If you haven’t already heard, Ted Lasso star Jason Sudeikis is joining the Main Stage at SHRM Annual Conference & Expo 2024 in Chicago, June 23rd through 26th. In anticipation of the event, motivational speaker and Ted Lasso super fan Jeff Harry joins host Monique Akanbi for a discussion of the show and accompanying takeaways for creating positive workplace cultures on topics including leadership style, relationship building, and psychological safety at work.
If you haven’t already heard, Ted Lasso star Jason Sudeikis is joining the Main Stage at SHRM’s Annual Conference and Expo in Chicago, June 23rd through 26th. In anticipation of the event, motivational speaker and Ted Lasso super fan Jeff Harry joins host Monique Akanbi for a discussion of the show and accompanying takeaways for creating positive workplace cultures on topics including leadership style, relationship building, and psychological safety at work.
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Speaker 1: Join us in Chicago or virtually June 23rd through 26th at the SHRM Annual Conference and Expo 2024, where Jason Sudeikis will take over the main stage.
His opening General Session on Sunday, June 23, entitled “The Ted Lasso Effect: Empowering Leadership with Jason Sudeikis” is sure to inspire and motivate you to lead with purpose and authenticity.
Don’t miss out on incredible sessions like this one and opportunities to network with 25,000 of your HR peers at the world’s largest HR conference.
Monique Akanbi:
Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for HR professionals, people managers, and team leads, intent on growing our companies for the better.
Amber Clayton:
We bring you honest forward-thinking conversations and relatable stories from the workplace that challenge the way it's always been done. Because after all, you have to push back to move forward.
Wendy Fong:
Honest HR is a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. And by listening, you're helping create better workplaces and a better world.
I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton.
Monique Akanbi:
And I'm Monique Akanbi.
Now, let's get honest.
Amber Clayton:
Now let's get honest.
Wendy Fong:
Now let's get honest.
Monique Akanbi:
Welcome back to Honest HR. I'm your host, Monique Akanbi. If you haven't already heard, Jason Sudeikis, Ted Lasso star, will be joining the main stage at SHRM's annual conference and expo in Chicago, June 23rd through the 26.
And in anticipation of the event, I have the pleasure of being joined by a Ted Lasso mega fan, Jeff Harry.
Jeff is a motivational speaker who combines positive psychology and play to heal workplaces, help teams build psychological safety, and assist individuals in addressing their biggest challenges by embracing a play-oriented approach to work. He shows individuals and companies how to tap into their true selves to feel their happiest and most fulfilled, all by playing.
Now, when I said Jeff Harry is a Ted Lasso mega fan, how we know that's the case is that he's the host of the podcast, What Would Ted Lasso Do. Which, over the course of nearly 40 episodes, examined the show through the lens of positive psychology and leadership.
Jeff, welcome to Honest HR.
Jeff Harry:
Oh, I'm so excited for this conversation.
Monique Akanbi:
So am I. First and foremost, I'm excited about the SHRM annual conference in Chicago, but also I'm excited about our conversation, and to hopefully see you at the conference.
But first, Jeff, tell us about you and what you do.
Jeff Harry:
So basically, I make work suck less. And I use play and positive psychology to do it.
Monique Akanbi:
Awesome. So what led you to do a podcast about Ted Lasso?
Jeff Harry:
Part of the reason why I started this What Would Ted Lasso Do podcast, I started it with a colleague of mine, Dimple Dhabalia, who has also a background in positive psychology and worked in a lot of government.
And both of us were in a lot of difficult, challenging situations that were very similar to the show, where you're walking into toxic work environments as someone that's so optimistic. And what is going to happen? Are you going to lose your own faith? Are you going to lose who you are? Or are you going to be able to affect the culture and the environment in a positive way?
Well, both of us had seen clips of the show. And I knew about Jason because I just loved him from SNL. And they actually did a Ted Lasso pilot for NBC that was just more funny and not as heartfelt, so I was already into it.
But seeing one of the first episodes, it really just struck me, because the show's a comedy. So it's just supposed to be funny, that's it. But it showed one of the most accurate panic attacks on television, it showed how to show up as a healthy feminine as well as healthy masculine leader, it showed me how to stay curious and not be as judgmental. There were all these lessons that you would not actually expect from a comedy that were slipped in there, that were mind-blowing.
And especially at a time when it came out, we were right in the midst of the pandemic, and a lot of people were dealing with very toxic work situations, and watching Ted Lasso gave us hope. It gave us hope that there could be an alternative, and that we could be the Ted Lasso in our own organization that brings that hope.
Monique Akanbi:
So if you haven't seen Ted Lasso, and you just heard Jeff speak, you're probably running to your television now to watch it. But for those of us who haven't seen, or those who haven't seen Ted Lasso, give us the, what we like to call the TLDR, right? The two long don't read or the Reader's Digest version of the show and our conversation today.
Jeff Harry:
Yeah, sure. So Ted Lasso, there's a few different ways to describe it. So some Ted heads are going to be like, "I don't know if that's completely accurate," but I'll give you my best one.
So it's about a coach from the US who coaches NFL style football, so American style football. And then he's asked to come to England to coach a team in the premier soccer league or premier football league in England, like the best league in the world. And he's supposed to coach a team called AFC Richmond.
And he knows nothing about English football, he knows nothing about that. All he knows is how to connect with people. So he and his assistant coach, Coach Beard, come to this organization and they have to solve all of these issues. And a lot of them around how challenging and how pessimistic a lot of the team is or a lot of the culture of the organization.
And that's where you just see what is actually going to happen. Is Ted going to be affected? Is the organization's going to be affected? Is the team going to be affected? And how do they all coexist in a way to figure out not only how to win, but how to win in a way where they don't lose who they are?
Monique Akanbi:
So there's a lot of parallel between this scenario, or Ted Lasso, and maybe what a lot of individuals may face in the workplace today, right? You're going into maybe an organization or you're becoming a part of a team that you're not necessarily familiar with the way things operate, or you don't know the ins and outs. But the one thing you have is this optimistic personality, and that is going to carry you through, hopefully on the other side of winning, on the other side of success.
So tell us about Ted Lasso's leadership style and how we can effectively emulate that leadership style in our own workplaces.
Jeff Harry:
Sure. So what's interesting, and I think why this relates so much to HR, is Ted is truly HR, he's truly the human. Because when you think of HR, it's the only department that has human in the title. And all these other departments have other priorities, but our priority is humans.
And as soon as Ted first arrives, he's like, he's not even about... He says it, he even says it to the press when he's first there, he's like, "We're not about winning per se." He's like, "I'm about trying to help these players learn the most about themselves so they can do the best job possible, so they can do their most vibrant work."
He's about the connection. He's about building the psychological safety, so that not only the team but anyone that works for AFC Richmond feels comfortable enough to play, feels comfortable enough to show up more as who they are. Not in that cliche authentic self thing where you don't bring your whole self, but you bring parts that you are really excited about. And you don't code switch, you don't squash who you are, but actually what you do best is who you are.
And what he's able to do with each and every team member is he's able to help them feel seen, heard, appreciated, and valued. Feeling seen as, do you see me not as just like a cog in the machine, but do you see me as a human being? Appreciated like are you giving to me in my language of appreciation? Do I feel recognized? And then valued, are you compensating me? Are you recognizing me? And also feeling heard, are you giving me the platform where if I share something with you, it doesn't fall into a black hole never to be seen again? It actually is addressed.
And one of the first things that Ted does, which is tangible for all of us, is he passes around, because it's very corny at the beginning, he passes around a suggestion box. And most people don't fill it out, but a couple of people throw stuff in, and one of them is the shower heads.
The shower heads have never had good water pressure. And within a week he addresses the water pressure issue, all of a sudden now they have water pressure. It's something so small, but it shows right at the beginning that, "I'm willing to change the culture and I'm willing to listen to what you have to say to do that."
And this is just one step. So a tangible thing that HR listeners can do here is like, what is your water pressure issue? What is a small step you can take that you know would add a significant amount of value to so many workers' lives, so many employees' lives? Because that will send a message that, "Oh, they're actually listening to us and they're willing to take action on what we share."
Monique Akanbi:
So Ted sounds like he is the type of person that creates that individualization, he makes the team and also the staff feel seen. So as you were talking, what popped in my mind is he created an environment, again, that psychologically safe environment, where I felt I belonged. And then I can also show up as my best self in order to move the team or the organization forward. Whether that's a win or not, it's progress, so it's moving us forward.
What strategies does Ted use to build strong relationships with his players and the staff? You talked about the water pressure, listening to employees. What are some other strategies that Ted used to build strong relationships that HR leaders can use?
Jeff Harry:
Well, what's interesting that you say that is, and one I relate to significantly, play. He uses play. So if you watch the show he's constantly looking for what I refer to as attunement. And attunement is the first way in which you play as a baby.
And what it is is when your parent or guardian holds you up and they lock eyes with you, it's one of the first times ever where your brain waves match identically with your parent or guardian. And this level of attunement is when you feel seen, heard, appreciated, valued, loved, all non-verbally. And then you look for that level of attunement for the rest of your life in your relationships and your friendships at work.
And what Ted does in so many different gestures when he's joking around, some of the workshops or the things that he runs, everything is very play-related. And then he watches who interacts and who doesn't. And he's constantly looking for their way to play, not his way. He's not doing forced fun, he's actually looking for what is your way of expressing yourself?
So a great example is Rebecca, she is the owner of the team. And at first she's a GS [inaudible 00:13:16], she's a get stuff done person. She's very serious and constantly making decisive decisions, and doesn't have time for relationships. Well, he figures out a way in which to visit her every morning, and he provides her this shortbread, this amazing... And that's one of the things she loves.
So then after a few weeks she expects him to show up with the shortbread every single time, and then they have time to actually connect with one another. So he finds their way of play, their way of connection and speaks them in that language, in that language of appreciation.
And that is something that I feel HR staff can take from, it's just like, what is your staff's languages of appreciation? How are you communicating to them in that way? And how are you doing it in a playful, experimental way so that it feels not so serious and you're able to build that psychological safety?
Monique Akanbi:
Right. I'm a firm believer that anything that I do, I must enjoy it. I must have fun. Because we spend the majority of our awake hours where? At work, we're working. And so that is time that we can't get back.
And I love that he uses play to build those relationships, because it creates that environment where I enjoy what I'm doing, but also I have a sense of pride and purpose in my individual role and how that contributes to the organization.
And having HR leaders and business leaders be able to lead in that way then maximizes the amount of productivity or progress that is made throughout the organization. So I love that.
Jeff Harry:
Oh, can I add one more thing to that?
Monique Akanbi:
Sure, absolutely.
Jeff Harry:
He's also very experimental. So he does these gestures, like these, "Yes, and," gestures like improv, and sometimes he gets rejected.
And I talk a lot about how play is the opposite of perfection. Perfection is rooted in ego, shame constantly trying to be right. Play is rooted in curiosity, a sense of wonder, a sense of awe. And because he's in that play-oriented perspective, because he's staying curious and he's not judgmental, he's able to get rejected and he just rolls with it. He just tries something else out that's new.
And I think burnout comes from perfection. Burnout comes from us constantly trying to be somebody else. But being curious, which he is, gives freedom for people to show up in many different ways. And that, I think, also creates such psychological safety, that people feel comfortable enough to start to share with him.
Monique Akanbi:
Gosh, I think we can probably have an entire session, because you hit a button when you said burnout. Burnout is the result of perfection.
And if I think back to when I practiced HR, especially being in a leadership role, I took on this responsibility of I always had to get it right. And while I was curious, there was that added pressure of perfection, right? Because I had to get it right, because all eyes were not necessarily on me, but all eyes were on the success of whatever it was that I was doing.
And so that really just resonated with me, and I just wanted to share that with you as well. So thank you for sharing that.
What do you think Jason's keynote speech is going to be about at SHRM annual? And do you think he'll share with us a, what would Ted Lasso do?
Jeff Harry:
Oh, yeah. I'm sure he's going to share so many what would Ted Lasso do's.
But I believe what he will share... And who knows, who knows? I'm very excited myself to go, that's why I'm so excited to be going. But the fascinating part about Ted Lasso is that they talk about it as if Ted Lasso was the arc of Star Wars, where the first season was A New Hope, the second season was Empire Strikes Back, and the third season was Return of the Jedi. Those are the themes.
And the theme underneath all of that is, how do you bring humanity back to work? How do you see people as human beings? And how do you not lose your soul when you come to work, as you said, right? We're at work 2,000 to 2,500 hours a year. I read this recently, that your manager has more of an effect on your health than your doctor.
So because of this, why would we not only create a space where people could play, where people could actually show up more as themselves, but also create a place where people feel hope?
One thing that the AFC Richmond team provided over those three seasons is hope to the community. You see this for real happening with the show Welcome to Wrexham, where two actors basically invested all this money into this soccer team, and now all of a sudden the whole city has hope, right? People are flocking to the city. You're changing the energy.
Because people love football so much in Europe. I was just there last year in England, and the amount of just love for the game is so powerful, because not only are you a season ticket holder, your whole family has been for generations. So people have seen each other's families grow up in the stadium, so they see the team as part of their family.
So when he comes there and changes the culture, as well as it changes him, all of a sudden you see members of the community become more confident, take more risks, start doing more of the things they believe in. Because when a team wins, the community wins. The community believes what's possible, that wasn't possible before. And that's so joyful to watch.
I live in California, and recently, for example, San Mateo County reported that one of the biggest emergencies in their county is loneliness. And actually that's an epidemic happening all over America, it was reported by the Surgeon General last year. And this is part of the way in which you could address it.
And you can do the same thing in the workplace where you're like, how are we bringing more humanity to work? How are we bringing more humanity to our meetings, to how we make decisions, to how we hire, to how we treat our customers and clients?
All of those things I feel Jason will touch upon, because in many ways we're losing our humanity. And we're all suffering from it, and we don't know how to get out of it.
Monique Akanbi:
Wow. Jeff, a phrase that has come up a lot during our conversation is psychological safety. Where do you think that phrase has come from, or that topic or discussion has come from? And where do you see it going?
Jeff Harry:
So I think psychological safety became a trendy word when Gallup did a study and found out that approximately 85% of people are disengaged at work. And when they were like, "Oh my gosh, what does that mean?" And then they ran the numbers and they were like, "We're losing between 450 and 500, I think, billion dollars because of this level of disengagement."
They were like, "Well, what do staff need?" And they started to interview. Google was one of the first people to actually explore this, and they found that there wasn't enough psychological safety. Which what does that mean? That meant that people didn't feel seen, heard, appreciated, and valued.
And how do you measure that? They weren't willing to share at meetings, they weren't willing to talk openly with their bosses or their supervisors, they weren't willing to show up as themselves and share their best ideas. Because they didn't feel safe, they didn't feel they were going to be listened to or heard of at all.
So only when they started doing this at certain organizations, and then those organizations started becoming not only profitable, but I talk a lot about what Steven Johnson says, "The future's where people are having the most fun." The organizations that were having the most fun had the most psychological safety, so recruitment and retention weren't as hard for them, and then they became much more profitable.
All these other organizations were like, "Oh, should we be doing that as well?" And that's where a lot of DEI initiatives started showing up, of just like when you're able to create a place where people feel recognized and where they don't have to code switch or pretend to be someone else, that is when you're going to get the most vibrant work out of them.
Now, where is it going to be going? That's a really good question, because I see some leaders running straight to AI, hoping that AI will replace people so they don't have to deal with people, because they're not good with people. So some organizations are going to do that, they're going to run away from it, because psychological safety's too hard for them.
And then others are going to lean into it, right? They're going to incorporate things like the four-day work week, they're going to incorporate much more efforts into building a place of belonging and really focusing on really important DEI initiatives.
And I believe those organizations are going to be the ones that are going to thrive in the long run, because more people will want to stay. And more people will want to join something where they feel recognized and where it's fun, which is very similar to how Ted Lasso created AFC Richmond. It was the most enjoyable place to be, and that's why so many people wanted to be a part of it.
Monique Akanbi:
Well, as we begin to wrap up, it is very clear that your passion comes through in talking about this topic. But what's next for you, Jeff? Will I see you in Chicago.
Jeff Harry:
So, yeah, not only will you see me in Chicago, I'm doing a talk on Ted Lasso called What Ted Lasso Can Teach You About Psychological Safety. Where we just don't explore just what Ted does, because I think a lot of people focus on Ted, but there are so many other characters that people relate with.
Rebecca is very decisive, she's like the boss and is constantly making decisions in a specific way. Higgins is her right-hand person, he's very dependable and practical, but he's more about taking chaos and making order out of it. And then Keeley, she's the PR person. She's much more nurturing, and she gets a lot of buy-in. That's how she builds relationships, by focusing on compassion and humanity. So each character, even Nate, each character represents people, represents a part of you that you're like, "Oh, that's me."
And what's really powerful about Ted is Ted Lasso was one of the first ever leaders that I found on TV that embraced a healthy feminine leadership style. Play is very feminine, and it's very collaborative, it's very intuitive. That's how I show up, right? It's not as logical, it's not focused on cognitive and logical reasoning. And because of that, because he's so playful, even that impacted how I show up in how I am as a leader.
And I feel like we've skewed so far to one side of celebrating a certain type of leader, and to be able to celebrate leaders like Ted, and leaders like Rebecca, and leaders like Higgins, then all of a sudden we're able to create a workplace that it's built off of shared compassion, shared humanity, shared empathy.
Because that really is the crossroads that I feel we're at right now, are we going to go back to individualism, ego, and everyone's out for themselves? Or are we finally willing to create a workplace that people really want to be a part of because it's built off of humanity and compassion?
Monique Akanbi:
Awesome. So I will see you in Chicago and you are one of the speakers. Awesome. Where can our listeners find you online, Jeff?
Jeff Harry:
Absolutely. So you can find me at rediscoveryourplay.com, and you can simply click on the Let's Play button and we can figure out how to make work suck less at your org. Or I make a lot of ridiculous videos, including some Ted Lasso videos, at the handle @jeffharryplays, J-E-F-F H-A-R-R-Y P-L-A-Y-S.
And I can't emphasize this enough, you will so feel that it was worth it for you to come to SHRM national, just to see Jason, just to see how he breaks down Ted.
But in addition to that, it's the largest human resources conference in the world, there's going to be like 20,000 HR professionals there. And there's so many cool speakers that I know personally that are going to be speaking there. And it's in Chicago, one of my favorite cities with some of the best food.
So definitely make it a priority to come out to it. It is a unforgettable event, and it will be even more so with Jason Sudeikis there and Ted Lasso.
Monique Akanbi:
Awesome. Thanks, Jeff.
That's going to do it for this episode of Honest HR. Thanks so much, Jeff, for joining me to discuss HR business and leadership lessons from Ted Lasso.
To get your tickets to SHRM '24, and see Jason Sudeikis live on the SHRM main stage, head over to annual.shrm.org. If you haven't already, subscribe and follow the Honest HR podcast, however you listen to your podcast.
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Speaker 1:
AI is here. And as an HR pro, you're responsible for managing employee concerns around this new technology while protecting your organization's business needs. How do you balance the two?
Join thousands of your peers in Chicago, June 23rd through 26th, for SHRM '24, the world's largest HR conference. With over 375 sessions across 12 dynamic content tracks, you'll leave equipped with the tools you need to upskill employees and embrace AI responsibly while enhancing your workplace culture.
Register today or risk falling behind the curve. Learn more at SHRM.org/SHRM24.