Curiosity might be the spark your workplace is missing — the key to unlocking innovation, engagement, and even retention. Diane Hamilton, Ph.D., behavioral expert and creator of the Curiosity Code Index, joins host Monique Akanbi to dig into what blocks curiosity at work, how HR can turn it into a culture-shaping advantage, and why curiosity might just be the competency of the future. Expect fresh insights on how to fuel curiosity on your team and keep it alive, even when dealing with fear, assumptions, or burnout. This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires Sept. 1, 2026. Subscribe to Honest HR to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz --- Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
Curiosity might be the spark your workplace is missing — the key to unlocking innovation, engagement, and even retention. Diane Hamilton, Ph.D., behavioral expert and creator of the Curiosity Code Index, joins host Monique Akanbi to dig into what blocks curiosity at work, how HR can turn it into a culture-shaping advantage, and why curiosity might just be the competency of the future. Expect fresh insights on how to fuel curiosity on your team and keep it alive, even when dealing with fear, assumptions, or burnout.
This podcast is approved for .5 PDCs toward SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP recertification. Listen to the complete episode to get your activity ID at the end. ID expires Sept. 1, 2026.
Subscribe to Honest HR to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz
---
Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
[00:00:00] Monique Akanbi: Welcome to Honest HR, where we turn real issues facing today's HR teams into honest conversations with actionable insights. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Monique Akanbi. What if the biggest thing holding your HR team back isn't a lack of skill, but a lack of curiosity. Today, we're exploring the power of curiosity in the workplace.
What fuels it, what holds it back, and why it might be the missing piece in your HR culture and strategy. Joining us is Dr. Diane Hamilton, behavioral expert and creator of the Curiosity Code Index, an assessment that identifies the factors that block Curiosity at work. Welcome to Honest HR, Dr. Hamilton.
[00:00:57] Diane Hamilton: Well, I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me, Monique. I'm just so, passionate about Curiosity. I think this is gonna be a great show.
[00:01:07] Monique Akanbi: At SHRM, one of our guiding principles is being smart and curious, asking the right questions, listening with intention and striving to understand before jumping to conclusions.
Diane, I imagine that resonates with your work. So how did Curiosity first land on your radar as something worth exploring? And why is curiosity such a critical, yet overlooked driver of organizational success?
[00:01:37] Diane Hamilton: Well, that's such a great question. And you know, it's so interesting that I ended up writing, about curiosity.
'cause I never really thought about doing that. I had written my dissertation on emotional intelligence, so I was very interested in behavioral issues. But it was when I had my radio show that I started to interview all these really interesting people. I mean. Everybody from billionaires to Daniel Goldman or you name whoever, was popular in any kind of business setting.
I interviewed them and I started to notice that they had this thing in common. They were super curious and that's what made them successful. I also teach online and I teach a lot of different students who seemed to want me to give them the fish instead of teach them to fish. And I saw a big difference and I thought, well, the big difference really was.
They were cur, they were needing to develop their curiosity. So as I started to write a book on curiosity, 'cause I wanted to fix this situation, I got about halfway through it and I realized. Well, this is just gonna be a book on curiosity. I wanna fix it. I wanna solve this problem. So I realized I needed to create an assessment to do that.
And, that wasn't out there. I didn't realize that, that no one had done that, like what they'd done with emotional intelligence. And when I had. Interviewed, Daniel Goldman, we talked about this and he was saying, you know, curiosity is the competency of the future and we need this. It's such a critical, yet, as you mentioned, overlooked driver of organizational success.
So I set out to do that. I hired a bunch of people to, to work on this, and they just kept giving me the same old assessment that was out there. It would just tell you if you were. Curious or not like what your levels were and that didn't really tell me what was stopping it. So I worked on this for many years and finally.
Did it on my own. I had to get, take my own advice, get curious, and start, figuring out the, fun statistics stuff that goes behind all of that. And I created my, my, curiosity code index that you mentioned. And it's so important because curiosity, I, mean, as I studied this, I, recognized that curiosity was the spark to everything organizations were trying to fix, innovation, engagement, motivation, you name it, it all came back to that.
[00:03:53] Monique Akanbi: So I think about when I practiced HR and oftentimes for me, I always led with curiosity. I don't know if it was just me being nosy, but I always, for me, I always wondered what made people, like, what was the driver of, people. And I just would look at certain things, either if someone said or did, and I just really wanted to get to the root cause of it.
Right? So that made love that me curious. but oftentimes there's this. Find balance in the workplace around curiosity and challenging, right? Because sometimes being curious can be perceived as challenging. If workplaces say that they want to value curiosity, what does that look like in practice?
[00:04:37] Diane Hamilton: You know, it's really interesting 'cause I've worked with so many big names like Verizon or Novartis or you name 'em, and they all do it in a different way.
Novartis, well let's start with Verizon. Verizon sent me to New York and we created these videos where they had me talk a little bit about. Curiosity and the value of it, but then they showcase their employees who had utilized curiosity to become super successful within the company. And I remember one of the women that came on to say how well she did in the company came from Mexico, where the culture wasn't really pro women becoming in leadership positions.
And she was hesitant to take that role. So she, they, she talked about how she told her. Leader at the time that she didn't feel comfortable doing it. And then they, really helped walk her through the value of curiosity and how she could do it. And they were gonna be there to support her. So they would take these videos and play 'em in their onboarding sessions and they played 'em throughout their stores and they did all this to showcase.
This is what we want. We want curious people, and we're, not just saying it as something in a blurb somewhere that we care about curiosity. This is, the culture of the company. I mentioned Novartis. They're another big company I've worked with that they, would, did it differently. They would pay, for a hundred hours a year of educational credits for its students can, I mean, their employees could take.
Online or whatever they wanted to do. They even had curiosity month where they'd have hundreds of people like me come in and speak, and then their, employees could pick what they wanted to learn and what they wanted to do, and they'd have employees actually give talks about things they were passionate about, because there's no better way to learn something than.
To teach it, right? So they would learn and then they would share, and there were other people would learn. So in each organization I, I mean whether it was LinkedIn, doesn't matter who I worked with, they did it in a slightly different way. But the most important thing was that leaders emulated what they wanted to see and they weren't afraid to ask questions themselves.
[00:06:41] Monique Akanbi: Right. and I think about, in the value of curiosity and how that unlocks, you know, you just said it, you know, it unlocks innovation, right? It really, opens that door of exploration to maybe some things that we may not have thought of, especially, if we are thinking about a new service or a new product or a strategy on how we make our organization better, what role does Curiosity play in helping?
HR build inclusive adaptive teams, especially, during times of change or disruption.
[00:07:15] Diane Hamilton: You know, I had a great conversation with Amy Edmondson about teams and teaming and, she has a, really wonderful Ted talk about how they got the Chilean miners out from under the rock years ago, and how they were all able to work together to do that.
And they utilized curiosity to be collaborative. you, they, had to let their egos go. People's lives were at stake, right? And, they. They had all these people who'd never met each other, had to work together in a situation that was really highly stressful. So we, know that it's, We have to let go of thinking we have all the answers.
When, I've trained companies, teams in the past, I'm sure your audience, you know, of HR professionals have done a lot of disc and emotional intelligence, or Myers Briggs or whatever types of training. We know that when you put people together that are more diverse of background, you know, maybe more introverts with extroverts or you know, intuitives with, you know, the different groups, right?
And you put 'em together. They're, you ask them to build a house outta Legos, they're gonna build a much more interesting house out of Legos than they are if they're all the same. And that was really fascinating to me, though. You have more issues when you have different people on a team in terms of how they get along.
Sometimes you get a much more innovative product, and the more you get this diverse group of people, the more people question each other and go, well, why would, because it's not. Intuitive for them to do something a certain way where it is to somebody else. So there's no better, reason to develop curiosity sometimes than to be collaborative on a, in a team environment because we have to know, well, where did you come up with that idea?
Because a lot of these companies stay, they, their people stay stuck in their cubicle or in their silo or in their, own mind of thinking a certain way. And when we get outside, especially the companies that go to. Outside industries and get ideas. I've seen hospitals go to race car teams to get ideas and, there's just so much more we can learn from being from questioning, and that helps with so much with collaboration and teaming.
[00:09:28] Monique Akanbi: So, Diane, of the four inhibitors you've identified, which are fear, assumptions, technology and environment, how do they typically show up in organizations as it relates to curiosity?
[00:09:41] Diane Hamilton: It was very interesting to study this because I assumed fear was going to be a big one because, you know, people are often afraid of being embarrassed, losing control, looking unorganized, you know, all those kinds of things.
It comes up in that fear of failure often. assumptions was interesting to me because it's really the voice in your head that I'm not gonna be interested in this, or I did this in the past. It wasn't helpful. It's not necessary. And, technology was more about over and under utilization of it. Maybe it does it for you or you're not trained, you're not, you're overwhelmed by it.
And, environment is more about everybody with whom you've ever had interactions. So your educators, your family, your friends, your workers, your peers, your current boss or past boss, everybody.
[00:10:31] Monique Akanbi: So let's unpack each of those inhibitors just a little bit more. and starting with fear. So in HR we see how fear of judgment or failure, or even job loss can shut people down, right?
what are some practical ways HR teams can help reduce fear and create a psychologically safe environment? And not just the theory, but day to day. Well, you know, fear is something that
[00:10:56] Diane Hamilton: you just don't know where it came from. Sometimes it's a past boss. I had a guy I worked for. Yeah, I asked him a question about something he wanted me to do, I'd never done before.
And he said, well, I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that. And I asked him the question. Wow. And what does that tell you? It tells you, don't ask questions or you're, an idiot, or whatever It tells you. It means we don't wanna know if there's a problem. So to reduce fear, we have to model what we wanna see.
And I've worked on, DocuSign's board of advisors and these great. Boards where I've seen some of these leaders who are so good at being humble, they just say, you know, I don't know everything. I hire people who know things. I don't know. We have to model what we wanna see. it's gonna be a big thing right now with ai.
I, I speak to a lot of groups about fear of AI because it's, I used to sell computers in the eighties and everybody freaked out back then thinking they're gonna lose their jobs. You know, that's that, that the internet was taking over and it does. Reduce jobs. It does change jobs, but it creates new jobs and everybody's in the sense of what's gonna happen next.
And it's very challenging. So a lot of it is just giving people time to experiment, to play around, to look at it at one bite at a time instead of like overwhelming. I used to make fun of that kind of thing with my doctoral students. 'cause they had to write these 200 page papers, you know, for their dissertation.
And I said, well, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. At a time. It's just to play with them, you know? It's goofy, but it's true. We have to do little bits of things. We have to give people just a chance to not. Drain from the fire hose. And I think with fear right now, especially with ai, that's one of the ways you have to find out what they fear.
And that's what I work with organizations to do. You know, when they take these, my assessment, they find out is it fear of this that you know, what is it? Because if you don't know what they fear you, you can't just put a big band aidon.
[00:12:56] Monique Akanbi: So the second inhibitor is assumptions and assumptions can kill innovation before it starts, right?
So how can HR help workplaces unlearn the idea of, we've always done it this way, especially in legacy organizations or industries that are resistant to change.
[00:13:15] Diane Hamilton: It's something that comes up a lot in organizations where they don't ask the question of Why have we always done it this way? did we do it in the past and we failed, or did somebody tell us it was gonna be too hard?
Or have we been trained to believe that this is something bad? And you don't know what people have in their heads, assumptions. Sometimes when I'm in front of a group, I'll hold up a thing of water and I'll say, how much does this weigh? People yell out eight ounces or 10 ounces or whatever. And then, I said, well, the truth is it doesn't matter.
It matters how long I hold it. If I hold it for a minute, doesn't bother me. Hold it for an hour. My arm gets tired. Hold it all day, arm gets paralyzed. Assumptions are the same thing. And when we're in the work setting and we assume. We can't do certain things, a certain way because they're gonna shut us down.
I see this a lot with project managers. They, wanna get to the end fast and, you know, they don't want any distractions. But when we have that, we get the Boeing situation where we find out about software issues. We, don't wanna rock the boat. And then, you know, we end up with these horrible outcomes.
And so we have to let people. Recognize, what are they telling themselves? What's in their mind that makes them think that AI is gonna be the bad thing? Or what's in their mind that thinks that they can't ask a question because, they're gonna get people off track. So just like fear, there's all these other subfactors of assumptions of what we're telling ourselves.
[00:14:53] Monique Akanbi: So Dr. Hamilton, recent SHRM research explores how technology, is reshaping HR roles, and found that the demand for tech skills has increased 23%, from 2023. And while technology streamlines our work, sometimes it also can limit opportunities for deeper thinking and next. so how can HR professionals, leverage tools like AI and automation without letting them dull those critical thinking skills and stay curious.
[00:15:28] Diane Hamilton: Such an important area of, research actually, along with your SHRM research, MIT did some research showing that, people who were really ahead of their time and were great critical thinkers, didn't grow that much if they used ai. But the people who weren't that great of critical thinkers. Actually got better.
And they looked at that and they wanted to see why. And a lot of it was because you just started to rely on it so much that, that they didn't grow much more because they, kind of thought, well, you know, it's doing what I know it can do. Where if you weren't really great at AI and knowing all these things, you started to learn a little bit more.
So we have to learn that technology. In terms of curiosity is about over and under utilization of it. We need to have high tech days and low tech days. We need to learn the foundation behind the technology so we know why it works. We have to know, like with ai, how to create the prompts that give you the best data and why that works.
That way if you just totally rely on what it spits out, you're gonna get. Sadlydisappointed because a lot of the times it gives you just what it thinks you wanna hear. So if you're not critically thinking about your output that you're getting from technology, you might just go down a rabbit hole that doesn't even, isn't even real.
It's just some kind of a hallucination that technology gives you. So this is a time where we have to teach people. The, basics behind how the technology works, as well as once they get that they understand how to use it to its fullest. You can't have one without the other. Either way, you're gonna have issues, and that's why this curiosity development's so critical.
[00:17:17] Monique Akanbi: As we're talking, all I could think about as, children, we are taught to be curious and what popped in my mind was one of my favorite books. Curious George, right? Yeah. Right. But then we become adults and we lose the very foundation of really what will help us, even as adults and, our professional lives as well, is how do we.
You know, really leverage and capitalize on some of like the creativity and the curiosity that we were taught when we were younger in the workplace. what are some practical ways HR teams can really shape an environment where curiosity is a part of their day-to-day culture and not just, a buzz word.
[00:17:58] Diane Hamilton: You know, environment is about a lot of the things you said when you're a kid, your educators, your family, your friends, your workers, your peers. As you grow older, we know that kids get super curious where they're asking hundreds of questions a day, and that they hit about age five, and then it starts to really diminish.
It's very similar to what we see with creativity and so. That was really fascinating to me because what can you do about your teachers not asking you questions now or your boss saying something snarky to you a long time ago, or things that have now impacted your assumptions and your fear and all these other things, but you can't find out what they were, what these issues were so that you can develop this environment that doesn't further.
You know, cause more issues. So in the workplace, a lot of it is creating safe atmospheres where people can suggest ideas. we know Google had their, 20% time rule where they can work on passion projects and all these things. We know all these companies have done these amazing things to, ensure that people feel safe.
I, I know in different. Realms. They, come up with little packets of information sometimes to give people to say, here's your approval for an idea. You don't have to get it formally approved. Here's a credit card, here's a whatever that's got a certain amount of money on it. And it creates the, safety, where they can come up with these ideas, that without having to go through formal.
Networks where people might say no. So we, a lot of it is how we model it. A lot of it is recognizing what past experiences have done to people to make them shut down. And so that's the kind of thing that they find out. Again, there's different sub categories under environment. Just as with the other factors of fate, FATE, that once you recognize, oh, I didn't do this this way because my family always wanted me to.
To do this. I, think it's really fascinating to see the aha moments I see in people's faces when they go, oh, that's why I don't do that. I used to like to do that. And so when you see that, it opens up new, realms for them.
[00:20:14] Monique Akanbi: Yeah. What advice would you give HR professionals, who want to bring more curiosity into their company, but their leadership isn't really on board?
how would you advise them to address that or, take on that challenge?
[00:20:30] Diane Hamilton: There's so many people who ask me about how do you develop curiosity if leaders aren't on board? And it's, to be honest with you, you had to think of curiosity, like emotional intelligence that the people who need it probably aren't going out and buying the books on it.
That's the problem. Right. And we want leaders to recognize, but you know, back to Daniel Goldman when I talked to him. I think the reason emotional intelligence got to be where people were reading about it was he made it accessible, and popularized it for the business world. So you, had to be on board.
And when I started to write about, curiosity, I started, I, did a Google search set up to let me know when people had written about it. So I. Learn more and people weren't really writing about it at the time. And now I, hope, I love to think it was based on my books on curiosity, but who knows what the reason is?
There's more, and more people writing about curiosity now, and so. These leaders have to start to see that they need to get on board just like they did with emotional intelligence, that this is a critical competency, but for not all of 'em do. The ones who contact me to come speak are usually the ones who get it and they know they need to build this, culture.
But for the companies that don't get it, a lot of these leaders are gonna be on their way out. To be honest with you, they probably won't make it very long and, especially with AI and everything right now, but you can make small. CH movements from the bottom up. If you can get other people on board and if you do any kind of, Documentation to show your leader, Hey look, we were curious about this. And look at the financial impact it made. 'cause a lot of leaders wanna see financial quantitative information and that's, I did a research study recently where I interviewed 51. C-suite executives in, in all different levels in all companies throughout the United States.
And I asked them for this because if you look on the internet, there isn't data out there for these leaders who need that data. And what I asked them is, you know, how much did you save from these curiosity based initiatives? And. Over 80% of the small and medium companies saved over a hundred thousand a year.
I didn't ask 'em if they saved more, but I wish I would've. Now I wanna know how much, and, over a hundred percent of the large companies saved over a million. So I don't know how much more on that one either, but it was consistent. Eight CHROs, you know, CEOs, COOs, every c you know, group. I was in this, and so it was, they were all very positive about this, so I was really pleasantly surprised to see more of an openness to this.
[00:23:10] Monique Akanbi: Yeah, something we're starting to see. Over the past few years now, has been, burnout, and there is a critical issue surrounding employee burnout. how do HR professionals create a culture of curiosity when so many p employees are just trying to make it through the day?
[00:23:32] Diane Hamilton: Yep. I hear a lot of that.
And you know what, it's really interesting 'cause I was in a job for, I worked for a company for nearly 20 years and 15 years of, it was in a job. I really wasn't well aligned to do and I didn't love it. I loved working for the company. I dreaded Mondays, to be honest with you. And now I just look forward to Monday so much because I'm doing what I love to do.
And a lot of it is that people are maybe not perfectly aligned to their, passions, and we don't know that 'cause we haven't asked them what they like. We haven't had them go throughout the company and try different things. We d we haven't explored their true curiosity and that leads to this disengagement issue.
I interviewed a guy named Dr. Olin Ode Covin, he's, since passed, but he was the most interesting guy. He was the CEO of Peregrine, which it was aeducation company. And he would go up to people in meetings or wherever he would, you know, mentions or he'd talk to people and he'd, find something about them and he'd go, well, you know, I, wanna hire you.
And they'd say for, well, okay, what's the job? He goes, I don't know yet. And he would just create a job after. Because he knew that they were great. He couldn't tell what they would be great at. And I, obviously, companies can't all do this, but he, it was very successful for him because he would bring them back and let them explore different areas of the company and, align.
Tasks and skill based on their skills. Now you might say, okay, well not any, but nobody's gonna wanna do the paperwork or nobody's gonna, you know, not everybody loves every skill, right? But I love paperwork and no one else did in that job. And you know, there's gonna be people who love to do the things you think no one's gonna love to do.
So you have to kind of find out what are those things, and we're all gonna have to do some stuff. That we don't love, but if we can find out, maybe this person really needs to do more of this kind of thing and this person needs to do more of that kind of thing, and we'll find out more, I think as AI comes along, and then we can train them to build those skills.
[00:25:34] Monique Akanbi: So what I gather from that is even when employees, are burnt out or at the point of burnout, and as HR professionals, we have to model curiosity, just to get them to a place beyond burnout because maybe they're, in a place or a position. We, It is just not their place to thrive. Right. It's not their area to thrive.
And so we have to model curiosity to get them to a place of curiosity. Yes.
[00:26:04] Diane Hamilton: Well, there's that. And also to ask them more about what would they be Yeah. More passionate doing. And, just have more of a, dialogue of fi finding out more so that we can be empathetic to their needs. And I think that, you know, there's no better way to build empathy than through developing curiosity.
Yes.
[00:26:24] Monique Akanbi: So have you seen any standout examples of organizations or teams that truly embraced curiosity and saw meaningful, results because of it?
[00:26:34] Diane Hamilton: Oh, there's just so many. I mentioned some that I've worked with that have had huge results. Novartis really moved the engagement needle, for example. you know, whether I've worked with LinkedIn or EO or US Bank, I mean, there's just so many companies.
We, Google of course created Gmail because of it. I think Ben and Jerry's is an interesting example because. You don't think of them as an innovative company 'cause they make ice cream. I mean, that doesn't sound like it, but they, one of their most successful flavors came from just a suggestion board.
I mean, you've had chocolate chip cookie dough, ice cream, I assume. I mean, I have, yes. I love it. And that is just a suggestion board that they had and it's, you know, one of the most successful thing they did. They're also innovative in the fact that they retire flavors that don't work anymore. So a lot of companies hold on to products that.
Past their due date. People don't want it anymore, but they, actually give 'em a funeral. If you go on their website, they have a little headstones. And so, you know, this flavor was popular from this year to that year. And I think that knowing when to look for ideas from your, employees for potential products is, really critical.
And also knowing when to. Retire things that are no longer the good thing. That's why we have the Kodaks and the Blockbusters, of the world because they didn't want to give up on what worked, you know, in the past. And if we don't continue to look at what's working, why do we need to keep going this way?
And why should we maybe think of something else? That's, where we can learn from these other companies.
[00:28:08] Monique Akanbi: Yeah. Awesome. Well, one last question. any piece of advice or final words you would like to give our audience, as we continue to embrace curiosity but also, turn our organizational culture into a place of curiosity?
[00:28:28] Diane Hamilton: I think that just the fact that, your audience is watching or listening to this right now is that they, are interested, they are somewhat curious, and they wanna know how this can benefit them, which is a huge, first step I think, knowing what inhibits your curiosity. Is critical. 'causeyou can't just say you need to be more curious because you don't know why you're not curious.
So, I, that's what I work with companies to do and I think that when companies start with recognizing, okay, here's our va, here's where our curiosity level is, and then they compare that with. Their engagement, their innovation, all the things they're trying to fix, and then they find out what is inhibiting their curiosity in their people.
Then they can work on those things and remeasure again, all those levels, and that's what a, the companies like I mentioned before, have done and they've really moved the needle because you have to realize that curiosity ties into the bottom line of productivity and the sooner you work. On that, on developing curiosity.
The more empathetic people are, the more emotionally intelligent they are, more innovative, productive, and that's why it's so critical to find out now.
[00:29:43] Monique Akanbi: Well, Dr. Hamilton, thank you so much for sharing your deep insights, and expertise around curiosity with our audience.
[00:29:51] Diane Hamilton: Thank you for having me. This has been very, enlightening and I love how curious you are.
[00:29:58] Monique Akanbi: Well, hopefully our audience will stay curious as well. that will be it for this episode. We hope to see you next time. Hello, friends. We hope this week's episode gave you the candid tips and insights you need to keep growing and thriving in your career. Honest. HR is part of HR Daily, the content series from SHRM.
That delivers a daily newsletter directly to your inbox filled with all the latest HR news and research. Sign up at SHRM dot org slash HR daily. Plus follow SHRM on social media for even more clips and stories like share and add to the comments because real change starts with real talk.
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