Learn from a retired SWAT negotiator how to handle workplace crises and difficult conversations as an HR professional. Scott Tillema, keynote speaker and corporate trainer at The Negotiations Collective, goes over the four principles of crisis negotiation with host Monique Akanbi, as well as quick decision-making strategies for high-stakes and sometimes emotionally charged situations. Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz --- Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
Learn from a retired SWAT negotiator how to handle workplace crises and difficult conversations as an HR professional. Scott Tillema, keynote speaker and corporate trainer at The Negotiations Collective, goes over the four principles of crisis negotiation with host Monique Akanbi, as well as quick decision-making strategies for high-stakes and sometimes emotionally charged situations.
Subscribe to HR Daily to get the latest episodes, expert insights, and additional resources delivered straight to your inbox: https://shrm.co/voegyz
---
Explore SHRM’s all-new flagships. Content curated by experts. Created for you weekly. Each content journey features engaging podcasts, video, articles, and groundbreaking newsletters tailored to meet your unique needs in your organization and career. Learn More: https://shrm.co/coy63r
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[00:00:00] Monique Akanbi: Welcome to Honest HR. I'm your host, Monique Akanbi. HR professionals are frequently tasked with navigating high pressure situations, helping to bring resolve to conflict, calm tensions, and encourage collaboration. And being able to guide contentious conversations toward positive outcomes is a critical skill no HR Pro should be without.
So joining us today to share HR tips and techniques for moving from crisis to resolution is my new friend Scott Tillema, a partner and co-founder with Negotiations Collective. Welcome to Honest HR Scott.
[00:00:51] Scott Tillema: Hello, Monique. Great to be with you and your audience. Excited to be on Honest HR. We are going to have a great chat here today.
[00:00:59] Monique Akanbi: I am looking forward to it, especially regarding a topic that I. Every HR professional has to deal with in some form or fashion is something that we can't avoid. but for starters, could you tell us, Scott, a little bit about your background and the types of conflict and crisis you specialized over in over the years?
[00:01:19] Scott Tillema: Yeah, thank you. So I come from a different world. Than hr. I am the true outsider, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been having difficult conversations. For 20 years, I worked in local law enforcement outside of Chicago. I specialized as a SWAT hostage and crisis negotiator. So for many years I worked on a regional SWAT team serving many cities across the Chicago region.
Having tough conversations with emotional people in really consequential times, and I'm excited to now be a partner at Negotiations Collective where we teach these same skills, these same techniques that I've used in life or death conversations so that professionals can use these in their difficult conversations.
[00:02:03] Monique Akanbi: Wow. Now I'm intrigued. So I know I have a few questions for our audience today, but I'm really interested around your experience around swap negotiations and honestly in comparison, like different situations, but some I. Some of the same skills that would be needed, for an HR professional, in some of those high, tension, situations.
So what are the first steps HR Pros should take when a high stakes conflict or a crisis arise
[00:02:34] Scott Tillema: for? For sure. And I think that in any negotiation, I will start off by asking those involved to identify what. Is my goal. What do I want to have happen here? Because when crisis hits, we're going to start to feel that overwhelmed feeling where we're not quite sure what to do, but we have to be busy doing something and we feel better if we're doing some work or getting something done.
And sometimes it might benefit all of us just to step back and say, what do I need to have happen here? Because what might be important right in this moment might not be serving the greater need. And it's tough to think creatively. It's tough to think or really thoughtfully when that pressure's on, when there's time pressure, when there's emotion, when there's, a lot of people giving input.
So let's start with a moment of clarity and say, what is my goal here? What do we really need to accomplish? In this conversation, in this interaction or in, this, in, this task that we're working on.
[00:03:34] Monique Akanbi: So what you're saying is first step is identify what is my goal? Like, what is it that I want to achieve in this situation before my emotions and everything else take over?
Sounds, sounds. About right and,
[00:03:48] Scott Tillema: and emotions are gonna take over. And that's next. We're gonna get into that next around the concept of managing ourselves first. This is so critical. If I am a negotiator in a stressful situation, I want to influence somebody who might be threatening violence or might be threatening another person or threatening themselves.
How can I influence them? How can I lead the conversation if I myself am out of control? So I usually begin. My talks, I do a lot of keynoting talks for HR groups. I usually begin with the concept of how are we managing ourselves because we are not gonna be effective in leading others if we're not leading ourselves first.
[00:04:28] Monique Akanbi: You're absolutely correct. So with your background as a SWAT negotiator and crisis communications expert, what are some of those proven methods that you may have used that would help HR professionals navigate those situations where, it is defined as a crisis or the resolve conflict?
[00:04:48] Scott Tillema: Sure. As a crisis negotiator, I have a structure that I follow when I'm having these tough conversations, and there's four big principles that I try and touch on to guide this conversation so it doesn't just wander along.
And these principles are understanding, I. Timing, delivery and respect. And real briefly, it just, I, see this as a circle. These principles working together and we work around the circle of, we're always working to understand what is the situation, what am I facing, what is this person presenting to me?
Because I can't solve a problem if I don't know what it is. And we do exercises in our full day conflict negotiation classes. We'll do exercises with HR leaders, with leaders across the industry, and we'll give them assignments to work on. and time again, we're so eager to start problem solving.
We don't understand the problem, right? We miss really I important information. So I always wanna challenge people Before we get into problem solving, let's start by understanding what the situation is. Next we move into the timing piece, knowing when to deliver our message. This is strategy. Rarely is there such time pressure that we have to get everything out right now, but let's be really strategic about it to know when the best time to deliver that message is to a person or to a group.
So we have understanding, timing, then delivery. Delivery is not what you say, it's how you say it. This is how we create feeling and emotion in others. And so often if we're preparing for something, we're preparing what we're going to say. Here's my talking points right here. But rarely are leaders taking any time to practice or give any thought to the delivery or how.
We say it so we have understanding, timing, delivery, and then respect. And respect is more than yes, please, and no thank you, because when that doesn't work, we need to have some thoughts and some strategy on how we go deeper. So this is understanding the motivation of human behavior. How are people making decisions and bringing in the behavioral science, the psychology pieces to really get in their mind and make them feel.
Respected, and that's such a, big piece that people need to have. So difficult conversations for me. Four big principles that are gonna guide that. Understanding, timing, delivery, respect. And, I was, lucky to have the opportunity to share these four principles in my TED Talk, the Secrets of Hostage negotiators.
So if anyone in the audience wants to go a little deeper on that, there's 18 good minutes on YouTube for you to check out.
[00:07:15] Monique Akanbi: Awesome. Okay. So understanding, timing, delivery, and respect. And then in terms of respect, what I, what came to my mind was empathy as well. Right. So kind of understanding or empathizing with the person that, is involved in that crisis or who you're interacting with.
Yes.
[00:07:33] Scott Tillema: You got it. I feel like you've been in my class before. I haven't. you got it though, around respect of what's driving that, and we call that our fears. It's fairness. Empathy, autonomy and recognition. Like, these are the drivers of respect. You know, it's, nice to, you know, feel respected, but how do we create that?
People wanna be treated fairly. People want to feel that empathy piece, like somebody cares about me. We want to have the autonomy or the freedom. To make our own decisions. I know that there's nobody listening right now that's raising their hand going, I love to be micromanaged. Gimme some more micromanaged.
And they're recognizing our people. the, data is there. Harvard Business Review released, a study recently showing that the people who work for the leaders who are in the top 10% Of providing recognition are engaged at like a 70% rate versus the people who. Or working for leaders in the bottom 10% of providing recognition.
They're engaged at like 27.4%. So we have a 40% swing on one metric alone of recognition. So if you wanna have people feel respected in the workplace, pick any one of those four, pick all of those four and start seeing how we can notch that up and people are gonna start to experience you differently. If we can drill down on these seemingly small pieces that are so important to our, wellbeing in psychology.
[00:08:55] Monique Akanbi: Yeah. Is there, and, applying those four methods, right, understanding, timing, delivery and respect. Is there, when a situation arises or crisis arises, how do you remember that process, right? Like, or how do you remember, what are some practical ways to remember that method, those methods,
[00:09:15] Scott Tillema: and I keep it as simple as possible.
It's just four words and I've seen, I, guess methods of hostage negotiation where you have an entire page, it's an entire flow chart, and you have these decision things, and anybody who's ever been under stress and under pressure having a difficult conversation knows there's no time to flip to page 37 and start going through a flow chart decision making.
Say, okay, he said this. Now this is going to be my response. It has to be really simple so we can visualize that. We can remember that, but truly, if we're having these tough conversations, and I mean you'll never believe it, but they don't just let people go and be hostage negotiators. You have to go and get trained the same way as the HR leaders, the leaders of organizations.
You have to be trained, you have to practice, you have to have these skills. So when the time comes, it's not a technique that we're remembering or skills that we're trying out. It's really who we are, that this has been refined over many, years. But I've learned the sad truth is. So many people get promoted into leadership because they're good at what they do technically.
And then their organizations don't provide 'em that support to teach them the skills of leadership. This is a whole different job. You're not doing your job better, you're doing a different job, and leading people, we have to understand how do we connect with one another so we can have the influence to get the results that make our organizations so good.
[00:10:43] Monique Akanbi: Great. So really good methods. Thank you for sharing that. when I think back to when I practiced HR and many workplace conflicts, that I have encountered, and oftentimes it is emotionally charged, so I. Sometimes it gets heated from time after time, depending, right? So I, you know, if it's two individuals where there's a, workplace conflict, both have their perspective or viewpoint regarding a specific topic, or whatever it may be.
And then I. Sometimes people say things that they may regret later. And so what are some effective tactics that hr, leaders can use, to diffuse those emotionally charged situations where someone feels very passionate about something or their stent, or viewpoint on something is. Very, grounded or anchored in what they believe, and then emotions arise.
So as hr, we are off the mediators, how do we step in and diffuse those emotionally charged situations?
[00:11:47] Scott Tillema: Yeah, I, think this is a, great question. We could probably spend a couple hours unpacking all of that. But first of all, let's start with emotion. We are emotional people. Let's understand that and acknowledge that we are going to feel emotion and there's some negotiation training groups that will tell you, let's separate the person from the problem.
And I'm convinced this person has never really had a real difficult conversation because all of us in these moments feel emotion. Our body is talking to us and letting us know, Hey, I feel that in my stomach. My, my hands are getting sweaty. My face is getting warm. Whatever physiological reaction we are going to have is because we are feeling some emotion.
So let's understand that and acknowledge we are emotional people and that's okay. Don't need to suppress that. We don't need to hide that. And somehow emotion has become a negative thing in the workplace. I mean, has anyone in the audience today ever been given a compliment that, Hey, you're really emotional.
And had that been like a positive thing? Never, right? Like, that's never happened. You know, that's always an insult or a critique. Oh, you're way too emotional. Let's, acknowledge we are emotional people and use these emotions moving forward. And this comes back to how do we manage ourselves first? And I'm thinking right now of, a book Man's Search for Meaning.
by Viktor Frankl, which is a powerful book, talking about his experience surviving the Holocaust, and then his, approach to psychiatry. And one of the most famous passages in his book talks about between stimulus and response. There is a space. And in that space is our freedom and power to choose our response.
So getting into the second principle of timing, how do we put some more space in between the stimulus and that response? So if, we are in it, I just want people to see this and think about this. We're stretching this out, and the more emotion we feel, I. The more time we can put in there before we need to respond.
But if we're in a mediation situation, can we demonstrate the behaviors that we wanna see? Because when we are, seeing somebody who's anxious or fidgety, it's gonna raise our anxiety. When we're speaking with pressure behind our words, because we're worked up, it's gonna raise anxiety on the other side.
So this requires some big discipline by people to come into what we know is an emotionally charged situation and really demonstrate the behavior we want to see. And to one of the other points and what you had asked if we wanna lower that temperature, so much of that is allowing people to be heard.
People when they feel that they've been heard, behave a little bit differently and so often we interrupt them and tell them, oh, I get it, or I understand. Rarely is that helping anything because we probably don't understand yet. So let's take all the time. We need to gather that information. I think your power in negotiation comes from information and options.
So why not give them the opportunity to share that with us? Give us the information we need to help come up with creative resolutions on the backside, but just allowing someone to be heard and maybe giving them an emotion label, Hey, you sound frustrated. You seem really upset. We, give them that emotion label instead of telling 'em, I understand.
We demonstrate. Okay, this is what I'm hearing from your emotion. I think that's when everything changes because this is a moment that they finally feel that You get me. There's, I've been talking to so many people and you are the one person who finally gets it. And I think that's half the battle for people.
They just want to feel like they've been treated fairly. They just want to feel like they've been heard. So if you can come in, be a patient listener, and I'll acknowledge, I'm bad at being patient. So if anybody else out there is saying, well, I'm not so good at that, you're not alone. Let's be patient listeners.
Allow people to be heard. Demonstrate the behavior that we want to see, and acknowledge and understand we are emotional people who are going to have emotional responses.
[00:15:50] Monique Akanbi: A lot to digest there, but really good information and it just helps me, like I think back to just in times where there were emotionally charged situations, I think one of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from what you've shared is just allowing kind of even that.
Space in between. So going back to that time component and allowing that space for them to get those emotions out. Right. And not to say I understand sometimes we often, especially as HR professionals, want to show that we can relate. But I can see where saying, I understand could. Maybe create more tension versus allowing the individual to get whatever those emotions or those feelings out, in a way where we can move towards effective resolution.
So thank you for sharing that. You got it. On a similar note, there are more than 68 million acts of incivility in the workplace every day, and that's according to SHR m's. Latest civility index. How can HR professionals maintain civility while handling those conflicts?
[00:16:55] Scott Tillema: Yeah, I think that at, some point, it's more than just being nice, and I think that we're in a time where nobody wants to offend somebody else.
So we can't say This is bad behavior, or you're acting inappropriately. I think a critical piece of leadership is to have some accountability. For the people that we serve. So are we afraid to step up and raise our hand and say, excuse me. This is not acceptable behavior. We're not allowed to say this.
You're not allowed to do this. are, we are, do we have the courage to do that? Because really as, leaders, it's going to take courage. To set some boundaries here on, on what's acceptable and what's not. And if we allow that to continue, now we're putting ourselves in a really difficult position because the person's gonna come back and say, well, I've been doing this for the last couple months, the last couple years, and nobody's ever said anything to me.
So I think let's not forget that a critical. task of HR is to make sure that people are following, along the prescribed rules. So number one are there prescribed rules? Do we understand what is allowed and what isn't? But can we give that feedback to somebody? Can we give that accountability in a respectful way?
I. And so often when people are held accountable or they're called out, they're called out in a negative way. I'm saying, here's my political belief. Somebody else comes in and tells me why I'm wrong, because they're giving their political beliefs or whatever the topic of the day might be. They're, being, come at negatively.
If we come at them and say, here's the situation. Here's my concern with this behavior. We can do that respectfully. I. We can do that without putting them down. We can do that without insulting them or challenging their beliefs in any way, but rather to bring some attention to what's acceptable, what's not.
but also to bring some awareness to, do you have an understanding of how this is impacting our team when you have behavior like this? And sometimes there, there's a revelation there that people can't see beyond themselves or they feel that everybody thinks the way I do. And I think that part of creating a more inclusive, culture, how do we create a culture where people want to be there?
How do we create a culture of connection is by bringing some attention to behavior that's not acceptable and. I think we've forgotten how to do that either. It, we just we're in a time where anybody can do anything they want and it's just okay because, you know, everybody's got this freedom of expression, but when it's harming the workplace environment, when it's harming the product or service that we're offering, at some point somebody needs to come in and put some boundaries there, but it's going to take courage.
These are difficult conversations for a reason. If we wanted to have easy conversations, I tell all my HR friends, go and sell ice cream. This is, a tough job. It's, this is hard to sit down with somebody and just start that conversation. Nobody wants to be the bad guy, but I also have a responsibility to the people behind me, to the people above me, to this organization.
It's not just about being nice to people. We can serve the organization and then serve them, because I don't think there's very many people out there who want to say, Hey, I, am a bad employee. I'm not helping the team. If you can let me know where these blind spots are that I need to improve, that's, actually quite helpful to me.
It might be tough to get some of that critical feedback at first, but, it's, gonna be helpful to me.
[00:20:28] Monique Akanbi: Very good. Thank you for sharing that. So what are some tips that you would give HR professionals? You talked about timing as one of those tactics. and so we touched on timing from the standpoint of emotionally charged situations and allowing, or utilizing time to.
Diffuse, emotions in that moment. What are some tips to help give HR profession, or what are some tips you have for HR professionals to stay agile and feel confident to make quick decisions under pressure? And I think the quick decisions under pressure is a key because oftentimes as HR professionals, we feel like we have to come in and immediately have a solution, right.
Or immediately make a decision. So what are some tips that you have that we could share?
[00:21:17] Scott Tillema: the first tip I would have is I am going to question why do you need to make an immediate decision and for any HR professional listening right now, tell me today that gimme an example of a decision that you had to make immediately this week, this month.
A decision that had to be made immediately. I challenge HR people all the time. I want a decision you had to make right now that couldn't wait for 20 minutes, that couldn't wait till after launch. And rarely, do I get a hand go up to say, well, here's a situation that was crucial. We had to do it right now.
So let's acknowledge that some of the pressure that we feel to make an immediate decision doesn't actually exist. We want to make decisions quickly. Why? Because we're busy people. We're efficient people because as soon as I get this problem taken care of, you know what's next? We got another problem and another issue and another email.
You're busy people. You're making decision. There's pressure from all sides of the organization. But when you feel the need to make an immediate decision, I wanna push back on that and say, is there really a need to make an immediate decision? Because if we don't have to make an immediate decision. I think we're going to make better decisions, and without question, there are going to be times where we need to lead in the idea of let's all come together and come up with a really good solution.
Sometimes we need a leader to step up. This is what needs to happen right now and we need to follow suit and off we go. How often is that really happening? So I want to challenge people who feel, Hey, there's an absolute need to make this decision right now. Please tell me why that is. And if we waited for an hour or two hours, or asked for an extension for a little bit more time to make a good decision, and then we offered the justification for it.
The reason I need an extra day on this is because this is important. There's consequences that are going to follow what's going to happen. So with a little bit of extra time, I can get some input, do a little bit more research, and come out to the, resolution that is best for all involved. So let me push back on that a little bit to say, all right, when we need to make a decision, let's find out why that is.
[00:23:32] Monique Akanbi: No, that, that's really good. and actually I'm just even applying, I'm gonna use that for myself. Right. But you, touched a really key point, and that is because the. If you were to ask me that question, my response probably would be, well, because I have other things I need to do, right? So this is just one less thing on my plate.
so I appreciate you pushing back to say, do you really need, like what is driving the need to make a decision? Now I. Outside of you just want to, you know, remove something off of your plate because you have other, things that you want that you need to get to. So thank you for sharing that. what are some ways HR professionals can quickly establish trust and credibility to create a foundation for fostering cooperation?
[00:24:17] Scott Tillema: Yeah, and I wanna go back to timing on this, on how do we quickly establish trust and credibility? This is tough. We don't quickly establish trust and credibility. We do this over time. So if you wanna show up for a difficult conversation or you wanna show up for a meeting with trust and credibility, we need to start that process a year ago.
And here's the thing, in hr, the rest of us from outside of hr, we're watching you. We are paying attention to what you're doing because we're, we wanna see what is your behavior? What is your attitude? What are your words? What is your address? I wanna see everything about you because you're demonstrating to the rest of us what's acceptable and what's not.
I. so around the idea of trust and credibility, that's gonna come over time. And if you watch the movies on hostage or crisis negotiation, you always know that within 30 minutes there's a helicopter, there's a million dollars, there's a pizza, la, everything's resolved in 30 minutes. The reality is it's not like that.
It does take time. And the FBI says, a lot of these standoffs take two to four hours to get resolved, which is still a very compressed window to get to resolutions very quickly. So if we wanna build trust and credibility, it's going to take time. Don't expect that to be built in a meeting, particularly if this is a conversation of consequence that needs to have happened months ago over a consistent, period where I can observe things that I am comfortable with, that I like, and I think to build that.
It can start with the, skills of active listening crisis and hostage negotiators are taught the eight skills of active listening. And this is so foundational to everything we do. And I think that when people feel like they are being listened to, when people feel like I care about them, when people feel I am interested in them and their work, that's gonna build a bit of connection.
And in our classes we do active listening exercises for two minutes. That's it. People think that it needs to be this 20 minute long get into life kinda thing. In two minutes you're doing a conversation, we're gonna switch. You're gonna work with somebody else for two minutes using these eight skills of active listening.
and time again, people come out of there and they say, I feel a connection with this individual that wasn't there before. So imagine if we do this throughout our day, throughout our week, throughout the month, having these brief conversations where we check in, use some of the skills of Active Li listening to build that relationship.
I. Now are we starting to raise that trust and credibility a little bit more? So when we do have a time of crisis and conflict that this is already established, you are somebody that I believe in. You are somebody who's credible. So when you say, Hey, we have to do it like this, you gimme some of that feedback.
I'm gonna have a more difficult time dismissing you because you've already established so much of what we need to have these powerful relationships of influence and so many leaders try to influence from their position on the organizational chart there trying to influence from a position of power, but let's influence each other because of this relationship.
I look to you, I believe in you. I know what you can do. You. You have the knowledge, you have the decision making. That trust and credibility is already there. I want to follow you and build what we are building.
[00:27:45] Monique Akanbi: That's really good. and it makes me just think back to the organization that I worked at before, and one of our previous episodes actually, where we were talking about, graceful goodbyes.
And I shared a story where, you know, oftentimes in human resources, while we are not, the, individuals that are making the, hiring and firing decisions, we're often facilitating both of those processes. and. My ability to be able to build relationships with employees, where at a point in time we may have been sitting across from each other and maybe, you know, separating the employee employer relationship.
Oftentimes it was that relationship that was built over time, that made that process a little, less burdensome and a little less. Tense, just because, the employees knew that for me it was more of, it was not a light decision that was made. and then we exhausted all options before we got to that point.
So I'm, I appreciate you calling out quickly and especially in a high stressful situation. Isn't. Is counterintuitive, right? Like it doesn't work. you have to start from the beginning and it takes time to build that trust and credibility. So as we wrap up. is there any one thing that you would like to share with our audience, utilizing your experience, in SWAT and in negotiations that HR professionals can take back and apply immediately after listening to this episode?
[00:29:29] Scott Tillema: Yeah, I think that we have to walk away saying that. Understanding that the best negotiators believe in what is possible. We may be put in a difficult situation and we may know where we want to go, but we don't quite see how to get there, and so many people don't try. They give up before they get into that process.
The best negotiators believe in what. Is possible. So are we willing to go into a bit of unknown? Are we willing to step into a conversation where there is uncertainty, where we know there's going to be some anxiety or stress and we avoid that? And here's what happens with our difficult conversations.
When we know there's gonna be negative emotions, we either avoid it, we, don't get into it, close our i's, cross our fingers and hope for the best, or we rush through it as quick as we can. And in either case, you're not going to get really good outcomes. So it's gonna take courage to step into this, but it's also going to take some of these techniques that we talked about here today.
So don't give up on it. Don't be unwilling to try because we don't see the clear path on how to get there. Sit with someone, be willing to hear them, be willing to experience what they have to say, and set aside judgment. If we can set a jo aside judgment and bring curiosity, if we can bring curiosity in lieu of judgment, maybe it's going to give us the opportunity to create good outcomes.
Maybe it's gonna give someone the opportunity to feel like they've been heard and work with you in good faith to get to a better outcome. But so many people say, well, we just can't solve this. We can't resolve the conflict, so I'm not gonna try. It hasn't been done before. It's gonna take leaders who are courageous and have the skills.
Tools and techniques to step into these tough conversations to get to the other side because we can achieve great things. We all have the ability to be powerful verbal influencers, to use our communication to get to really good outcomes. We all have the brilliant ability to connect with one another, and particularly in today's times, we're missing connection.
So go out, this, is your, call. Go out and connect with the people you serve. People are gonna notice if you start putting together, your audience starts putting together all these pieces that we talk about. And yes, it's a very brief episode, but don't let, this be the end.
Let it be the beginning and you start piecing this together. People are gonna notice if you commit to being a little bit better. And I trust that people are watching this if they're listening to all the audience. They're already good at this. They've already committed themselves to being great. How can we commit ourselves to being even this much better?
And we have this ability to connect, go connect. We have the ability to use verbal influence to get to incredible outcomes that we might not be able to see yet. Have the courage to take that first step and get to work.
[00:32:22] Monique Akanbi: Wow. Scott, thank you so much. And that is going to do it for this week's episode of Honest HR.
Again, a big thank you to Scott for sharing his deep insights with us. Honest HR is a part of SHRM's. HR daily flagship content series. Head over to SHRM.org/hr daily to learn more and sign up for our newsletter. You can also catch us on SHRM's. Social Media. Be sure to like, comment and be a part of the conversation.
Thanks for joining us, and until next time,
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