<p><b>This week we are replaying for you our Honest HR season 2 opener.</b> On this episode, Callie and guest Sam Arpino, previously the Talent & Culture Manager of DoSomething.org and currently the Director of People Operations at the Trevor Project, discuss what it means to "develop an authentic professional version of yourself". One that you're proud of while understanding there are parts of your personality that may not set you up for success right when you're starting out. <br /><br />/////<br /><b>EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING</b><br />Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.<br /><br />/////<br /><b>This episode is part 1 of a two-part series </b>on leadership and navigation, and communication. The second part of this series is "<a href="http://www.buzzsprout.com/173315/1002014-authenticity-exclamation-marks-in-email-egocentrism-feat-brittany-hanson-mba">Authenticity: Exclamation Marks in Email & Egocentrism feat. Brittany Hanson, MBA"</a><br /><br />/////<br /><b>When you listen to both parts of the series, you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation. </b>All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.</p>
This week we are replaying for you our Honest HR season 2 opener. On this episode, Callie and guest Sam Arpino, previously the Talent & Culture Manager of DoSomething.org and currently the Director of People Operations at the Trevor Project, discuss what it means to "develop an authentic professional version of yourself". One that you're proud of while understanding there are parts of your personality that may not set you up for success right when you're starting out.
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EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING
Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.
/////
This episode is part 1 of a two-part series on leadership and navigation, and communication. The second part of this series is "Authenticity: Exclamation Marks in Email & Egocentrism feat. Brittany Hanson, MBA"
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When you listen to both parts of the series, you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation. All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.
Speaker 1:
Hey, Honest HR listeners. This week, we are replaying for you our Honest HR season two opener. It's part one of our first two-part mini-series on leadership, navigation, and communication, called Entry Level to Next Level: Bouncing Back From Feedback and Failure and Knowing Your Worth. On this episode, Callie and guest Sam Arpino, previously the talent and culture manager of DoSomething.org and currently the director of people operations at The Trevor Project, discuss what it means to develop an authentic professional version of yourself, one that you're proud of while understanding there are parts of your personality that may not set you up for success right when you're starting out. We hope you enjoy this series re-broadcast. And if you're new here, details about how you can earn SHRM re-certification PDCs for this mini-series can be heard by listening to the episodes and reviewing the show notes. Enjoy.
Callie Zipple:
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Honest HR. We are hitting the ground running here today with season two of our podcast. And I'm excited to let you guys know that today's topic was actually submitted by a listener, and we have a great guest to give us her insight into the topic and really get you guys what you're looking for and what you want out of our podcast. But you're listening, again, to Honest HR. I'm Callie Zipple, your host. I work for SHRM as a field service director. And if you're curious about that role or about SHRM in general, feel free to reach out. I'm not going to bore our listeners here.
But happy to be here, happy to have this platform, and ready to discuss today's topic with Sam. So Sam comes to us with great experience, and she's going to be talking about from entry level to next level, so helping us work through what it looks like to get from that entry level role to a sort of next level, more strategic, more managerial level experience or HR experience role, what have you. So, Sam, welcome. I'm happy you're here. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what about this topic gets you most excited.
Sam Arpino:
Yeah. Callie, I'm so excited to be talking about this. As you mentioned, my name is Sam Arpino. I use she, her pronouns, and I am the talent and culture manager at DoSomething.org, the largest organization for young people and social change in the world. I'm super excited about this topic. I actually was hired at DoSomething in a different capacity as an entry level employee almost four years ago. And after some time in that position, I realized that I wanted to switch into a different kind of function, and I kind of raised my hand and was able to move into people operations.
And so now I currently oversee full cycle recruitment, full cycle people ops here at DoSomething. I've built out our internship program. I've had the chance to build out a strategy on the hiring side that we had never had in place before. And a lot of that came from the entry level kind of things that I put in place with my manager at the time to set me up for success and to have her trust me to take on these larger opportunities. So I'm really excited to talk about how I did that and what I think other people can do to really position themselves at the entry level to get those opportunities internally at their companies.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah, that's great. And it's funny, because you never really look back at your career and think, "Yeah, I did set myself up for success," right?
Sam Arpino:
For sure.
Callie Zipple:
You just sort of go day by day and hope that you're successful. But I like that we can sort of look back and say, "You know what? I'm glad I had that conversation when I did, because now here I am."
Sam Arpino:
Absolutely.
Callie Zipple:
So I appreciate you wanting to have this conversation, and again, I appreciate the listener who submitted and asked for this topic to be covered. So I'm going to jump right into it. And I know that this wasn't necessarily a topic that you came to us with, but I'm excited that you're willing and open to discuss it. So we've either all been in a spot or are working through one now where we feel like we're ready for that next step, but we're not really sure either what it looks like or how to get there.
So I think just knowing, number one, that we're not alone in that feeling is helpful, but I'm excited to have this platform and have this discussion so that other people can both learn from what you did, but then also think of their own experiences and get ready for that next level opportunity. So one of the things that I think we often do is forget how important and necessary it is for us to get that entry level experience, so share with us a little bit how you think your entry level experience has set you up for success.
Sam Arpino:
Yeah, absolutely. So when I started at DoSomething, and I'm going to hyper focus in on DoSomething because prior to being here, I was a Teach For America core member. And I think that when you're in the kind of organization that has the structure of trajectory kind of built in it, it looks a little bit different, right, to position yourself in a particular way. And everyone's kind of just floating and going through a preset trajectory.
But I think for a lot of people, and me, myself included, being a first generation college graduate, when I came into a regular full-time job for the first time not within the confines and structure of an organization like Teach For America, I really had to kind of find my own path, and I didn't necessarily have a structure or rubric to kind of lean on and look to and say, "Okay, what do I do to move from point A to point B?"
And for me, when I was hired here at DoSomething, it originally was on our campaigns team overseeing the sex violence and relationship campaigns that we create, so lots of really touchy topics like sexual assault and sexual harassment on college campuses, violence, really, really difficult topics. And what I realized in hindsight is, as an entry level employee, while I was doing lower level day-to-day things, there were some things that I brought to the table that my manager was able to identify as my values and things that aren't necessarily teachable.
Skills are teachable. If you want to raise your hand and move from one industry to another, one function to another, skills can always be learned outside of the workplace or sometimes inside. But it was that foundation of obviously doing the day-to-day work at a good level and producing good things. But I think more importantly was I did not fall into the trap of being kind of flustered in an entry level role and understanding that I didn't necessarily know how to navigate an office environment to the fullest.
And my values kind of carried me through that. I did not get caught up in water cooler gossip or anything like that. And I think because I positioned myself as someone who was trustworthy, someone who had values and morals that were aligned with the company, those higher level things that aren't necessarily teachable, that's what people I think identified with me. And when I did finally raise my hand to say, "I want to try something new," even if I didn't have the skill for them to look at and say "Okay, she can definitely do this job," they knew that those kind of core aspects of my personality and the things that I did hit the ground running with when I first started as an entry level employee, those would kind of carry me through.
Callie Zipple:
And I think what's so important about that is that you were this person the whole time, right?
Sam Arpino:
Mm-hmm.
Callie Zipple:
You didn't show up to the job and be one person on day one and realize on day 10 that you had to be somebody else.
Sam Arpino:
Exactly.
Callie Zipple:
I think that's so hard for some of us when we show up to jobs and we think that we have to fit this mold and find out that we have to maybe fit another mold or we don't like that mold or whatever. And so I think showing up as your true authentic self will get you much further than being somebody that you're not, right?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah, absolutely. And I often hear people say all the buzzwords of like, "Bring your full self to work. Bring whatever version of yourself to work." And I kind of go back and forth and I think about that a lot. I don't necessarily believe, especially at the entry level when you're still figuring out who you are in a professional capacity, that bringing your full self to work is actually the way to go about it. I think a lot of, at the entry level, what you should be doing is figuring out what is an authentic version of yourself, where you are bringing a version of yourself that's true to who you are, that you feel good about when you lay your head down at night after a long day of work, but isn't necessarily your full self, right?
Because I think in reality, every single person, no matter who you are, has aspects of either their personality or things about them that they need to work on, and bringing that into work is likely not going to be setting you up for success to be seen as someone who can be trusted with moving to that next level. And one piece of advice for folks who are at the entry level is to take some time to think, what does it look like for you to develop an authentic professional version of yourself? It's true to you, it's something and a version of yourself that you're proud to be, while also understanding that there are maybe parts of anybody's personality, not any particular person, but anybody's personality that maybe should be left at the door because it's not going to help you advance in your career.
Callie Zipple:
And I'm so glad that you got to that statement, because I I'll be honest. When you said, "Don't bring your full self to work," I sort of was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." But I get where you're coming from. Right? Sometimes we need to take a look at the work environment. If we swear at home, is it really necessary to swear at work? So I totally get where you're coming from now. And I'm, like I said, so glad you got to the place that you did with your answer.
For me, the entry level role that I started in, and our listeners know this, but I started in recruiting. And without that entry level experience, I wouldn't have, number one, gotten the break into HR that I wanted and needed, but also wouldn't have understood which direction I wanted my career to go. So I am so thankful for the entry level recruiting role that I had right after graduation. And without it, again, I don't think I would be where I am today with all of the experience in HR that I have.
Sam Arpino:
No, absolutely. And it's foundational, right? Whatever that first role is, you take from it what you can and you learn from that, and then you build on that.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. Agreed. So the next question I'm going to push you into is, a lot of times we think we're ready for that next step, but we're, again, not really sure what it looks like, not really sure how to have that conversation, so how would you suggest somebody look at their role and look at where they're at in their career and recognize that they're ready for that next step?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah. It's a great question. I think it takes a lot of introspection. I think it's really easy, especially at a more junior level, to look around at your peers and say, "Okay, this peer of mine just got promoted. This peer of mine switched jobs. This peer of mine who has the same manager as me doesn't vibe with our manager, and they decided to leave the company." It's easy to look around and kind of compare yourself to what other people are doing, but it really takes a lot of that self-reflection to say, "Okay, who am I, and where do I want to be?" I often also hear junior folks saying things like, "I have nothing to learn from this person, or I have nothing to learn from this opportunity," and kind of getting frustrated with that.
And I think a lot of it starts with a mindset of saying, "What does it look like if you go into a situation..." Maybe you have a new manager. Maybe you have a new project on your plate. What does it look like when you go into that situation with a mindset of like, "What can I take from this? Not saying this is where I want to be forever, but what can I take from this opportunity and this situation and learn from and grow from that," versus kind of going in with that defensive, kind of defeated, "Ugh, I'm doing the same kind of thing, or this person isn't who I want to manage me," or whatever that might be.
I think it takes a lot of introspection to say, "Am I ready to move on from this situation on my own timeline, or am I comparing myself to other people?" And also, sometimes it takes someone more senior than you pointing it out. One of the most profound moments for me in my career was when I had a manager kind of sit me down and say, "Do you realize that you are someone who almost every single person on the staff trusts and trusts to have these tough conversations with," at the time in the capacity with my campaigns team role.
And although I saw myself as a very trustworthy person, I didn't necessarily think that that was known. And you don't always have the fortune of having a manager or having someone more senior to you that will sit you down and give you that career-altering kind of compliment. Sometimes you have to seek it out. If you have the mentor or if you have a good relationship with your manager, sitting them down and saying, "I'm in a place where I'm looking or trying to figure out what my next move might be, and it would be really helpful to know from you, what do you see as my biggest strength? What do you see as my unique add to the team?"
And sometimes just getting that from someone on the outside, it can position you to be like, "Okay, that's not actually something that I want to be known for, or that's not my proudest accomplishment." And it helps you kind of redirect to make sure that the person that you're being introspective about wanting to be is actually aligning with the person that you're bringing to work every day.
Callie Zipple:
I couldn't agree more. And I think the thing that's hardest for me, and this might be because I'm the most competitive person I know, but the comparison, right?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah.
Callie Zipple:
When you work with a bunch of people who have the same job title and you're like, "Well, I feel like I'm doing way more work, or I feel like I'm getting pulled into more projects than they are, and do these titles really make sense since they're the same?" And I think it's so profound to look at your situation as just you, rather than looking at where you fit within a more team structure. I think that's such a great idea and way for people to think about whether or not they're ready for that next step. It's not necessarily, where do I fit in this team and am I doing all of the right things to be a great team player and all of that, but it's so much more than that, right?
To your point, am I learning? Am I continuing to learn? Do I feel like people are learning from me? That's another aspect of it, too. To your point, everybody trusts you. Everybody sees you as a valued contributor. That's not necessarily something we would know or think to ask about in performance reviews and in conversations with coworkers. So I love that idea, and really asking other people, "What value do you feel I bring to the team, and where can I bring more of that to conversations?" I love that idea.
Sam Arpino:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think also knowing who is listening to this conversation that we're having, I think it's also important for HR professionals to remember that when it comes to managers training, we also should be making sure that we're encouraging managers to not be comparing the people on their team in that same way. Right? I think it's really easy to say, "This person has X output, this person has Y output, so therefore, person A is a better performer and that's the person who should be promoted." And it's so much more than that. Is the person performing at their best ability? How do we identify that? And is someone performing in a way that really makes a difference to the team, to the team culture, the dynamics, the overall productivity that may not be directly related to output? And how do we foster that? How do we make sure that those-
Callie Zipple:
[inaudible 00:16:37].
Sam Arpino:
... I hate the term soft skills, but that those soft skills are also really appreciated and valued?
Callie Zipple:
Well, and how can we make sure that everybody has what they need to be successful?
Sam Arpino:
Absolutely.
Callie Zipple:
Have we created an environment where people can raise their hand and say, "Hey, I need more of that in order to do my job better," even if it's not necessarily related to that output conversation. Right? And we did an episode in season one about talent calibration, and this sort of comes back to that idea. It's not just within your own team, how well people lead others. It's also how well they interact with other functions and how they lead other functions to success as well. Because the success of a business doesn't always fall on one department, right?
Sam Arpino:
For sure.
Callie Zipple:
And you could be sitting in one department over here, but the way that you impact the success of other departments that lead ultimately to the success of the business as a whole is almost more important than, again, where you fit within your own team. Right?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's also an additional layer to that that says, "How can we make sure that we're being equitable in those conversations?" Because from a diversity and inclusion lens, not everyone is coming to the table with those same historic resources or those same conversations that were happening in their childhood. And I think I'm hypersensitive to that as a first gen college student, or graduate now, saying, "I didn't have these conversations happening at the dinner table when I was a kid. I didn't have the conversations of my mom talking about promotions and struggles at work and things like that and interpersonal dynamics."
And so if you don't see that at a certain point in your life, and you are judging that person on the same level as someone else who has been exposed to that from a very young age, are we setting people up for success to really be the best people they can be professionally for themselves, but also for our companies? Are we getting the most out of them if we are treating all of these situations as a kind of cookie cutter across the board, when every person is bringing their own lived experiences that will influence ultimately how they approach their work and what it looks like for them to be bringing their unique value add to the team?
Callie Zipple:
And I think I'm derailing us a tiny bit, but this just resonated with me so much, because I had a very great piece of feedback from a supervisor at one point where I have this weird interest in words. When I hear a word that's used and I don't know what it is, I get really excited about looking it up and learning about it and then being able to use it in my own vocabulary.
Sam Arpino:
Same.
Callie Zipple:
But what I find is that sometimes when other people don't know words that I use, I get annoyed.
Sam Arpino:
Interesting.
Callie Zipple:
And I have really loud non-verbals, so some of the feedback that I got was that people who are curious or say, "Hey, I don't know what that is, or can you explain that to me or define that for me," whatever, I can't be annoyed by that because they're just as curious as I am. And I need to be respectful of their lack of knowledge of that word, or whether it's a topic or a thing that we're talking about in a meeting, right? I can't default to, "Oh my God, I can't believe you didn't know that," to, okay, how can I use my leadership skills to get them onto the same level as me? And then we can both work forward from there.
Sam Arpino:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it even takes the mental shift of saying, "How do we not only not get annoyed with those situations, but actively, verbally, and non-verbally, appreciate and praise those people for raising their hand and asking that question?" Because for every person who kind of goes on a limb to do that with the potential that they're being looked at a particular way in that room or being judged in a particular way, there's, I guarantee, at least one or two other people at the table who don't know that same thing, but would prefer to wait until after the meeting to go Google it on their own. But is that affecting productivity? Is that affecting team trust? Do people feel like they can be vulnerable and not know something? And I think all that's very intimately connected.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. You can't see me, but I was doing the preach emoji over here behind my microphone. But you're so right. You're so right. We need to have environments that allow for people to raise their hand and be curious. Right?
Sam Arpino:
Absolutely.
Callie Zipple:
I love that. I love all of it. So I'm going to push us into our next question, and this sort of really operationalizes it for people who are ready to have that conversation but don't know how. So how can we help other people prepare or get themselves ready for what that conversation looks like with their supervisor? So they've done the introspection, they've looked at their own role, and they're ready to say, "I'm ready for more. I'm ready to learn this over here or that over there." How can they verbalize that with their manager or supervisor?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah. I think that's the most important part, right, is how do we do... It's great to talk about, but how do you actually do it? I think there are a few things. The first is, and I hate that I kind of have to preface it with this, but I think it's really important to be honest about taking a look at the culture of the place where you work and seeing, what is the norm? Is it the kind of culture where people are very transparently having these conversations, or is it more the norm where people are having these conversations on the side, a little bit more hush-hush, and you have to be a little bit more careful about how you approach it?
And I know that's a hard thing to have to kind of digest about the place where you're working, but I think it ultimately will set people up, especially at the entry level, to be seen as more ready to take that next step if they also have been able to observe and absorb their environment in that way and kind of hit that sweet spot of whatever the expectations at their current place might be. If these conversations aren't happening organically and it's very much the culture where it's like this happens during your review period and that's it, then you have kind of a date that you're working up to.
But if you're at a place, maybe more of a startup vibe, definitely a place like DoSomething, where these conversations are happening regularly, it's really about your own, for lack of a better term, like oomph to push yourself to have this conversation at a check-in, or really on a timeline that makes sense for you. So I think the first thing you should do is assess the culture of the place that you're in and kind of act accordingly.
The second thing, and this is just something I've gathered from a lot of conversations with more junior folks both at DoSomething and outside in my personal life, but I think that sometimes it can be really difficult to hit the mark of saying, "I want to be transparent about being ready to either move on within the company to a new role or a promotion or whatever that might be. I'm ready to take on more responsibility," or if you're looking to leave, whatever that might be, but that sweet spot of being transparent without coming across as wishy-washy, right?
You don't want to come across as, "I think I might want to do this. I'm not sure if I want to do this." I think oftentimes, that uncertainty that you may be feeling internally, it can come across as very green to also bring that uncertainty just out in the open to a manager or someone who's more senior. And I think it can be kind of scary to them to say, "Okay, what are you actually trying to tell me?" And sometimes assumptions can be made and gaps can be filled with assumptions that you did not intend to be the case.
So if you are not sure what you want, what more responsibility looks like to you, or if this is the place you want to be, whatever situation you might be in, I always suggest... This is my thing. I say this every single time I do a talk. I always suggest that at the start of your career, you start developing and figuring out what your non-negotiables are in a position. And that's going to look different for every person. I say three to five non-negotiables are things that no matter what the salary might be that they're offering you, no matter how flashy of a title it might be, whatever the situation is, you won't get distracted by that if it doesn't hit the things that are really important to you.
So for example, one of my non-negotiables is to be in a people-facing role. That means that maybe I'll make a career switch one day and do business development. Maybe I'll do a career switch one day and do marketing. Anything that's people-facing, it fits into that non-negotiable for me. But if I'm ever presented with an opportunity that has a big pay bump or has a fancy title or something like that but I find out that the function of the role is very internal and not very people-facing, I'm ultimately going to be unhappy by it.
And I think when people are making that decision for themselves about whether or not they're ready to have this conversation and what that even looks like, they can be presented with so many different options. And again, especially leaving college when everything is very structured for you... You apply for these classes, you register for these classes, and then you graduate. When you're presented with opportunities like, "Do I leave the company? Do I talk about taking more responsibility? Do I ask about taking a manager's course," you're presented with all these potential next steps, it can be really overwhelming.
And so I think setting those non-negotiables for yourself can help ground you and help focus your conversation with your manager that says... Even if you're saying, "I don't know exactly what I want to do next, but I know that this is important to me and these are the things that I'm looking for," I think will present you as maybe being more senior to some degree that you might be, because it shows that you've taken that time to not just reflect on what you need and what you're thinking about, but how that also would impact the opportunities that could be presented to you in turn.
And I think the last thing that I want to mention is just coming prepared and being prepared to ask questions and making it a conversation. One thing that I've seen folks do that I would highly advise against is they kind of come in on the defense. They're ready to talk about all the things that they've accomplished and kind of pitch themselves and then just push. And oftentimes, maybe unless you're in that kind of environment, which I don't even think exists as much as it used to anymore, that's actually not what's going to get you that next step. A lot of times it's about showing that you have those communication skills, those listening skills, asking your manager where they see you, where they see the team going, what opportunities might be coming up in the next year.
And sometimes it also means saying, "Hey, you may not see me as ready to be promoted right now, but I feel like I'm ready, and so I would love to know what that gap is. What is that gap that you're not seeing for me that I can take on and I can work on over the next one or two quarters to show that I am in a place that's ready to move on to the next step?" And I think making that more of a discussion and not coming in on the defense is going to set you up ultimately for success and understanding that you're ready to get a better sense of the business case from both the manager side, and then of course from yours.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. And I think for me, I've had a lot of conversations with employees who come to HR expecting us to be the ones to define their career path and how they get to that next level and all of that. And it's been a very difficult conversation at times to say, "You need to take ownership of your career. You need to take ownership of your own success." And I think we know how to do that as HR professionals, but I think we need to, again, as HR professionals, empower our managers and our employees to take ownership of that growth opportunity, and really identify what that means for them rather than saying, "Okay, HR's role in an organization is to build success plans for employees." Because we don't have time to do that for all of our employees, right? So we need to make sure that our employees and our managers know what that process looks like and empower them to do just that without necessarily have to do it for them as the HR function.
Sam Arpino:
Absolutely. Give them the tools, give them the resources, give them the training, and hire great people to have those conversations on their own.
Callie Zipple:
For sure. Agreed. So last question. I think sometimes for YPs and millennials, it's hard to get advancement opportunities, or we perceive it hard because of our age or our perceived inexperience. How can we work as young professionals to break down those stereotypes in our own organizations to help other YPs and millennials have a greater chance for success?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah. I think about this all the time. DoSomething, actually, our staff is about 85% millennials, so we are in the thick of this every day in making sure that our culture is reflective of the population that we have here in the office as our staff. So I think the first thing I would say is to encourage people to raise their hand, to take those smaller opportunities that have the right people in the room. I think about the conversations I've had with folks with their own development where they're like, "My manager told me that in order to move on to the next level, I need to be more confident with the way that I run meetings or the way that I speak in front of people to be seen kind of as a leader."
Right? And I think it's a natural default to maybe hear that and either be discouraged by it or say, "Okay, so when can I go talk at a conference?" And that is not necessarily going to be helpful for you to kind of establish yourself as someone who is really taking the feedback and digesting it and working to move on to that next step. And instead, I think raising your hand and saying, "Oh, we're having some folks come visit the office next week. I saw it on the calendar. Would I be able to lead the intro session on what DoSomething is?"
And if you are raising your hand to say, "I want to take on this opportunity. I took your feedback, I digested it, and now I want to improve on this aspect of my development in a context where the right people are going to be in the room and the right people are going to see me taking this leap," I think that kind of positions people to do something in a way where the right people get to see you and hopefully get to move you in that direction to the next step, kind of co-leading those projects or presentations. I think in bigger companies, if you don't have the opportunities to say, "I want to lead this presentation totally on my own," can you raise your hand and say, "I want to co-lead?" Raise your hand and say, "I want to be there to support with this initiative." And I think not being afraid to raise your hand. Oftentimes we hold ourselves back in saying, "Am I ready for this?"
I think that's the biggest piece of advice I would give, is if you're in an environment with maybe not a lot of millennials or not a lot of young folks and you're concerned about that perception of you, the best thing you can do is raise your hand for those smaller opportunities to baby step your way up until enough people see you crushing it, that it's like, oh, you are now associated with someone who pushes yourself. You are now associated with being someone who takes those risks and maybe fails and maybe messes up, but it's not going to stop you from continuing to raise your hand. And I think that bounce back from failure and that bounce back from tough feedback is something that we can all do to better our careers, but especially for young folks in the workplace.
Callie Zipple:
And the only thing I'll add to that is that sometimes, and I found myself doing this probably up until the role that I currently have, is making sure that I insert into every conversation how successful I am. And that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but I did it a lot, right? When I would start a new job, like, "Oh, we did this at my last job, and it was really successful." And sometimes people just get tired of that.
So I've really tried to, especially in this role, sort of take a step back and let my work speak for itself and allow for other people to give me positive and sometimes negative feedback rather than sort of asserting myself and my success or my dominance into the conversation. Right? So really let what I do and where my work sort of speaks for itself and really just allowing it to do that. That's not something I've been really good at in the past, and so it's something that I've taken on as a goal in this current role to just, again, let the work speak for itself and not feel the need to constantly push my success in other people's face, if that makes sense.
Sam Arpino:
No, absolutely. And I think that that relates to just one other thing I wanted to mention about millennials and young people in the workplace more generally, is I think a lot of the time, the same way that we can maybe be assertive and think that's what we need to do, I think we also make, oftentimes, a lot of assumptions about words and when we're getting feedback, like, what do those words actually mean? What does that look like? I'm thinking of someone who I used to work with that would come to me as HR and talk to me about feedback that they were getting and how they weren't doing enough strategy.
That was the feedback they were getting. They're like, "We can't promote you because you're not doing enough high level strategic thinking." And they would bring to me all these examples of what they defined as high level strategic thinking. They were like, "But I don't understand. I'm doing X, Y, and Z." And my feedback to them in the moment was, "Are you sure that the work that you're pouring your blood, sweat, and tears into is producing the high level strategic thinking that they're expecting to see out of you, and that strategic thinking is defined the same between you and them?"
And she very quickly was able to take a step back and be like, "No, I actually never asked, 'What does that look like for you?'" And I think we can make a lot of assumptions because we don't want to look stupid. We don't want to look junior. And so we're afraid to say, "You want me to be more strategic. What does that look like?" And sometimes kind of sticking your neck out and asking that question will save you a lot of time, and it'll also help you to get it right sooner, which in turn will, of course, make you look better.
Callie Zipple:
First, Sam, this conversation has been amazing. I really appreciate you coming out.
Sam Arpino:
Thank you.
Callie Zipple:
Is there anything you want to share with our listeners really quick before I wrap things up?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah. I think it's really important for us to enter these conversations when we're thinking about entry level to next level, to say that it starts internally. And it could sound really corny and cliche, but you have to believe that you're ready. You have to believe that you're worthy of that next step. And especially I see this a lot with folks who have marginalized identities in the workplace, women in the workplace, constantly questioning whether or not we are ready for that next move. And it really starts with, other people are going to see your worth when you see yours first, and you raise your hand, you take those opportunities. You're not afraid to stick your neck out. And so I think doing that work first is probably the biggest piece of advice that I would want people to leave with.
Callie Zipple:
And I think my advice would just be to be confident, right? At some point-
Sam Arpino:
Absolutely.
Callie Zipple:
... we need to be our own best advocate. And if you've done the research, you've identified your non-negotiables, like you said, and you're ready to have that conversation, just be confident in it and just dive in. Right?
Sam Arpino:
Go for it.
Callie Zipple:
I think that's definitely what I would leave our listeners with if I had one last piece of advice. But again, Sam, thanks. This has been great. I think we've been able to give other people some tips and tidbits to having these conversations and getting to that next level when they're ready. But if people want to continue the conversation with you, what's the best way that they reach out?
Sam Arpino:
Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn, Sam Arpino, and currently work at DoSomething, so you can find me that way as well. And please, if you're listening to this and you're at that point, especially if you are a more junior person ready to take that next step, I am always happy to have those conversations, so please reach out via LinkedIn.
Callie Zipple:
Great. And same goes for me. I'm happy to have some conversations with people if you want to continue what we're talking about today. My email is Callie.Zipple@SHRM.org. You can find me on LinkedIn, obviously, Callie Zipple, and then @SHRMCallieZ on Twitter and Instagram. Don't forget to go to our SHRM.org/HonestHR website. You can do your subscribing there. You can also give us some guest and topic ideas. We want to hear from you, right? So anything you have for us, we want to hear it.
This season two is all about you, so go out to SHRM.org/HonestHR, or reach out to me however you need to. This episode is part one of mini-series one. Next week's episode will be part two. We'll provide you with the SHRM professional development credit or PDC code for listening at the end of the final episode of this mini-series. You must listen to all parts of the mini-series in order to use the PDC code towards your SHRM re-certification. Thanks for being SHRM certified and for listening to our Honest HR podcast.