In the midst of an election year, political tensions are running high everywhere, and the workplace is no exception. Employees are likewise coming to work with their political views top of mind, which they don’t always share or express with civility and respect. In this episode of Honest HR, host Amber Clayton is joined by SHRM Chief of Staff, Emily M. Dickens, and SHRM Senior Researcher Derrick Scheetz for a discussion of SHRM’s latest research on the topic of workplace civility as it pertains to political conversations at work, SHRM’s initiative to start 1 million civil conversations, and steps organizations can take to cultivate more civil workplaces.
In the midst of an election year, political tensions are running high everywhere, and the workplace is no exception. Employees are likewise coming to work with their political views top of mind, which they don’t always share or express with civility and respect. In this episode of Honest HR, host Amber Clayton is joined by SHRM Chief of Staff, Emily M. Dickens, and SHRM Senior Researcher Derrick Scheetz for a discussion of SHRM’s latest research on the topic of workplace civility as it pertains to political conversations at work, SHRM’s initiative to start 1 million civil conversations, and steps organizations can take to cultivate more civil workplaces.
This episode is sponsored by Fidelity Workplace.
Earn 1.00 SHRM PDC for listening; details provided in episode.
Rate and review Honest HR on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Intro/Outro:
This episode is sponsored by Fidelity Workplace. Fidelity Workplace helps employers and their advisors improve employee well-being through a range of financial, retirement, and health benefits. Visit fidelityworkplace.com to learn more.
Speaker 1:
How often do you experience or witness uncivil behavior in the workplace? Nearly two thirds of U. S. workers have in the past month alone. Every voice makes a difference, and a better workplace starts with you. Integrate civility into your organization when you join us for SHRM Inclusion 2024, November 4-7 in Denver.
Learn to protect, prioritize, and empower the workforce, and give employees the opportunity to thrive. Be part of the momentum, and learn more at shrm. org slash inclusion 24 honesthr.
Monique Akanbi:
Welcome to Honest HR, the podcast for HR professionals, people managers, and team leads, intent on growing our companies for the better.
Amber Clayton:
We bring you honest forward-thinking conversations and relatable stories from the workplace that challenge the way it's always been done. Because after all, you have to push back to move forward.
Wendy Fong:
Honest HR is a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. And by listening, you're helping create better workplaces and a better world. I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton.
Monique Akanbi:
And I'm Monique Akanbi. Now let's get honest.
Amber Clayton:
Hello everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Amber Clayton, senior director of SHRM's Knowledge Center Operations. In our episode, we're going to discuss the technical competency, HR expertise, employee and labor relations. I often speak of SHRM's Ask an Advisor service where members can contact our experienced and knowledgeable HR advisors and get guidance and resources on any HR-related topic.
We receive over 55,000 inquiries a year, and some of those questions are related to politics in the workplace, the timely topic that we're going to be discussing today. I am pleased to be joined by Derrick Scheetz, SHRM Senior Researcher, and Emily Dickens, SHRM Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs, and Corporate Secretary.
Welcome to the show, Derrick, and welcome back Emily.
Emily M. Dickens:
Glad to be here.
Derrick Scheetz:
Thank you, Amber.
Amber Clayton:
No problem. And for those of you who are just listening or just started listening to the Honest HR podcast, Emily was actually a guest of the show a couple years ago where we discussed the implications of Roe, v. Wade being overturned, another hotly debated topic.
And Derrick, since you're new to the podcast, I'm going to let you go first. If you could just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, your background, and years of service for SHRM.
Derrick Scheetz:
Yeah, sure. I'd love to. Thanks, Amber. Hi, everybody, I'm Derrick Scheetz, a senior researcher on SHRM's thought leadership team. I've been at SHRM officially for about six years. I actually started as an intern on the research team, and I've pretty much been here ever since my internship.
So in my time here, I've been involved and led a handful of research projects, all the way from SHRM's Annual Employee Benefits Survey and the year-over-year data collection that we do for that. I've also been involved and had the pleasure to be involved in and lead projects related to Second Chance hiring, and dealing with formerly incarcerated individuals and getting them back into the workplace, as well as skilled credentials and skills-based hiring topics. Those two, particularly dealing with our foundation here at SHRM, the SHRM Foundation.
I've also done work for HR related benchmark metrics and gathering data that looks at those types of numbers and really things that all sorts of HR professionals love to benchmark themselves to not only their department, but also the business at large, as well as projects related to empathy and other areas as well. So outside of that, I hold a master's degree in Applied I-O psychology from the University of Baltimore.
Amber Clayton:
Awesome. And I actually went to University of Baltimore as well.
Derrick Scheetz:
Oh, very good.
Amber Clayton:
Emily, could you go ahead and give us a refresher for the people who haven't listened to you or heard you on other podcasts and webcasts before?
Emily M. Dickens:
Sure, Amber, thanks for having me, and good to see you Derrick. I can't believe you've been here six years.
Amber Clayton:
I know, right?
Emily M. Dickens:
So I've been at SHRM a little bit over six years and have had various areas of responsibility. Right now, I'm responsible for a few divisions. I'm chief of staff, I'm head of government affairs, I'm head of Legal Affairs. Our SHRM foundation reports up through me, and there's probably one other thing I'm forgetting about right about now, but I love being the liaison to our board of directors, amazing group of volunteers.
And our policy team leads by this mantra, I think you all know, policy not politics, and we'll get into that a little bit later. And it's been one of the hallmarks of our work over the last five years. I'm a trained attorney by training, and really proud to be still engaged in the world of higher ed because I began my career as a lobbyist in higher education. And the education to employment pipeline is so critical to our workplaces. So very happy I get to use those years of experience as we come up with our strategies on how to create the best policy for our workplaces. So really excited to be here.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, thank you. And we're glad to have you. So today's topic I said is politics in the workplace. And I'm imagining employers right now going, "Ugh," thinking about the headaches that come with these things that happen with politics in the workplace. And for me, personally, I usually avoid political conversations, especially on social media and with my family and friends because I see what happens. People can really become disrespectful. They refuse to listen, understand the other person's role, where they're coming from.
And sometimes they're just not open to anything other than their own opinions. And it results in heated debates. And then you see someone blocking somebody on Facebook or another social media platform, and sometimes cutting off family and friends altogether. I've seen that. I think it's widely known in anticipated that engaging in conversations about politics or religion or social issues can often lead to conflict when the parties have differing opinions. What have you experienced with this?
Emily M. Dickens:
Wow, you want me to go first?
Amber Clayton:
Sure.
Emily M. Dickens:
Well, I think I shared the story with you that in my prior world, I had a privilege of serving as the general counsel for an organization called the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. And when the former administration was celebrating Black History Month, it was also our annual HBCU Week. And Thurgood Marshall College Fund represents all of the nation's public HBCUs. So we were on the hill, we actually were in the White House in the executive office building, if you know anything about the White House, so it's separate from the West Wing, meeting with the Secretary of Education and the Vice President of the United States as part of this HBCU Advocacy Day. And Alma Rosa, if you remember her. Megan Alk comes in and she says, "I just told President Trump that there are 90 HBCU presidents over in the executive office building, and he wants to meet you all."
So I'm probably the only person in the room who is not president of something at this time. And so, my natural inclination was, "Well good, I'm not going. I can just stay here, and they'll all get to do it." But if you work for Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., you know he never leaves anyone behind. So he told me, "You're coming with us." So we end up there, and that whole event was a watershed moment in the history of HBCUs and HBCU access to the top levels of government in this country. 90 presidents in the Oval Office at the same time.
And no one, as you all know, when you go in the Oval Office, you can't have your phone. So the only people who had their phones would've been staff. And so the picture that is seen around the world is this picture of a Trump staffer with her shoes off on the couch taking the photo. She had been asked to-
Amber Clayton:
Oh, yeah, I do remember that.
Emily M. Dickens:
... Take the photo because none of us had our phones. Because our phones were taken from us when we were over there. But of course, you saw it was completely misconstrued. And the big picture, the fact that people who were lobbying for access to higher ed and higher ed funding for the least of us in this country were having the opportunity to at least be heard and be seen. That was totally lost in the conversation for a good period of time. The photo ends up on the front of Wall Street Journal, big, big newspapers the next day. And somehow, in the midst of these 90 people, you could see me in the photo. And I had someone on Facebook literally say to me, "Oh, well how could you go in his office?"
Now let's be clear, Oval Office is our office. We're all United States citizens. And I can't tell you how, leaving that office, the first thing I did was get my phone back, and text my mother and say, "Your child was just in the Oval Office of United States of America." And so, I think people have to be careful and stop trying to put what they believe onto situations, because again, you don't know the whole situation unless you're in it. And there were so many levels to that situation that were not seen because people had a way, they felt a certain way about who was in the office at that time, instead of thinking about all other facets of it.
And so personally, it really at that point pointed to me, it was probably the second major thing, other than the day after the election, pointing to me at how people couldn't even coalesce over something that could be good or couldn't even see the positives there. So that's one example.
Amber Clayton:
And that is a really good example. I will tell you, I do not have experience being in the White House, so what I'm learning is from you today. And yeah, one of my employees actually was invited to the White House during the Trump administration when we were talking about Second Chances Act, I believe, and I was so excited for her.
We talked about, regardless of political party affiliation, how many times do you have an opportunity to be there in the White House speaking to the president and others in the administration? It's just a once in a lifetime opportunity, and she really enjoyed being there and part of that conversation.
Emily M. Dickens:
Thanks for saying that because I think the other issues, people think it's just us people who do this policy work, but a normal citizen who went to work one day working in research or working in the knowledge center ended up being in her people's house. And I say that to people because we just don't send our government affairs team there.
There have been many people who work at SHRM, that for different reasons, because they had a special expertise and we were working on an issue, we want to inform the decisions being made. And you don't stop working on those things so that you can inform them, you want to keep leveraging your voice as much as you can so that your voice will be heard, because that's our role here, is to make sure people hear differing opinions and get the best data and research that they can get when they're making those opinions. I'm glad to hear that she did that.
Amber Clayton:
Great. How about you Derrick? Have you any personal or professional experiences with politics on social, friends, family?
Derrick Scheetz:
Yeah. Well, first of all, I definitely agree with your comment, Amber, around Emily. That's such a great example. And I don't think thus far in my life I can really top that, certainly. But I hope one day to have a story similar to that. So that would be great. But I'm pretty lucky-
Amber Clayton:
In positive way, though.
Derrick Scheetz:
In a positive way. Yes, of course. And I have been fortunate, like I mentioned, to be involved with some of the research and the activities around the Second Chance hiring. So yeah, that was definitely a huge conversation point to have when SHRM and others were involved in those discussions with the highest office in the land. So that was great to see.
But thus far, I've been pretty fortunate. I think about political conversations pretty often, just in my line of work and what I do, and what we think about here. And like I just mentioned over the past, say, four or five years really, since the entire piece around the Policy Not Politics initiative that Emily mentioned, I've been involved in that in a number of different ways, whether it be supporting or leading different research initiatives on specific points of policy or whether it be looking at something specific that really any administration has come out with or any sort of state or any other type of advocacy effort that SHRM and others are involved with or leading many times.
And then certainly, over the COVID pandemic years, that was a lot of different things going on. And that really kick-started a lot of the things that in many ways pushed us to where we are today, where today, I'm actually leading research around civility and really diving deep on those interactions with politics looked at as one of the core motivators. And one of the pieces that we're investigating are something that we believe, and we really expect this being an election year to really tie into a lot of uncivil behaviors and uncivil interactions, and things like that.
So I'm sure we'll dive a little bit deeper on that here today. But separately from that then, I'm also happy to say that I'm actually leading a research project right now. I can't say too much about it yet because it's still very early on, but we're actually looking into and identifying organizations and workers who are actually able to successfully navigate the tricky landscape that are having these political conversations, as well as other topics that are really difficult to talk about at work.
So hopefully, we're going to come out of that with a really good case and really good points of success that people can look to say, "Well, here's how we can do it, here's how they did it, so I can apply that to my own organization." So, more to come on that for sure. But thus far, I've been pretty fortunate to think about these things, but I think about things, and I feel like we on our team do a pretty good job of keeping things rather civil and keeping the goal in mind.
Amber Clayton:
Well, it's interesting that you said that because I was just going to talk about the employers and how they have to deal with issues at work related to politics, including things like feuding employees and that research that you talked about civility at work. It's not specific to politics, as you mentioned, but I think we can all agree that civility at work is vital, especially when you're in a presidential election year where tensions seem to run high.
So Derrick, just broadly, could you tell us briefly what the Civility Index is, why we did that research on the topic, and what does civility at work mean?
Derrick Scheetz:
Yeah, absolutely. So the Civility Index is a pulse survey designed by our researchers here at SHRM, which measures the prevailing levels of civility, and probably especially, it measures the levels of incivility that people are both experiencing and witnessing in their place of work, but also in American society at large, which is a little bit different than a lot of the other research that we do here at SHRM.
So in the Civility Index, respondents indicate how often that they personally have experienced or that they've witnessed uncivil behaviors over the course of the past month. And then these questions and the data that we gather from that are asked both through the lens of what they've been observing in their everyday lives, but also what they're seeing in the workplace. And then we put those scores on a 100 point scale, and then that gets us our Civility Index score.
So thus far, the Civility Index score that we found for quarter one of this year for people's everyday lives, meaning the societal type of score, that came in at around a 42.3 out of 100. And for the workplace, or asking people specifically to tell us what they're seeing at work, that score comes into the 37.5 out of 100. And while immediately, those scores may not seem very high relative to there being a lot of the scores range available, we've determined and we've seen that things are actually not that good at these current scores.
For example, at the current scores, we're able to determine through the same research that US workers are collectively experiencing over 171 million acts or instances of incivility in their lives, and that they experience over 67.5 million acts or instances of incivility at work per day, on average. And what's more, we found that compared to those who say that they seldom observe incivility in their workplace, workers who are at that average score are more likely to say that their workplace has a poor workplace culture. They're less likely to say that they feel included at work, they're more likely to leave their current job, and they're more likely to report feeling indifferent about whether they're performing well or not.
So I think that while the current score and where we're at right now may not appear all that big, there's a lot going on there. And really, the time is right now, to begin thinking about how to change the outlook of these things and what we can do to ultimately drop the score and lower the score to ultimately make things come back to indicate that things are looking more civil overall, especially in terms of the behaviors that we're observing. So in that sense, this research that I outlined over time is what I'm excited about, and it's that fact that we're going to be continuing the research over the course of this year.
And those stats that I just mentioned are really exactly why we're looking at this topic because we want to equip organizations, HR professionals, and business leaders everywhere with that knowledge and guidance that they can apply to their own businesses to make their workplace better each day. And Amber, you already said it, that's something that we're especially looking at this year in a presidential election year, to be more relevant now than ever with tensions, probably higher, topics such as the election and everything that surrounds it, causing more and more polarization, and really putting a split in a gap between certain people and just ultimately making things harder.
So I think that those really echo a lot of the points around why we're exploring this. The Civility Index is something that we're going to evaluate over time, which again, that's something that I'm really excited about. We're going to see how this changes throughout the year, both leading up to the election, and then after the election, what's going to be happening. And then ultimately, what are the outcomes and results of that, and what inspires that.
So to answer the question that you had around what civility means, I would say that civility at work really with that intentional and really non-negotiable level of respect for everybody in the workplace. And that's my takeaway because civility really means different things to different people, but to me, that notion of respect is really the bedrock that's necessary for making civility and civil interactions work.
Amber Clayton:
Great. Well, thank you very much for all that information. And I know, as you mentioned, we have a campaign this year to encourage one million civil conversations.
So Emily, could you tell our listeners what this campaign is about? And did you have any additional thoughts about the information that we're getting from our research team?
Emily M. Dickens:
So the Civility Index for us, it is been helpful already. We've done a couple of sessions with different industry groups talking about that, and helping people to see that there is an issue, and they need to be really mindful of it as we are creeping up to November. And then even in the post-November, because I think I shared with you, it's the day after the election where you'll start to see people who are impacted, because no matter what, if you think about it in this country, 50% of the people are going to be unhappy with the outcome.
So having these discussions now, leveraging this data to help start the discussion. So maybe you're someone who was thinking that this was a problem, and now you've got the data that says it is a problem, and you talk to your leadership team about how you want to address it in your workplace. And again, SHRM doesn't bring you a problem without bringing you a solution. And this 1 Million Civil Conversations Initiative, it is one of those solutions. We're really big on starting conversations. I think you might recall our campaign some years ago, Convos and Coffee.
Amber Clayton:
Mm-hmm.
Emily M. Dickens:
And this is a little bit of civility, if we think about that. And we want to make sure that we're building trust and creating a safe space for others to share their thoughts. And it begins with every one of us. And so, our conversation cards for these civility questions, civility conversations, have prompts and best practices so that you can have something to guide you as you begin this process.
And then also, social media, as you know, is a great way to encourage people to join your campaign and to be more engaged. And so, there's the hashtag Civility at Work hashtag that goes with that as well, because we're all responsible for championing better workplaces through open and civil dialogue, and we've got to talk about it. We've got to share our commitment and engage with others. And people are following trends. This is a thing, and so make it a trend. But it's important that organizations explore resources for integrating awareness of civility in their organizations. And this 1 million civility Civil Conversations initiative, I think, is one way to do so.
Amber Clayton:
And I'm not aware of any other organization that's doing something like this specific to civility. I could be wrong, but I feel like we-
Emily M. Dickens:
Not this way. Not in this way.
Amber Clayton:
Not in this way, yes.
Emily M. Dickens:
Our CEO recently was in Utah. And there's an initiative from the National Governors Association, which, for those of you who don't know, always has, whoever the president is, that person is in one party, and then the vice chair is in another party. So the leadership is always going to have one of each party. And they decided this year that they needed to be vocal about disagreeing better.
So it's an actual campaign by our National Governors Association on disagreeing better. And I think it's great. I think if anything, as we've seen in the last few weeks in Congress and in other state legislatures across the country, our members, elected officials are maybe not behaving as well as we'd like them to. And there's time for a little bit of a reset there as well. And so, to see elected officials taking the lead and coming up with initiatives. But nothing like ours, nothing where we're telling everyone that we're all in this together, and one civil conversation can lead to two civil conversations.
Someone said to us one million is too low of a number. And that's great. We'd love to exceed that, but we actually just want people to think about it and think about just changing a word here or there. And then even, look, as Derrick mentioned before, civility means different things to different people. I've said this to you before, depending on what part of the country you're in, people may have a more aggressive tone because that's how everybody speaks to each other, and everyone is comfortable with that.
And then you go to another part of the country, and people have a softer tone, but in their head, they're figuring out how to put a knife in your back too. So you just got to know what the culture is. But the issue is how do we all figure out a way to make sure that everyone feels respected, as Derrick said. And you can't do that unless you're having conversations with one another and figuring out what are the things that matter, where your commonalities are, and how we can better work together.
Amber Clayton:
Yes. And I remember when we were doing Convos and Coffee a few years ago, and we talked about discussion, not debate. And it's always something that really stuck with me. But yeah, I think the campaign is great, and I would love to hear and see more than a million people are having civil conversations every day, yes.
Emily M. Dickens:
And I want that discussion, not debate, but I also tell people I was in, a lot of us, people who were JDs were in the debate club at school. We thought we were going to be litigators. And I think one of the things, the great things about debate is that there were rules around it.
Amber Clayton:
That's true.
Emily M. Dickens:
Though that term debate has a certain connotation to it, there are guardrails around how we engage with one another. And if we think about just a structured way of communicating, you don't have to like everyone to communicate with them respectfully and to have these guardrails around you. So it's just important that we think about that there are rules to how we engage with one another each day.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely. So, as employers, we want to be able to bring our whole selves to work, and we want our employees to be able to feel like they can do the same. And we want people to feel like they can have conversations. It's a safe space. They can share their point of views without having a fear of retaliation. And so I'm curious, Derrick, does the research on civility touch on mental health?
Derrick Scheetz:
It does. Especially in terms of the workplace, especially some of the areas around interactions and those points of conversation. We know through prior research that we had done earlier in this year actually, that psychological safety is one of the bigger victims of workplace incivility, where those who really interpret and see their workplace as a place that is uncivil and it is somewhere that they feel like that they actually can't express themselves, like you were saying, they are much less likely to feel like it's safe to disagree, to bring up new ideas, to really challenge the status quo.
And that is something that it's, in my mind at least, it's something so simple as just somebody's interpretation of just that, where they believe things are not civil. There's no opportunity for debate, like Emily was just describing, around having those guardrails in place. And just because of that, as an employer, you may be missing out on your next great idea, just because of that interpretation.
And that may be something that, unless you're having some conversations like we're saying, or unless you are doing something to really evaluate the climate of your organization and how people may be interpreting that, these things may be flying completely under the radar, and you may never be even aware of that. So it certainly is something that we're seeing, just from a mental health standpoint of how it directly impacts workers at work. It's something that employers are potentially suffering from even just day-to-day, just based on those perceptions.
In addition to psychological safety, our research also shows that those who observe more incivility in their lives say that they have a poorer work-life balance than those who do not. And in addition, they're actually almost twice as likely to say that they would be dissatisfied or that they are dissatisfied in their everyday lives. This is in and outside of work when they experience more incivility.
Amber Clayton:
Yeah, I can imagine mental health being one of those things that comes up, and that employers will need to really keep top of mind. And many employers have been having mental health conversations and supporting their employees, but especially during an election year like this one.
But Emily, you mentioned the debate and having the guidelines around it, and I think that's a really good point. I think a few things that employers need to do that might be able to help manage some of those, the conflict or facilitate the discussions, is just have some policies in place that are related to things like conduct, and making sure that people are being civil and respectful to one another, and training those people managers to be able to deescalate situations, to be able to manage conflict. If it happens.
Of course, you don't want to band political discussions altogether at work, that could actually violate the National Labor Relations Act, which gives those employees the right to be able to engage in discussions about work related conditions. And sometimes, that can include politics, and really just making sure that you're allowing those employees a safe space to converse, and encouraging those employees to listen and just try to understand other people's point of view and find common ground.
So out of curiosity, what other activities have you seen or heard about in the workplace related to politics, aside from the conversations and potentially the heated debates? Have you all had any experiences?
Emily M. Dickens:
Well, look, I'll say here's the good thing. And every year around election time, you'll see on our website resources to help your employees register to vote. So there's no 100% shying away from this. I think there is a part where we can all play a part in this whole civil right to vote. We can all play a part there. So I think making sure that your employees know whether or not election day is a day off or whether you give a free hour or two hours of time so they can vote. I think that's important.
I think it's also important that people, even if you provide local information on where the voting booths are, voting locations are, early voting dates. Because there are states that have early voting. And so, even just sharing that information, and we have something called The Look Ahead, which is our weekly notification to the staff with all the announcements, even if you put in those staff announcements that here are the early voting dates for the state, and here's where you can vote, and here's what you need to vote. Because now some states are requiring IDs, and it's been changing back and forth.
So provide your staff all the tools to engage in the process. I think that's so important. And then even educate them. If you have a policy team inside your organization, educate them on if you are advocating for certain laws and certain policies why. It's important. Are you advocating like we do on behalf of the membership and those things we think will make life a lot easier for our HR professionals as they try to do their work every day and impact the lives and livelihoods of America's workers? If that's the case, it's important. Our staff should know what our policy pillars are.
So if someone asks them, they can know. And even if they may have relationships that can help us or POVs because they're doing the work or what they... And so, even if they hear something from a member, the knowledge of our policy allows them to be able to say, "Well, let me call someone over on the policy team. This might be great. It could be a good example." Where it gets sticky is we've seen the example where someone may have a red and white hat on their desk, and someone may have a black and white hat on their desk. And you may hear an outcry in a blue state about the red and white hat, but in a red state, you hear the outcry about a black and white hat.
So the issue is you want to make sure you have the same rules for everything. Are you allowed to bring political paraphernalia into the office and have it on your desk? That can be something that the organization regulates. Should you be standing around in circles by everyone's desk talking about politics? I think there's a code of conduct at work, and we are here to do a job. I think I told you a story about a colleague of mine who has a very important job at a very important big company. And we're on vacation really, so I really didn't even want to talk about work, but we're on vacation and he's talking about how we've really got to talk about these issues and these political issues. And so, we went and talked to this person to get this person. And I said to him, I said, "Wow, sounds like not a lot of work is getting done."
Now, everybody thought I was being a little cheeky, but honestly, if we're spending-
Amber Clayton:
That's true.
Emily M. Dickens:
... So much of our work hours and our effort on these things that are not related to the bottom line and the productivity of the organization, then why are we at work? And so, I think the organizations have to just be very clear about what is allowed there. Yes, some little offshoot discussion here or there, but how much of your time and energy is going into it? And then let's be clear, the advocacy and the activist part of this, you are all entitled to your own opinion. But does it stop at the door? If it has nothing to do with your day job or what that organization is doing, who are you to come and disrupt that workplace for an issue that may be important to you but not important to your colleagues, nor important to the work that you're being paid to do every day?
And so, I think we've seen a lot of these on-campus advocates lately. We've seen a lot of things on campus. Those are students, and that's a whole different thing. But what we want to say to those students as they're entering the workplace, while some level of activism may be accepted, depending on your employer, that you don't come to work to be an activist, but it is incumbent upon the employers to get ahead of this now. It's not like it's not out here in front of your face.
And so, be very clear as we talk about how culture is so important in organizations, what type of culture this is. Is this a culture where we do want to have these discussions and these debates, and we love doing that? Or is this a culture where we want you to be here, and we want 90% of your focus here to be on work? And maybe 5%, we know you got to focus on what's going on at home because you may get a call from your child's school or something like that. And maybe 5% on I got to run out real quick and pick my car up from the shop.
There are all these other things, but we really don't have room for this, especially if it's going to cause managers to have to monitor behavior between colleagues because of these disagreements. I'd rather monitor behavior between colleagues because X believes this will get us to the road to productivity, and Y believes this, and the two of them are trying to figure out how they can collaborate, because that, in the end, is why you're in the workplace.
Amber Clayton:
I absolutely agree. I think there's a line between bringing your whole selves to work, but then also making sure that it's not negatively impacting your job performance or the business and what you're there to do. And so, I think it's a really good point.
And you also mentioned about the voting. I appreciate you bringing that up. There are varying states and localities that have laws for employers around the time off that they can give to their, or they have to give to their employees to be able to vote. So, if you don't already, employers should really have those in their policies and practices and communicate those to the employees so that they know what they'll be paid for and how many hours, and when. Sometimes it's two hours before the voting polls open or two hours after. The employers or employees need to know, otherwise you're just going to get a lot of questions.
Or maybe they think they can't get off to go on vote, and that would be a terrible thing. So I think that's really important. And as you said, consistency, that's important as far as your practices. Obviously, you're not going to tell one person that they can not wear a button, and another one gets to wear a button that has some type of a political message or political party on it. So while political beliefs are not protected per se under federal law, there are states and localities that do have discrimination laws that protect people based on their political beliefs. And again, that's something that employers need to know.
So yeah, the other thing I should mention too is there are state laws about off-duty conduct laws. So if you have employees who are, I know... Emily's like, "Oh no."
Emily M. Dickens:
You're thinking about the bird watcher guy, right? You remember getting out in Central Park?
Amber Clayton:
I know, I know. Here's the thing. There are [inaudible 00:35:16] off-duty conduct laws that will protect employees from their lawful off-duty conduct. Meaning, if they're doing something, they're going to protest. Employers may not have a right to do anything about that, unless they're doing something unlawful or unless they're doing something that could impact the business.
Let's say I've got my T-shirt on that says SHRM. I'm at a political protests that has negative implications for sure. And there are rules around that. And I know many employers put in policies about not wearing logo shirts while they're out or in their uniform, while they're out and not on duty or at the office or at the work sites. So thank you for bringing this up. I appreciate that.
Emily M. Dickens:
And I'll just say one resource we do do, the policy team does an excellent job of pulling together as much data as we can for each state on what your early voting, whether it's a state that has early voting, what the dates are. And so, the team is working on that, and likely to have that for everyone as we move closer into the general election.
Amber Clayton:
That's great. That's great.
Well, one of the things that I wanted to cover in this episode is SHRM's position when it comes to politics. You both mentioned the policy, not politics. And I've heard, and I've seen feedback from people wondering why do we take this position on a topic. Or they might say, "Why does it seem like this article leans to one political party over another?" And I thought this would be a good opportunity, Emily, while we have you here to talk about SHRM's position when it comes to politics.
Emily M. Dickens:
Whoa, of course, you hit me with that one.
Amber Clayton:
Oh, I'm sorry.
Emily M. Dickens:
No, it's all right. And I love that Derrick knows about... So look, our job is done internally because we do, our staff, they're our internal stakeholders. We want to make clear to them why this is so important. Look, there were so many people on so many sides of an issue. And ultimately, when you think about 340,000 members, is what we have now. And you think about the millions of households we impact through this membership in SHRM, we want to find solutions that work for the most people. And you don't find those solutions by isolating yourself on one side here or one side here. We really believe in the power to convene. When you've got that many members, you've got a power to convene. People are going to want to come talk to the table.
I just left an amazing luncheon with the Congressional Management Foundation and they have a democracy awards program. And one of the awards focuses on life in the workplace. And SHRM has been a supporter of that award. And in September, will announce the winner. But being in that room today with Republicans and Democrats who were all talking about important things like constituent services, there's an award for that. There's an award for innovation, all of the good things you don't hear about. And all of these groups, all these elected officials are in the room trying to hear about the best practices of the other offices and wanting to execute upon that in their workplaces as well.
So the workplace experience is important to everyone, even elected officials who each run their own little business. If you think about it, especially in Congress, they run their office, their benefits, all of those are selected by the elected official in that office. So it's just critically important that we find the best solution for the most people. And where does that put you when you focus on good policy? So I'm not focusing on a ballot, I'm not focusing on an individual, I'm focusing on policy that works for the most people and will ultimately benefit our thousands of human resources professionals every day who are committed to making sure that you have a good workplace, a great workplace for a better world, just like we believe. And so, it is critical for us to stay in the middle.
Now, is that a nice place to be? No. Because they're like, "Oh, you are the friend that won't pick slides." Or they think about, "Oh, you're the friend who I always can trust to tell me the truth." So when I think you're going a little bit over the edge, I'm that friend that'll say, "Look, you need to come back this way. We're going to over this edge." I'm that friend that says, "You move it here." And I'm also going to be honest with you to say that we're all going to leave the room disappointed because we all have our own agenda. We all have the things we want, but ultimately, we're going to leave with a solution, which is the problem we're all seeing right now with Congress and other elected bodies.
And I know as Americans, the sun rises and sets on us, but there are 70 elections this year. This week alone, we are talking about India, South Africa, Mexico, and the United States in terms of major elections. And so, it's important that we just really think about the policy, not just the people who are going to be executing on it and what their personal beliefs are and things. Talk about policy that works for the most people. And if that policy is not a good policy, let's figure out how we can get together and do it better. And that's why we spend a lot of time talking about the policy.
Will we always agree with every member of SHRM, and will they always agree with us? No. We absolutely understand that, but know that our hearts are in the right place. And I say that seriously, that for us it's about doing the right thing and trying to find the solution that works for the most people.
Amber Clayton:
And thank you very much for that. And I hope we have listeners that understand we're nonpartisan. We're going to work with any administration because it is about the policy, not the politics. And I hope that people can see that because there are a lot of people that work for our organization who are trying to do what we can do to make better workplaces, as you said, and a better world.
And everyone here has differences of opinions when it comes to political party affiliations and political beliefs. But we still are doing the work. And the work is all about how do we make an impact on the world of work, workers in the workplace?
Emily M. Dickens:
We do. And again, I harken back to this luncheon today. I was honored to sit next to Senator Chuck Grassley. So I'm sitting next to a very senior, a Senator, Republican, and then I look over, Ayanna Pressley is in the room. All right. And so you all may know she's part of the squad. She's Massachusetts. And then I look over Lucy McBath out of Georgia, Don Bacon, who is just one of the most so interesting to work with in the Republican Main Street partnership.
And so, I felt really proud that I'm in this room. These people know who SHRM is. They know us for different parts of our policy. So some of them are working with us on policy pillar A, and someone else is working with us on policy pillar B, just very proud that I could sit there comfortably and have discussions with people on both sides of the aisle about our good work.
Amber Clayton:
Absolutely. And we were talking about this Emily. We have an inclusion conference that's coming up. And it just so happens to be scheduled the same week as... This was not planned, but the same week as election day.
So, I don't know if you could say or not, what can attendees expect? Obviously, if they're going to be joining us, which we hope that they do, that maybe they can do some early voting.
Emily M. Dickens:
Yes.
Amber Clayton:
Especially if they're not going to be in the state where they reside. But any tidbits that you could share with the listeners about our inclusion conference?
Emily M. Dickens:
So I will tell you, I was disappointed this morning to learn that one of the things we wanted to do, we are not going to be able to do.
Amber Clayton:
Oh. Okay.
Emily M. Dickens:
But it makes sense. We were hoping to get some sitting governors to come in there from both sides of the aisle. But look, they need to be in their states on that day. God forbid something happens with the machines or something, and they're in Colorado with us, so I get it. But we always have a plan B. So we're working on something else. What I will say is we're not going to shy away from it. And just think about it. Though election day, you're right, is the date that the conference starts. I'm going to harken back to what I said earlier. The day after the election, we'll all be together too. And that's going to be a time where the HR professionals and the CDOs and the IND professionals in the room are going to need guidance about what happens when you go home.
And I'm going to tell you, it's in stages. Now, having seen this before, it's what happens the day after the election, and then maybe the week after the election. But then there is now this count up to the inauguration. And so, there are all of these other issues you have to think about. And that's why it's important to have the guidelines out in advance and tell people what the expected behavior is. But I think I shared this with you. If you had told me that two elections ago people would call into work sick the following day, I'd laugh at you. I've been doing this for years. I do this for a living, so I obviously care about it, but I was like, "I don't care that much." But clearly there is something that people are impacted and feeling at a level over the last, almost half a decade that they didn't feel before.
And so as empathetic leaders. And we talk about this a lot at SHRM, the importance of empathy. Let's already say we need to be empathetic that someone who voted for the loser is going to be upset in some way. Let's give people a little grace, but that doesn't give them carte blanche to come to work next day and make everybody else's life difficult and toxic. So let's be clear. But we are, as leaders, understanding we got to give grace because people are feeling this election. But then I would also say it is the period thereafter because as people get closer to that day, it's that count up to the day where this is going to be real and the person will be sworn in, then there's a different level of angst that people will have to deal with.
So one of the things we want to make sure we do on that day after is acknowledge people's feelings, but then make sure we give them the tools to continue their work when they get back. And that means step by step. People are looking, especially at this conference, people are always looking for tactics and tools. We can have great speakers who inspire you, but importantly, they want to go back to their offices with a list of things they can actually execute upon on when they get there. And that's going to be one of our number one goals.
Amber Clayton:
Yes, I agree with you. Our members love best practices. They love what are the top tips, tricks of doing things. What can we do as soon as we go back to the offices or go back to the work site? So yes, I do agree with you there.
Emily M. Dickens:
And so going back to Derrick and his research, I know we working on Civility Index part two. Derrick, I've heard about that today. And so, my hope is-
Derrick Scheetz:
That's right.
Emily M. Dickens:
That what we'll also be doing that day is that Derrick's hard work will pay off because we'll have some additional data on better ways to even be civil in the workplace. It's going to require lots of civility during that period. And so I can't thank Derrick and the team enough for all the hard work they've been doing here.
Derrick Scheetz:
Well, thank you very much for that, Emily. And I just wanted to say, yeah, the data is coming in as we speak, literally, for the next phase of Civility Index. So very excited to see what's there, turn that around. I know we dove a lot deeper into certain topics, and we really want to develop that much deeper and well understanding of all things civility and how it relates to work and outside of work as well.
And also, when you were mentioning around inclusion that the conference taking place over on election day, but then also the day after election day, I found that very symbolic around our involvement with this entire civility campaign and everything related to it where we're going to look back on election day and then after that, everything up to Inauguration Day and everything beyond [inaudible 00:47:08] we've been talking about these topics since the beginning of 2004 and even earlier. And we've been here assessing it, providing those best practices, like you mentioned Amber. We've been doing that the entire duration.
And so, we've been evaluating, measuring, gathering data, and ultimately, learning about the best ways to approach this. And I hope that the end of the campaign will ultimately let us turn around and share our findings and what we've learned with everyone in our entire network of the 340, I believe you mentioned, Emily, the number of members that we have,
Amber Clayton:
345?
Derrick Scheetz:
The millions of households that they impact. So definitely a major impact that we have here. And I hope that we can certainly make a difference in all ways.
Amber Clayton:
Thank you. And before we get to the last thoughts, because we're going to wrap this up here shortly. Emily, could you tell the listeners about the advocacy team? Because something that I've learned is many people don't know what to do or how to be an advocate. Could you tell them about our advocacy team?
Emily M. Dickens:
Oh, wow. So thank you for the free commercial.
Amber Clayton:
I know. I have to.
Emily M. Dickens:
So our A team, I'm so proud, we're about almost 30,000 members now. It's not bad. I'd love to have all 340,000. So it literally is, you can be as engaged as you want to be. There's no cost. We want you just to sign up. We want you to leverage your voice, leverage your fingers, leverage your networks to help us when we're advocating on particular issues. And even though we talk a lot about what's going on up here in DC, and I think I shared with you earlier, I'm in our DC office today, and what happens back home impacts your life just more directly. And people underestimate their networks and how they have connections to elected officials who they can help educate about the key issues impacting the world of work.
And we give you all the information you need, all the resources we share, Derrick's data and data of his colleagues that are also on our data and insights teams. And we tell you about our policy pillars. We give you all that content, and we ask you to leverage your voice, your fingers, and your networks to contact elected officials in your state. And to be clear, not just those who come up to Washington to work, the ones that are in your state capitals at your state houses who are doing the work. Because many of those people one day end up here in DC. You wouldn't believe the bunch people who are one day in your state house. And I actually had lunch with two of them. Were in that lunch. I'm sitting across from Congressman Don Davis, who had been, I remembered in the state legislature in North Carolina, and now is representing a district there.
So don't underestimate where are these people who you know just as a person, whose kid goes to the same school as your child, and you see them in the park and go lane, and you've got this nice friendly relationship. Don't underestimate the power of you just stopping by and say, "Hey, I work for SHRM. Do you know what that is? And you should know in the States what SHRM is and what SHRM can do and how SHRM can support you in the work that you're doing." So that's what I want you to do. For those people who don't want to talk, I've got my introverts. Send a text. You will see a campaign. We'll have a campaign, and we'll say phone to action or text to action. Just send a text. We'll have the letter drafted for you, and all you got to is send a text or send a letter.
One of our board members, Paula Harvey, who is a former MAC member, a huge SHRM volunteer. Paula will send a letter in a minute. And I love it because she gets responses. And it may be the form letter, but she'll send me, and she'll say, "Look what I got." I love seeing that. And so, even if you don't want to be someone who is going to the local office and saying, "Hey, this is the district office for this member of Congress. I'm a member in your district. I want to tell you about SHRM," even if you're not that person, but you can send a text, you can send a letter, you could really give us content and tell us what your world is like because a piece of legislation has been passed or policy has been passed. That's so important.
And so, I'm passionate about it, I guess you can tell. But you are our best voices, not me. Let's be clear. I'm here to strategize and figure out where we can get in. But you, third party voices, the voices of the people who are living in every day are the best voices to do our work, and they're the voices that the members and elected officials want to hear from. And so, we want you to use your voice to help create better workplaces for a better world.
Amber Clayton:
I almost feel like we need to end it there, unless you've got two other thoughts. That was good. Any other thoughts for our listeners? We could wrap it up right at that last sentence, Emily.
Emily M. Dickens:
Well, thanks for having us. This was cool. And Derrick, it was nice to spend time with you spend. And because we use all his work, his hard work is what we leverage on the hill and in the state houses. So thank you Amber, and thanks to the team that makes this happen in the background. Thank you all so much. This was really nice.
Amber Clayton:
Well, thank you. We really appreciate you both being on the show today.
And with that, we've come to the end of our show. For our listeners who are members of SHRM, you could find resources specific to this topic on shrm.org. You could also contact SHRM's Knowledge Center and ask one of our advisors for assistance at shrm.org/hrhelp. Thank you again, Emily and Derrick for taking part in this episode.
Intro/Outro:
This episode is sponsored by Fidelity Workplace. Fidelity Workplace helps improve employee well-being with benefits that support better decisions about finances, retirement and health. Working with employers and their advisors, Fidelity helps build successful benefits programs for diverse needs.
See more at fidelityworkplace.com. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC, member of NYSE, Securities Investor Protection Corporation 900 Salem Street, Smithfield, Rhode Island 02917.