The first time around with Applied Composites Engineering, going back to being just a young, dumb kid at 22 taking on that responsibility, I really had the most to learn in terms of just general experience and being comfortable being an HR professional and knowing how to handle myself in situations. And you just don't have that background the first time around. This time around with Public Safety Medical, it's more so just the social component, which is one of the struggles with being a department of one. I really underestimated how difficult it would be to go from being in a department of four, where I had these great other HR people around me, and you have this camaraderie, you can bounce ideas off of each other to well now you're on your own again.
To give you an example, we recently moved facilities and now we're in a great space here that everyone's on one floor. But when I started with Public Safety Medical, the company and staff were on four different floors. I was on the top floor, and Fridays randomly were the worst. There were very few people that worked on Fridays up on that floor, and I was up by myself up there most of the time on those days, and it was scary how excited I would get if someone came up to the top floor to talk to me.
So I started to realize that was a problem. I needed to go where the people were and take HR on tour so to speak. That was a lesson that I learned that, yes, I mean, it can be overwhelming, but it also can be very lonely, and it just highlights the importance of creating relationships and getting out to where the people are. Because when you're one person, especially if you're the only person up on the top floor, people aren't going to head your way as much as maybe you would like them to. But the department of one life, it's not for everybody. It does have its challenges. Certainly if you've got a well rounded background and you like doing different things, I mean, you can't really specialize in anything because you're the guy or the girl for whatever needs are there, but it can be a really rewarding experience because those successes that you have, I mean, they're yours.
Callie Z:
Do you ever feel, Drew, like you are stretched too thin? And I'm not saying that you're not doing your job great, but do you ever feel like at some point you just want to be an expert in something and you don't have the opportunity to do that as a department of one?
Drew Cherry:
Yeah. I mean, there's times when you think about that. If you're working on something you really enjoy, "Wow, I really wish I could do more of this," or something you're not doing, "I really wish I could do less of this." But that's part of the deal. Those times where you're doing those things you enjoy get you through the times where you're maybe not looking as forward to something else. Every day is different, and that's part of the beauty of it.
Callie Z:
Which executive or higher level leader do you report to in your role?
Drew Cherry:
So in my current role, which there is some transition going on to give you some background, the person who was in my role before was in a VP of HR role. And she has transitioned out of the business and to start her own coaching and consulting company, which is really good for her. I do see her every now and again. But really I report to the owner of the company, although I do work hand in hand with a lot of the other leadership team. But the structure varies from company to the company is always interesting.
Callie Z:
Yeah. And so the reason that I asked that question is, and I probably should have started with this so you didn't feel like I was blindsiding you, but how easy is it as an HR individual to be able to use your facts and figures to talk business to that owner? Because I'm imagining that that person doesn't necessarily have the HR lingo or the people side of things all wrapped up. So how do you sort of help them understand the people aspect of it by talking numbers and things like that from an owner's point of view?
Drew Cherry:
So I think first of all, you have to understand the business by any means necessary. And that's something just because I've been here for a little over year, still learning that. But taking time to shadow, to spend time with others, to understand their challenges and the positions, and be able to provide that intuitive feedback on what you think's going on when there are people challenges. But also, you have to be able to, at least in small organizations, show your work, and so developing metrics and reporting out KPIs, which are some of the things that I've worked on here are really important to be able to back up that intuitive knowledge of what the business does and what's going on with some facts and figures when you need to. So I think it's a balance, but making sure that you develop a relationship with that owner or leader of your company, to where they're going to come to you if there's an issue, and you develop that trust from there.
Callie Z:
I love what you said. HR needs to understand the business and be a better business partner. I know that's something that we've had multiple conversations about previously to the role that I'm currently in, but SHRM is also pushing for that as well. So I'm so excited that you mentioned that. And spoiler alert all of our listeners, I didn't actually pay him to say that.
At any rate, we'll move on to my next question. You sort of touched on it a little bit in one of your answers, but I would imagine as an HR department of one, it's important to have resources and materials and a network at your disposal since you don't really have a sounding board to use at work. So can you share with us some of the things that you use to make sure that you're having your act together at work?
Drew Cherry:
Just the first thing that pops into my mind is you have to be able to network to keep your act together, as you mentioned. I love that. And it's something I've been working on more recently. I wouldn't say that it's a huge strength of mine, it's something that certainly needs development, but it's actually part of the reason that we're talking, which is what you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation. Just in the last three, four months, I've really made a conscious effort to try to be more active on Twitter for the HR side of things in business. And there is such an amazing, positive, supportive group of HR people out there on Twitter. So if you're listening to this and you're not on Twitter for business, please go out there, follow Callie, follow a lot of the other great HR professionals out there because some connections to people in different areas of the country are possible. And I've just been amazed by that.
And of course that doesn't replace the in person networking that you need to do and making sure that you have people that you can bounce ideas off of, and also look for opportunities that you can support them. Of course, your local SHRM chapter come to mind, as well as your local HR state conference, which I look forward to every year. Those are all great resources. But a couple things that are unique to me, I like to think of them as secret weapons so to speak, but one, and this is unique, but my wife is actually in HR as well. So I know probably all the department of one people out there are just saying that I'm disqualified for that because I have a sounding board at home. It's so great to have someone that you're so close to that can spark ideas and kind of check yourself if your thinking isn't in line with what it should be. And so I like to brag about her.
She's got this great background. Actually, just couple weeks ago, we were heading up to Chicago and on the way up there, we talked about HR for a majority of the way. And I like to brag about that with some of my HR friends that also enjoy talking about HR. But she's certainly a secret weapon. And then I talked about her a little bit already, but the person who was in my job previously, still has some level of involvement. We have a relationship. And as I mentioned, she's a coach and has this tremendous background. But also what's so unique about her is that she knows the business. So what a tremendous advantage to be in a position and be able to reach out if something comes up in the position that you're in to someone who gets it. I put her in the same category with some other great former supervisors and things that I still keep in touch with to help me make sure that I'm continuing to move forward in my career.
Callie Z:
Having mentors in our back pocket is so vital to our success, I think. As young individuals who are new to HR and new to our careers, having somebody that's been there and done that is again vital to our success. So I appreciate you mentioning your previous supervisor. I'm also a little bit jealous that you live with somebody who gets to talk about HR with you. My husband is not in HR, but I still talk to him about it all the time anyways. So I can identify with you a little bit there.
Another thing I will just mention as part of my secret weapons, I guess, if you will, is, and I used these prior to working for SHRM so I'm not trying to say like, "Hey, I work for SHRM, use all the SHRM things," but before I worked for SHRM, I used SHRM's website at least once a week. The policy templates that are out there, the form templates that are out there, all of that was so helpful to me as a new HR practitioner, because I didn't have a bag of tricks that I could pull from, but SHRM had it all on their website for me.
So I found that to be super helpful as well. And again, I promise that I'm not pushing SHRM product on this podcast just for the sake of doing it. It did actually help me as a new young professional in HR. The last thing, Drew, that I'd love for you to talk about is your development strategy. So you mentioned the local networking things and the local SHRM chapters and things like that, but when you're not surrounded by a team to learn from, it's obviously important to find other ways to continue learning. So how do you identify meaningful courses, webinars, or events to attend?
Drew Cherry:
Yeah, that's a great question, and I don't have a formal strategy in any way, but the working in a department of one what you don't know when someone asks and you don't know. So if you're asked a question by the owner or someone else, and you're like, "Man, I don't have much experience with that, I need to learn more," so you have to be very resourceful. So when I go to the the HR Indiana conference or other training, I'm looking at things, not just that I know I'll enjoy, but those areas that I know I need to improve just based on either the feedback I've gotten or the situations that I've put in. So there's certainly an element of self-awareness and knowing your limits and understanding how to better round you out as an HR professional. So I always am trying to look at things and rely on recent experiences to pick and choose what do I need to focus on and what do I have a handle on at [inaudible 00:25:12].
Callie Z:
So you said that you look forward to the state SHRM conference every year. Tell us what you like most about it.
Drew Cherry:
Oh. Man, that's such a tough question. I love everything about it. The opportunities to network are huge. They have some amazing keynote speakers. Of all the sessions and things that I've attended, a couple stand out to me, and not because I learned something in a tactical way, but really walking away inspired from those. One of them was, I think it was 2015, John Maxwell did the keynote there and really talked about the power of intentional living as well as the power of relationships and how important those things are, not just for HR and your role as HR, but also your life. Another one, and sadly I can't remember his name, but he talked about, I think it was maybe the year before, he talked about why HR matters and that HR is really more of a calling than it is a career.
And that's something that really resonated with me. As HR, we deal with people in these vulnerable situations and things that change their lives, like a job change, a promotion, even something personal that kind of bleeds over into work and they're having a tough time. If you're just thinking about getting your job done, you're going to miss out on so many opportunities to impact people. Those talks just, I still think about them on a regular basis and they really left me inspired and helped me align myself with those philosophies.
Callie Z:
It's so funny that you went straight to inspirational because I'll say... So this was my first year. And for those listeners, we're actually talking about the HR Indiana conference. This was my first year with that group, and I found it so cool that a few of their keynotes weren't really all that much about HR. They were specifically to inspire people. One of them was the Free Hugs guy and people all over the place were crying. I mean, he was so inspirational, but not a whole lot about HR. And sometimes that's what you need. You don't necessarily need to be talking HR law all the time, you just have to remember that people are people, and just be inspired by the fact that you have the opportunity to impact people in your role.
That's not something that I've experienced at other conferences, and so I found that really cool as I left HR Indiana for my first year. So I'm excited to go back as well. So Drew, those are really all of my questions that I have for you, but I do want to take a second to ask you for your mic drop or your ending on a high note sort of thing. So share with us some final thoughts for our listeners.
Drew Cherry:
I guess, if there is a takeaway or a couple takeaways for anyone listening to our conversation, I think it would be that the work that you do as HR professionals matters, whether you see it or not. We get caught up in the mundane a lot, but really there's impact to be made there with people and it's work worth doing. And the second thing I would say is that no one does it alone. So whether you're a department of one or you're in this large department in a large company, don't be afraid to reach out for support when you need it. Look for opportunities to give back and support others because no one's successful on their own.
Callie Z:
I would completely agree with you. And I find it interesting, one of my biggest takeaways and one of the things that I sort of want to get through to our listeners is that it's okay to call HR people who work by themselves an HR department of one and treat them differently because they don't have the sounding board. We need to be aware of that so that we can understand that they need our help, that they're reaching out to us because they need a sounding board for their everyday job, which they don't unfortunately have. So Drew, if there's anybody out there who wants to weigh in on your experience or continue the conversation with you, or just to build your network so that you have more people to reach out to when you have questions in your DOO or department of one role, how can people reach out to you?
Drew Cherry:
Absolutely. I'd love to connect with anyone, especially since that's something that I worked on, I'm working on, so thanks for the opportunity. You can find me on Twitter, of course, @DrewCherryHR, and on LinkedIn, you should be able to just find me by searching Drew Cherry, it's a unique name. But if you can't, it's Linkedin.com/im/drewbcherry. I would love to connect with anyone out there.
Callie Z:
And you'll notice, guys, that he does have his beard in all of his social media profiles so he does in fact look like a young professional, not a 15 year old, young professional, but a very cool 30 year old, young professional. So thanks again, Drew, for being here with us, and I hope our listeners do continue to reach out and have a conversation with you about your experience.
If you want to connect with me directly, feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. And don't forget about our SHRM young professionals page or on Twitter or Instagram @SHRMCallieZ. We post updates about the podcast as well as new episodes at sherm.org/HonestHR, and you can also find us on iTunes or Spotify or wherever else you listen to our podcasts. Thanks again for coming out, and we will see you next time for a new episode of Honest HR.