Take your strategic decisions to the next level by combining data and emotional intelligence. Guest host Jay Jones, lead of talent and employee experience at SHRM, picks the brain of Jevon Wooden, CEO of BrightMind Consulting Group, about how data alone is not enough to build long-term organizational resilience and the importance of humanity in HR. This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires May 1, 2026. Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz --- Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
Take your strategic decisions to the next level by combining data and emotional intelligence. Guest host Jay Jones, lead of talent and employee experience at SHRM, picks the brain of Jevon Wooden, CEO of BrightMind Consulting Group, about how data alone is not enough to build long-term organizational resilience and the importance of humanity in HR.
This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires May 1, 2026.
Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz
---
Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
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Jay Jones: Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for informed and aspiring HR professionals. I'm your host, Jay Jones, lead of Talent and Employee Experience at SHRM. Today we're exploring leveraging data and emotional intelligence for organizational resilience. Joining us today is Jevon Wooden, CEO of Bright Mind Consulting. Thanks for joining us today.
Jevon Wooden: Hey, thanks for having me, Jay. Of course. It's a pleasure to be here.
Jay Jones: Of course. So, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Jevon Wooden: Well, I'll try to give you the Cliff Notes version. Okay. Right. So I, got on this track of what you now know as Bright Mind Consulting Group during my last deployment in Afghanistan in 2017.
Jay Jones: Thank you for your service.
Jevon Wooden: Oh, thank you for the support, man. I had, hit a point in my life where I was like, you know, I wanted some stability, I wanted some certainty in my life. You know, deployments is very uncertain. It's very spontaneous. and I had, my body was breaking down mentally and emotionally, so I was like, what can I do?
and I found that I wanted to. Pour into people, which is hence why we're having this conversation on emotional intelligence and data. I'm a very analytical person by trade. I was doing cybersecurity, for the military and in the private sector. so I wanted to combine these two things to create customized training solutions to help people improve performance, of organizations and leaders.
Wow. So that's, what I do. Now, outside of that, I have a beautiful wife and baby girl. She's 16 months at the time of this recording. Okay. Causing you trouble, causing, me trouble and keeping me young because I have to chase her now. Yeah. So, so yeah. So based in Houston, Texas, man, and, I'm just honored to be here and share these insights.
Okay. Thank you for joining us. Yeah.
Jay Jones: Well, to start us off, can you tell us why it's so important to tap both data and emotion intelligence into in today's landscape? And can you share an example of when balancing the two made an impact?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah, absolutely. So Stephen Gaines, who's the Chief Insights and Data Officer at Pepsi, he once said that the data tells you the what and the when.
The empathy and emotional intelligence tells you the why, meaning that if we focus too much on the data, we'll understand what's happening. When it's happening, but we really won't have the true story of why it's happening. So in the organizational standpoint, we see that, you know, for example, employee engagement may drop, but we don't necessarily know what's causing that employee engagements to drop until we have those conversations with people understand what situations are causing them to feel a little uncertain to lower psychological safety, to get them in a space where they don't feel like they can show up as their best selves at work.
at Bright Mind Consulting Group. The way we, and use both is we may start an engagement with an assessment, right? That assessment allows us to collect the data of the organization, of the leaders, and then we can then create a customized strategy that helps the human element be at their best version of themselves.
Right? I love it. I love it.
Jay Jones: It feels like for organizations there's always, they have one or the other. They have one of the W's, but not the other one. The what? Maybe not the why, so yes, super important. Super important. Absolutely. well, when faced with challenging or high stakes decisions, how do you determine the balance between relying on analytics and understanding the human elements involved?
Perfect segue. And, and how does that impact the short term versus the long term decisions that you make?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah, typically what we found is that the data can really be great short term. So if you need to make a quick decision, you can kind of look at your dashboard and say, oh, here's what we need to do.
We notice that X thing is happening and, when, and maybe you have a, a longitudinal study going on. Maybe, you know, over the course of five years we have some seasonality, in hiring. For example, that we need to address. So what can we do then? But next thing we need to do, if we wanted to have a long-term impact on the people, we need to take them into account.
So if I know that, for example, if we stay with that hiring, process, how is it impacting us? Is it the term too long? Are we getting back to the candidates that weren't selected? Are we selecting the wrong candidates, et cetera. And you won't know that until you look at. That person's performance. You look at how long they've stayed at the organization, why they're staying at the organization, which is a cultural thing, and then how are they having that ability to go forward and move up and make a greater impact in their own way.
So that's really how I balance it too. When it comes to looking at short term and long term, it's kind of data starts with the short term. The long term is when we start really looking at the people. Long term is the people. Yes, for sure.
Jay Jones: I hear you there. I hear you there. When communicating sensitive or complex decisions to employees, how do you balance the transparency that data provides with the flexibility and empathy that, emotional intelligence and demands bring?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah, I, think that, you know, it, we said the transparency that the data provides, but really the transparency is coming from the communication. so we have to look at it from that standpoint. If we say that, There's something that needs to be communicated to these employees. The transparency happens when we are allowing them to understand the why behind our decision making.
So if we do have to do a layoff, for example, why, you know, why them, you know, how are we supporting them in that decision? What's next for them? What are the possibilities for them? you know, that's how we have to look at it. And when I'm talking about leveraging emotional intelligence in our decision making, it's understanding that every decision we make, everything we say has a consequence.
And really playing out those consequences before we take that action, should we have that, capacity to have some time to really think about and analyze. so data is not just from a technological standpoint, but data also comes from us as humans, our in institutional knowledge. Right. The understanding of what we're seeing, we have to leverage that data as well.
And oftentimes we don't trust that enough.
Jay Jones: Yeah. Yeah. And transparency really stuck out in what you said there and. It's essentially how are we taking that data and how are we gonna trust the staff with that information? How can we deploy that and where they understand and then they have the path forward.
Exactly. Exactly. I love it. Okay. Well, throughout your career have you had to cultivate your own emotional intelligence in any situations as far as advancing your career? And what particular challenges and turning points have you had in, in your growth?
Jevon Wooden: This is a good question, Jay. I'll tell you man, I, I've had so many inflection points in my life, that really help.
Me to understand the importance of emotional intelligence. Earlier on, I mentioned the military, and I can recall on one of my second,
Jay Jones: Do you mind asking what, what, branch you were at?
Jevon Wooden: Oh, not at all. Army.
Jay Jones: Gotcha. Gotcha. I'm a military brat. My, my father was in the military for about 20 years and a mom for five. So appreciate.
Jevon Wooden: Oh, okay. What branch? Both Army. Hey, cool. Cool. I love it. No, thank, well thank you. And the family for their service as well. yeah, it really teaches you some things if you're open to it, about connection and, with yourself and other people. so I think this is a good point for me to.
Let people understand that emotional intelligence has two components. The intrapersonal, right? The being able to connect with self and manage yourself and your emotions and process that. And then the interpersonal, when we're dealing with other people in groups, right? That empathy and that leadership and all those things tie into that.
And what I learned was that it starts with me. Right. It starts with me understanding where my blind spots are, what my biases may be, what I know, where I might have some gaps in knowledge. And being able to honestly say that I have those gaps in knowledge so I can then say, Hey, I may need help with this.
I need to ask my leadership team, you know, if the, if anyone is familiar with this X thing, and I learned that in the military, we have to be able to depend on the people on our left and our right. Absolutely. So we can better serve. Those people that are serving with us, right? Our soldiers that are under our charge, the people that we're looking to help, which may be a whole country, right?
So we have to take that into account and we can't just rely on data that says, Hey, here's what we're looking to do. It looks like this might work. We have to really think about it and go into these places and have conversations, talk to our soldiers. the military had a big issue with suicide being the number one cause of death, and it was because.
We looked at people as just data. We looked at people as pawns on the chess board. We knew we needed to move X person here. But then what happened after that, after the mission was done, that's where we were falling short. So I really learned the importance of that because I was part of that. What happened when it fell short came back home and I suffered, from depression.
So I had to go get, my help and that was the first time I really. Learn the power of being able to depend on others.
Jay Jones: I hear
Jevon Wooden: you. I hear you.
Jay Jones: And it's not the easiest thing to do. No, it's, not you depending on somebody else, especially with military background. Yes. that's, it's a tough thing to make.
So, yeah. So good on you For sure. Thank you. Can you share how emotional intelligence helped you connect with, effectively with your team, especially when it comes to presenting data and heavy insights, that could cause a little bit of confusion and feeling personal.
Jevon Wooden: Yeah. Actually, you gotta know your audience.
For sure. You know who you talking to. We have to know who you are talking to. So what's important for them? One, like understanding communication styles when you're conveying data, right? A lot of us, you know, talk about visual storytelling with data and all that stuff, but what about everyone else?
What about that auditory listener, that kinesthetic learner, you know, we have to be able to hit them where they are. so I take that into account whether I'm doing a presentation, a keynote, or I'm talking to my team about what I'm looking to accomplish in the next Q4 and beyond. Yeah. and that has really boated well for.
What has transpired in my company and how I'm able to be here on this podcast. Right? So because I'm able to communicate the important factors in a way that connects with everyone no matter what, their best mode of communication may be. Gotcha.
Jay Jones: Okay. Well, in those cases, how do you ensure that the data and emotional intelligence works collaboratively throughout your team, especially with multifunctional teams?
And are there any key practices or strategies that you can recommend for a strategic alignment?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah. First of all, if I say something, I wanna make sure that they understood what was being said. Okay. Right. So I'm gonna be like, any questions and some people we have to understand may not have the question right then, but then I want to say, Hey, if anything comes up for you, you know, feel free to reach out to me 'cause I wanna make sure that you got it got.
And, I'm going to check back in as the leader. I'm gonna check back in and say, Hey, I know I said I want an X thing done. Do you have everything you need? You have all the resources. Do we need to set up a quick call, to make sure that everything's aligned? Because I, I know that I need to take extreme ownership as the leader.
And there's a principle by Jocko willing, there. Extreme ownership is saying that the success of that person is really my job as the leader. and what I've learned to be. To be helpful in that. Some of the tools I've learned is that feedback always providing a feedback mechanism for them so they can feel safe.
So they can understand that they are the reason why we are successful and my job is to make sure that they are successful in serving in the best version of themselves. So that would be the main tool for me. Feedback.
Jay Jones: Yeah. And that check-in you do is so important. 'cause not everybody has it.
Right then and there. Right. You, myself. I gotta process it in and then I got something great for you later. Yes. So I hear you. So, yeah. And
Jevon Wooden: those people often get left out, the ones that need to process. So we gotta come on y'all for we gotta take that into account that everyone doesn't do it right then and there.
Absolutely.
Jay Jones: Absolutely. And that's where you get some of your best ideas. So Yeah. Yeah, we go. Absolutely. There we go. Well, resilience is crucial for navigating today's fast-paced environment, especially for the people we just talked about. how can HR leaders use emotional intelligence and data to cultivate a culture where employees feel empowered to adapt and thrive?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah, so if, we look at what's happening, in today's landscape, there is a lot of uncertainty here, right in, the business landscape. So we, as HR leaders, we have to take that into account to say, Hey, we are here with you. Here's some of the things that we're looking to do, but we want to hear from you.
Yeah. You know, we want to hear from you. We know that there's a lot going on. We know that you may not feel that psychological safety. You may be wondering what's up with your job if you're, you're on a layoff block or whatever it is. So give them space, right? Not just in a town hall meeting where you know, all the leadership are saying they're predetermined notes.
But where they can actually even anonymously just give that feedback like, Hey, I'm concerned with X thing. What are you doing about that? You have to have space for them to get those answers because those fester over a while. And even though someone may be performing that job, we don't know what's happening internally.
and if that continues to go forward, it starts to weigh on them. And we as HR people and just leaders in general have to understand that what's happening in the workplace is impacting them in their personal lives as well. So that's why I wanted to make sure we, talked about that extreme ownership principle.
It's on us to give them space to give their questions answered. Yeah. And it's on us to be transparent as much as possible to give them the answers that they're seeking. Yeah.
Jay Jones: And I like that you called out doing outside the. The town hall or the quarterly meeting. Yeah, because that's the spot where employees live the entire rest of their life at the company.
So that one hour meeting that doesn't make up for all the little moments in between that you, that confessor as you. Absolutely.
Jevon Wooden: And we gotta give managers, we gotta train the managers as well. Because managers are the ones that's dealing with them on a daily basis. They're there for a reason. Give them, empower them, give them training on what questions to ask.
Give them training on how to give and receive feedback. Give them training on having those difficult conversations so that they can go ahead and talk to them in their one-on-ones. Not just talking about performance, but hey, how are you really doing? And then once you get that, that can go up the change.
So we know what to do.
Jay Jones: You're speaking to my soul, talking a little l and d before this, before we got started, so I hear you there. Very nice. Alright, well, with HR increasingly becoming more data driven while still prioritizing customer care, employee care, how can HR leaders prepare their organizations to balance their dimensions effectively for the future?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah. I think it ties into what we've been talking about this whole time, right? you know, that feedback, giving 'em space, giving them clear lines of how they can best, you know, that, that scale of going up, if they perform X thing, how do they get promoted, right? What's their opportunities?
Is there opportunities for growth? are you going to invest in their development, like investment? It shows that they matter and it shows that you see them as a long-term solution. And then we also have to make sure we're communicating how their widget, how their one thing, their job ties into the greater hold of the organization.
I talk a lot about taking steal widget. Come on, steal widget. You steal that. Steal that you got widget. you can have it, man. But yeah, I see a lot of times where, you know, leaders in organizations are like, Hey, you got this thing, but they don't really, they never see the whole piece. And if you never see the whole piece, you start to feel like this piece is like, it's useless.
Yeah. I was there right in cybersecurity where I'm like, I'm protecting this data for what? Right. I'm protecting one the zeros. What's, yeah. What's the greater picture of this? Right. How am I truly making an impact? So show them that whole picture. Give them a chance to talk to the person that they passed their work off to and see how they operate.
I know companies that people have worked together for 10 years, but they've never really had a conversation. Like, give them a chance to do that and set it up. Right day in the life rotation, job rotation, whatever it is. Alright. Yeah. So they understand.
Jay Jones: Yeah. Creating those connection points, the value.
I don't know if you can speak to what the value that creates for companies, because that part is forgotten, you know? Yes. Especially let's talk about remote environments or hybrid environments. Ooh. You can be emailing somebody, like you said, for 10 years, not know. Anything how it works.
But you also say that thing in the back of your head, well, this department never works this way or this thing doesn't actually go through. So creating those connection points is super important.
Jevon Wooden: It's so important, man. It's like that is invaluable for the organization because again, that person starts to see why, what they do and why they matter, how they are important, right from the janitor up to that C-suite level.
And once you do that, they change their mindset to. Paradigm shift. I'm not just doing this, I'm doing it because they get that why tied to their job, and they're starting to make sure it aligns with their individual values. Okay? Right. So if I'm in this position, this matters because I'm making an impact in society.
In some way, this matters because I'm helping my colleagues achieve their greatness, right? This matters because it. Pushes me to be a better person, whatever it is. they can tie that in. And then when they also connect with that other person that they're working on now they know like, Hey, if I slack right, this person is depending on me.
Right. that's a part of the military, right? Going back to looking at your left and your right. So there's a number of ways that really helps the organization, and I guarantee you, if you give people the space to see that big picture and to talk to the people that they connect with, their work impacts those stakeholders, it will.
Change them the way that they go about doing things. Gotcha. Alright,
Jay Jones: well you said I can steal it, so don't get mad at me if you see saying bitch all over the place. Still better. Okay. Well, is there anything else you wanted to share about leveraging emotional intelligence and data that we haven't already talked about?
Jevon Wooden: Yeah, I would say that, you know, the two can coexist, But what we need to do is we need to be more strategic. Right now, data can tell you anything you, you want Right. Except the what that person is thinking. Right, accept what that person is feeling. So if you are an organization, if you are an HR leader and you're listening to this, I just challenge you to also use your greatest strength, which is your humanness.
Your humanity is what's going to allow you to paint a picture on your own based on what you know, both based on what you see, based on what you feel, based on the conversations you had. Once you have that. Then I ask you to make that choice. Don't do it just off of what you see on a pane of glass or on a TV screen, or a monitor.
Do it based on what you feel as well.
Jay Jones: Gotcha. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you Jeff. And that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Honest HR. A big thank you to Jevon for joining us today and sharing your deep insights with us.
Jevon Wooden: My pleasure.
Jay Jones: Honest HR is part of SHRM's daily flagship content series.
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