<p><b>Listen to this episode for out of the box thinking about financial wellness. <br /><br /></b>According to data from the Federal Reserves, nearly 40% of Americans would struggle to cover a $400 emergency expense. If this is affecting 40% of Americans—it’s affecting your employees and your bottom line! When employees are losing sleep over unexpected expenses, their work is affected. </p><p>Customizing any program to meet every individual need can be difficult. What is your organization doing to help employees navigate financial wellness? </p><p>Think outside the box. Explore unique short-term options alongside longer-term programs. Ensure your employees know about the programs you do provide, and how to access them if they need to. Just because you have a program doesn’t mean your employees know about them! And what they don’t know won’t help.</p><p><b>Key episode takeaway:</b> Push past the administrative hurdles and burdens that may come with providing alternative financial wellness programs—it’s benefits like these that can make the difference between a happy engaged employee and one that is looking to leave. <br /><br />---<br /><b>EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING</b><br />Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! All you have to do is listen to a full mini-series to earn PDCs! All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.<br /><br />The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.<br />---<br /><b>This episode is Part 2 of a two-part series. </b>When you listen to both parts of the series, you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation.</p>
Listen to this episode for out of the box thinking about financial wellness.
According to data from the Federal Reserves, nearly 40% of Americans would struggle to cover a $400 emergency expense. If this is affecting 40% of Americans—it’s affecting your employees and your bottom line! When employees are losing sleep over unexpected expenses, their work is affected.
Customizing any program to meet every individual need can be difficult. What is your organization doing to help employees navigate financial wellness?
Think outside the box. Explore unique short-term options alongside longer-term programs. Ensure your employees know about the programs you do provide, and how to access them if they need to. Just because you have a program doesn’t mean your employees know about them! And what they don’t know won’t help.
Key episode takeaway: Push past the administrative hurdles and burdens that may come with providing alternative financial wellness programs—it’s benefits like these that can make the difference between a happy engaged employee and one that is looking to leave.
---
EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING
Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! All you have to do is listen to a full mini-series to earn PDCs! All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.
The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.
---
This episode is Part 2 of a two-part series. When you listen to both parts of the series, you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation.
Callie Zipple:
Hey, everybody. It's Callie Zipple, your host of Honest HR, back for another episode with you all. This is going to be part two of mini series three. And as a reminder for those maybe who are here for the first time or for those coming back, we do run mini series for this season. And that is particularly so we can offer PDCs or professional development credit as a result. So mini series three is specific to total rewards. This is part two.
So you do have to listen to part one before you can use the PDC code that will be provided to you at the end of this episode. So welcome back to those who have listened before. Welcome for the first time for those who are here for the first time. I'm excited to be with my guest today talking total rewards, and specifically financial wellness. So Mary, welcome to the podcast. Tell us a little bit about yourself and say and spell your last name, if you don't mind, because I think I mess that up every single time I try. And tell us about your role, where you're at, why you're in HR, all of the things, Mary.
Mary Feuerbach:
Sure. Thank you so much, Callie, for having me. I was super excited two weeks ago, when you contacted me to do this presentation. My main role is benefits, but before that, just wanted to talk a little bit about myself. So my first name is Mary. My last name is Feuerbach. So I used to coach JV high school softball, for a number of years. So the way that I would get the team, in order to remember me as Coach Feurbach is I would say "fear me, fear the bach." So Feurbach is how you say it.
Callie Zipple:
I love it. Note to self.
Mary Feuerbach:
And yes, note to self, it's German. And there are a couple of vowels in there that kind of throw people for a loop. So definitely excited to be here today. So my role, I've listened to a couple of your podcasts in the past. Sorry, Callie, I haven't listened to all of them. I apologize.
Callie Zipple:
Oh, you will. Don't worry.
Mary Feuerbach:
I will. And so, for those that I have really listened to, it was interesting to me as people spoke about themselves, because usually, they will talk about kind of that non-traditional route they took to get into human resources. And I find that more to be the majority when I talk to people. And kind of my story I'm finding is more of the minority and the fact that I knew in high school, actually, that I wanted to go into human resources. So I had actually, I went to Western Michigan University and got my undergrad, as well as grad in human resources. So that has always been a path that I have wanted to take. And I'm excited to say that pretty much for the last 15, going on 16 years, I've been in human resources. My current role right now is I actually work for a Native American tribe in rural upper Michigan.
And we are a very diverse employer. So I work actually on the tribal government side and I oversee I am the benefits administrator. So I actually oversee the benefits, both for the tribal government, as well as our enterprises, to include the casino. So we are pretty diverse in the types of employees that we actually employ. So on our tribal government side, we actually operate a K through 12 school with actually a early childhood program. We operate a health department. We have a police department, a water department. So we have a lot of professional employees working on our government side. And then, we operate a casino, a gas station, two different golf courses. So we are rather large. We have approximately 1100 employees.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, very cool. And I'm a little bit jealous that you found HR when you did and had that direction in your life. Because I think the majority of our listeners, including myself, lucked into the profession. So I give you props for knowing so early that that was the path that you wanted to take.
Mary Feuerbach:
I've always been interested, specifically in the benefit path. And kind of I've done the general HR practitioner and I have found really my niche in the benefit world. And one of the reasons, and this is more just a personal story that I'd like to share, is actually in college. I was at school and I had two insurances. I had insurance under my mom and insurance under my dad. And I had a very big billing issue, dealing just with some personal medical claims that I had to try and navigate in college, and not knowing a whole lot at the time about health insurance. And just seeing the nuances of billing, coordinating care, coordinating benefits, when you have more than one insurance, got really complicated really quick. So it was kind of this big headache for me. And I found that I really actually liked helping people solve those problems. And I got pretty good with being able to kind of navigate myself and thought, "if I can do this for myself, I can probably help others."
Callie Zipple:
And that, the reality of that, for our employees is so real. Everybody who has to use their insurance or has some medical claims that they have to get through their organization's insurance sometimes run into issues. So that is something that I definitely respect and appreciate. And I know other HR professionals listening to this will identify with. So as I mentioned, this mini series that we're in now is related to total rewards. But this episode specifically, I wanted to talk about financial wellness. And the reality of this topic is something that I don't think we think about often, but there's statistics out there all over the place that 40% of Americans, 40%, which is a pretty big chunk, aren't able to cover something as menial as a $400 emergency expense. And so, if that's affecting 40% of Americans, it's affecting 40% of your workplace.
And so, imagine the stress of not being able to pay that bill and how that might affect somebody's work performance or ability to even come to work on a day to day basis. So if they're losing sleep over that surprise expense, you know that their work is reflecting that. And so, for me, that comes back to this idea of financial wellness. And I know that HR professionals and vendors and benefits providers are really considering this as a hot topic right now, in 2019 and beyond. So if we're thinking about or considering a way to set us apart from our competitors, financial wellness is certainly something we should consider, from an HR perspective. And so, Mary, when we were talking about this, to your point, just a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about some of the things that your employer, the Native American tribe, does to help your employees navigate this financial wellness conversation. So give us an overview of what you're doing right now for your employees to better understand the idea of financial wellness in their lives and in their work.
Mary Feuerbach:
Sure. We actually have a couple different, both short kind of term solutions for employees, as well as some more longer term ones. More those short term ones, and as you were talking earlier, as you know, you're talking about 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense. That is definitely true here for our organization. So how, as an employer, can we help relieve kind of that stress of not being able to go paycheck to paycheck or sometimes even week to week? And so, there's a couple strategies that we actually have here to kind of help relieve some of that.
One of the first things, it's not a traditional financial wellness tool when you think of, but it's a really important tool for us. And that starts with our employee assistance program or our EAP. And one unique thing that we do here is we contract directly with an EAP provider who actually comes on site and meets with our employees on a weekly basis, comes once a week, that we actually have space for. That EAP provider is able to kind of provide that service and that kind of that first line of being able to talk to an employee about some of the different issues that happen, including money problems.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. And I don't think that, well, first of all, I don't think our employees, regardless of where they're at, understand this offering of EAP. Most employers, and I'm guilty of this, don't do a super great job of orienting employees to what the EAP program looks like. And I wouldn't even have thought to tap into the EAP from a financial wellness perspective. So I give you some props in identifying that as an area for your employees and then, tapping into your EAP to offer those sorts of conversations and assistance. But I think one of the other things you do, and maybe this is in concert with your EAP provider, but is tapping into your 401k provider or offering some sort of training as it relates to your 401k. Am I right?
Mary Feuerbach:
It is. And that will be, besides what we have found. And there, I've looked at a number of programs. And the one thing that we try and do, it's very difficult to customize any type of program to meet every individual need. But the biggest thing that we found is if we can have one-on-one type of meetings with employees. So both having that face to face with our EAP, as well as having that face to face with a 401k, our financial advisor. And so, with that, we have our 401k provider who comes on site to meet with every new hire, to be able to go through the 401k, the importance of that. We'll sit down and have a 401k plan. And then, in addition, that 401k provider comes on site once a month. That will go to our different buildings and our different enterprises actually meet with employees. And he will just schedule that to be able to come on site, to have that individualized approach as best as we can.
Callie Zipple:
And you told me that this was required of all of your employees, is that right?
Mary Feuerbach:
It is mandatory. If they don't go, they could be subject to discipline. We generally don't like to go that route and I will go out of my way to, whether it be a phone call, a follow up email, an additional letter, to really have all of these additional makeup times that we are able to get that employee to show them the importance of it. So not look like, "Hey, we're offering you a benefit that you don't think is valuable." We want to be able to come to show them that value.
Callie Zipple:
And I think the reality is that people really don't use that 401k, maybe because they can't, maybe because they can't put money aside from their paychecks, or they don't understand what sort of threshold they're able to use as far as budgeting is concerned. So offering that one on one consultation with the 401k provider, I think, is a great idea to allow for employees to really understand that benefit a little bit more.
Mary Feuerbach:
Yes. And once the biggest thing is we need our employees to understand is just to get them to put that first foot forward and really be able to show them a workable plan, a workable budget, how really maybe one or even 3% of your paycheck in the end isn't a lot, compared to when you're looking at compounding of interest and looking at 20 or 30 years. Because those are years you just can't get back. So if you start when you're so much younger in your twenties, compared to, say, in your forties, that is 20 years that you've lost in compounding for interest that you just can't make up in time.
Callie Zipple:
So one of the other things you had mentioned to me, as it relates to your 401k, is this idea of loans against the 401k. And I think the use of this benefit is a little bit unique to your employee base. So help me understand sort of how the 401k loan is used by your employee base and what you're doing to help them understand some of the repercussions, as it relates to that program.
Mary Feuerbach:
Sure. We've offered a 401k loan product. It's actually something in the beginning, I was not for, mainly because it's a lot of administration. As well as my perception at the time was I didn't want employees to think of it as just an additional savings account. I wanted them to view it as a retirement tool and in a vehicle for retirement to actually say, "Hey, when I get old enough, I can retire and I can afford to retire." But it is a product that we have offered now, for a number of years, I believe national averages around maybe 14 to 20% for loans as average utilization. Ours is pretty much double. Ours is around 28% average utilization of 401k loans for those that are eligible for it. We are rather unique in that we are double, but we have a very just diverse workforce, in terms of a lot of entry level employees who really are close to that minimum wage or a little bit above.
So that, to them, is more of a savings tool for them. And so, my view has really kind of changed over time. And the fact, if that is a way that they are able to save, and it's just a little more complicated than how you get the money, then they are able to pay for some of those expenses. So now, it's more of an additional benefit, so to speak, that we might be able to offer to subsects of employees to be able to help them through those pinches of having to replace a roof that they didn't plan for. Or a new water heater, as an example. Those are big expenses to an employee. As you talked about that $400 emergency expense, that this is a way to help them be able to pay that without having that stress of not being able to do that.
Callie Zipple:
And I think, my brother's an accountant or he's in accounting. I don't know if his title is truly accountant, but he's in accounting. And when I was considering a 401k loan at one point for an expense that I was realizing, he steered me away from it, because of some of the repercussions, as it results to taking that money out of the 401k and how it's really hard to get back up to the level, even though a lot of 401k loans have repayment plans and programs that you have to sign up for. So I think just really understanding what a 401k loan requires or what the thresholds are or what you can or can't afford by being able to talk to a 401k provider. I think that is just such an opportunity to utilize as an employee that is already putting money towards it.
Mary Feuerbach:
Yes. And so, we actually have a couple different just kind of financial loans, kind of the consequences that we are able to give an employee as they're looking to kind of consider if a 401k loan is right for them, because there could be monthly expenses. There's the interest of this charge. There's sometimes a loan origination fee, and as well as that money is not in your account, besides what you're paying an interest. Actually making more money in the market, depending on what they were invested in. So that money could be up to, say, five years, not actually in the 401k growing the way your other funds are. So there is a lot of education that needs to happen when you offer a 401k loan. So usually how our loans work here is I am really that first line of contacting me in order to do that.
And the one thing that we do have here is we actually have a loan committee, before a loan is approved. We review all of the loans to kind of make sure they are meeting the criteria. As well, it gives that employee the additional time to think about "is a loan right for me?" Sometimes in the end, it is right, because we do have employees that maybe because they do have a lot of other debt between mortgage student loans, that they are not able to go to a bank then and borrow additional money. Or if they do, it is at a much higher percentage than what our 401k offers.
Callie Zipple:
And I think just having the ability to know all of those things is key, especially as you said, a lot of your employees are sort of entry level or a little bit more at the low end of the wage pool, just knowing what all of that means from a 401k loan perspective. I didn't even know 401k loan was allowed or a thing, until I was considering this issue that I was trying to tackle as a young professional. So just knowing that it's there and knowing that it's an opportunity or possibility I think is key, especially if we want to allow for some of that stress to be alleviated on our plan and our employees.
Mary Feuerbach:
Yeah. And besides our 401k loans, kind of some of the other unique options that we offer, especially because we don't want employees tapping into their 401k, that there are a couple different options and those are those short term ones I kind of talked about in the beginning, that I haven't touched on. Is we offer kind of two unique things is that we actually offer actually payroll advances for employees. And even with our payroll advance, one of the things we did on our enterprise side is we switched from a biweekly payroll to an actual weekly payroll to be able to help employees by giving them their steady income weekly, instead of doing it biweekly or bimonthly.
And then, in addition to that payroll advance, we also have a fund and we've actually had it for a number of years. And it's called them employee emergency assistance fund. And that is where employees actually donate to this fund from their paychecks, that other employees can request in case of an emergency. So those are more of those short term things that we can try and help employees, instead of looking to take some of those longer term things out, like a 401k loan.
Callie Zipple:
And I love both of those mentions. And those are going to be actually the two things that we dive into a little bit more here towards the end of this episode, because the idea of a payroll advance and the idea of this emergency relief fund or whatever you called this fund is foreign to me. These are two programs that I've never been involved in or never even considered offering to employees. And I think, if we're really trying to tap into this idea of financial wellness of our employee base, these are two possible places to start. So tell us a little bit more about this payroll advance, what this program is, as far as structure and how often it's utilized and really what the feedback is that you get from your employees who participate in this payroll advance program.
Mary Feuerbach:
Sure. Our payroll advance system, you can really only request it in a couple different circumstances and you have to be able to kind of prove those circumstances, but when they do occur, it is a very big benefit for employees to be able to kind of access that pay a little bit early. And we allow it really just in a couple different scenarios. And really the first one is, unfortunately, we have a lot of our employee base does not actually have a, say, a checking or a savings account. So we have a lot of employees who actually still get a paper check. And so, some of that is problematic when we have employees who are away on travel or they're on a vacation or they have a medical emergency and they are not able to physically access and pick up their paycheck.
So we will always approve a payroll advance if you are going to be gone on payroll day, because we do have a number of our employees who, unfortunately, for various reasons, are not able to establish a bank account. And that could be, we have employees who are in temporary housing, they move a lot. So it's difficult for them to be able to establish an actual bank. So we offer the ability for employees to get a payroll advance on the dollars that they've already earned, if they're gone on an approved vacation or business travel.
Callie Zipple:
So question, before you jump into the second circumstances, it relates to the advance and maybe you were going to get here. So maybe I'm leading you with this question, but do you require any sort of tenure, in order to participate in this program? Or have you run into any issues where people are requesting payroll advances and then leave? Or does that not really happen with this program?
Mary Feuerbach:
So just for that circumstance, employees can only request money that they've already earned.
Callie Zipple:
Okay. Got it.
Mary Feuerbach:
So so essentially, depending on we are a weekly payroll, so it does get a little complicated. And so, we work really well with payroll on these things, but it will be based just on reported hours or because we do have a casino, based on tips that they've earned. And so, all of our tips are turned in and paid on a paycheck. So because of that, we are able to capture those dollars and know those when they come to ask for that advance.
Callie Zipple:
Got it. Okay. So then, second circumstance?
Mary Feuerbach:
So our second circumstance has to do when really they have this sudden unexpected emergency and it really has to be kind of this serious in nature. And it could be they had received an unexpected bill. And so, because of that, it's something they didn't prepare for, didn't plan for, and don't have the money for. But it needs to be taken care of right away. So if the family situation has to do with, if, say, for some reason, they didn't plan, because in Michigan, we have some pretty significant weather swings in our winter, that maybe they didn't plan for a heat bill and their heat is going to actually be shut off. This is a way for them to be able to access and pay for that, if the family jeopardy of their family life is going to be impacted.
Callie Zipple:
So how often is this utilized by your employees? And what's the feedback when they do have the opportunity to tap into this benefit?
Mary Feuerbach:
So on our enterprise side, it is not widely used. Probably less than 10% of our employee base probably utilizes a payroll advance, mainly because that will put them behind, say, for the following week. So it's a budget thing. So it's not widely utilized on our enterprise side actually, but for those who utilize it, it is an important benefit. And the feedback is very positive. I think it would be difficult for us to remove that as a benefit. There are some administrative hurdles and administrative burden by doing some of these things. But if that helps to be able to retain some of our employees, that is a positive for us.
Callie Zipple:
So then, this next benefit that you just mentioned that I want to revisit is this emergency relief fund. And so, similarly to your payroll advance, there's probably some administrative burden and some difficulty around this benefit as well. But I think this is one of the coolest things you offer, as it relates to financial wellness. So tell us a little bit more about this fund and how it's utilized and what that program really looks like.
Mary Feuerbach:
Sure. And this is a very fun benefit to me. I have actually never heard of it before coming here as well. And so, it's called our employee emergency assistance fund, our EEAF. And with this fund, we have employees through their paycheck. So they're usually asked at orientation when they come through, if they want to contribute to this fund, most employees contribute a dollar, maybe $2, from their paycheck a week to this fund, that each week then it's put in and then we actually have a committee who oversees this fund. And so, what happens is we have a designated list of those situations that come up when an employee might need to ask for this, ask for assistance from this fund. And so, I think they've had this fund, I don't know how many years. It's been here for a long time and it's really only for emergencies. And an employee, there's an application they go through.
And in this application, they're just going to ask for what the scenario was. And the criteria is it either can be for themselves or essentially an immediate family member. And the immediate family member designation is similar to what is offered, say, under the family medical leave act. We use the same definition to be able to describe what an immediate family member is. And so, with that is there's certain criteria. And the first one is that they're in a medical emergency. So did the employee or a immediate family member, say, have a heart attack or have surgery or diagnosed with cancer? And they're able to access this fund if they need help, as one example, paying for their insurance premiums, while they're off of work. Another one could be that they actually have to travel, being in rural Northern Michigan, access to some specialty care related to medical comes out of travel cost.
So you might have to travel three or six hours to be able to get some specialty medical care. And so, we might be able to help employees offset some of those travel costs, whether it be through driving, with helping with gas assistance, or food assistance, or hotel assistance. And we have employees that will ask for money for they might actually have a loved one who have passed away. And so, be able to kind of help with some of those unexpected costs, when you have a bunch of family who comes in and that you need to help prepare or provide food for. And you have to start essentially spending money before some other benefits might kick in. So this is a way that we are able to help on a very short term basis.
Callie Zipple:
And to your point, I had never heard of a benefit like this. And when you told me about it, I was... And it's funny, because you told me about it as a side thought. And I was like, "Yo, this should be something that we talk about it at length on this episode." Because it's such a interesting take on this idea of financial wellness. And so, I do have a question about the program though, is there any sort of payback that these employees have to do for the funds that they receive by participating in this?
Mary Feuerbach:
So they don't. They're not required to pay it back, but what happens is, so they are required then to provide supporting documentation after the event has happened, whether that be hotel receipts or gas receipts. And they're able to provide those receipts to us, if they don't turn those in, unfortunately, they are not able to ask from the fund again. And then, secondly, we ask all new hires when they come through orientation to be able to put in. And then, so what happens is, anybody the first time can ask for a donation from the fund. And then, we ask them, at that time, to be able to make a donation and start contributing from their paycheck. Again, it only can be a dollar or $2. It doesn't have to be an equal amount to pay back what was given to them. And so, what happens, if they don't do it at that time, unfortunately, because the pot can be limited and we don't want to have the same people asking multiple times without giving back, that they are not able to ask for additional funds, if they don't donate again.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. Again, this benefit is so cool. And it's such a great spin on this idea of financial wellness for our employees, that if there's HR practitioners out there looking for an out of the box or outside the norm benefit, this might be a really cool thing for you to consider an offer to your employees. So thank you so much for mentioning it to me in passing the last time we were talking about this and then wanting to talk about it a little bit more today on the episode. So is there any other comments or things that you guys are doing within your space that you want to share, as it relates to financial wellness?
Mary Feuerbach:
We do a number of really those kind of typical total wellness things where we have done education, if there's anything I really want individuals to know. So I have been in my current position just for three years, but I've been associated with the community and the tribe for about 10 years. And so, what I have found, and then, my working in 15 years, what they have found the most, and even though it takes the most work to happen, is that it needs to be individualized. And there is so much time and emotional energy that goes into that. But in the end, you get a much greater payoff, because of that. And so, that would be the kind of the one thing. I've researched different programs in bringing other educational material and having classes on site.
But what I find is everybody is so unique in what their individual needs are for where they're at in their life, at that current moment, that it's so hard to have this prepackaged off the shelf product. And so, any way that you can try and make somebody feel included in your culture and that you care about them, you'll get greater rewards on the back end. It might not be something that shows up on the balance sheet that you can put on the ledger to show to your CFO. But if you can have that personal connection, and that's why I kind of go back to why I chose HR and I chose benefits is because you get to have those one-on-one conversations that are meaningful.
And as I've always said, in all of my positions that I've ever had, that I'm trying to make somebody else's job easier. So if I can help that person who is a blackjack dealer, or who is that school teacher, or an individual who is diagnosed with cancer, they need to fight cancer. I can fight and help them navigate the insurance world. So it's really having that individualized care and treatment of that employee to say, "Hey, we're here to help you. You are not an administrative burden." To be able to show that value so they can go be more successful in their position.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, I agree. And when I was in the total reward space and working on benefits and compensation in that role, I found that sometimes you don't know what people need until you try something or you don't know until you ask. So to your point, asking employees or having those one-on-one conversations or just administering a survey and saying, "Hey, how can we help you be more conscious of your finances or help you relieve some stress on your life?" Really great place to start, as it relates to this whole conversation of financial wellness. So Mary, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast. Is there anything else you want to share before we do the outro?
Mary Feuerbach:
We would always love to be able to help employees and financial wellness goals by giving them more money. And unfortunately, we can't. We're just limited by budget. So if there are other individual unique needs that fit within your culture, try it out. We've tried other things they haven't worked. And so, it's just what works within your company or your organization.
Callie Zipple:
Yep. Love it. Well, if there are any listeners that want to reach out or connect with you to talk a little bit more about any of your programs, how can they reach out?
Mary Feuerbach:
Two different ways. I am on LinkedIn, so they can find me in LinkedIn by just my name, Mary Feuerbach. Again, F as in Frank, E U E R, B as in boy, A C H. So I am on LinkedIn. Otherwise, feel free to email me. My email address is M as in Mary and my full last name again, F as in Frank, E U E R B a C H at hannahville, H A N N A H V I L L E.org.
Callie Zipple:
Cool. And again, Callie Zipple, your host of the podcast. I can be reached on LinkedIn or at Twitter and Instagram, at shrmcalliez. As always, if you want to interact with the podcast on a little bit more of a direct basis, you can visit our shrm.org/honesthr website. There are opportunities out there for you to suggest guests or topics on upcoming mini series or episodes. So feel free to interact with us there as well. Thank you again, everybody, for being listeners of the podcast, Mary, for coming out on this episode. And we will see you next time on another episode of Honest HR.
This episode is part two of mini series three, and is the final episode in the mini series. If you haven't already done so, please go back and listen to part one of this mini series featuring Crystal Frey. Once you've listened to all parts of this mini series, you can enter the SHRM professional development or PDC code into your SHRM re-certification profile. The code you'll need is 21-N6D4A. That's 21-N as in November, 6, D as in Delta, 4, A as in Alpha. Thanks as always for being SHRM certified, and of course, for listening to our Honest HR podcast.