<p>In this episode of <em>Honest HR</em>, host Wendy Fong leads a wide-ranging conversation with HR consultant and SHRM instructor Trisha Zulic, SHRM-SCP, on how to develop into a more effective and empathetic HR professional. Trisha provides her insights on topics including how to identify professional mentors, the value of volunteering and professional development and how HR professionals are poised to change workplaces into more diverse, equitable and inclusive spaces.<br /><br /><b>EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING</b></p><p>Episodes of <em>Honest HR</em> help you build your competencies while also earning professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP or SHRM-SCP recertification. All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during podcast episodes.<br /><br />This episode of <em>Honest HR</em> is sponsored by <a href="http://pnc.com/wellness">PNC</a>.</p>
In this episode of Honest HR, host Wendy Fong leads a wide-ranging conversation with HR consultant and SHRM instructor Trisha Zulic, SHRM-SCP, on how to develop into a more effective and empathetic HR professional. Trisha provides her insights on topics including how to identify professional mentors, the value of volunteering and professional development and how HR professionals are poised to change workplaces into more diverse, equitable and inclusive spaces.
EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING
Episodes of Honest HR help you build your competencies while also earning professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP or SHRM-SCP recertification. All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during podcast episodes.
This episode of Honest HR is sponsored by PNC.
Speaker 1:
This episode of Honest HR is sponsored by PNC Organizational Financial Wellness. Organizational financial wellness organized for you. Learn more at pnc.com/wellness. PNC and PNC Bank are registered marks of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC.
Gloria Sinclair Miller:
Welcome to the Honest HR podcast, the show that explores the uncomfortable, complicated, and sometimes wonderful truths of the workplace.
Amber Clayton:
We're here to have honest conversations, giving you the good, the bad and the ugly side of HR. Nothing is off the table.
Wendy Fong:
This is a SHRM podcast approved to provide SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP re-certification PDCs. Details will be provided inside each qualifying episode. I'm Wendy Fong.
Amber Clayton:
I'm Amber Clayton.
Gloria Sinclair Miller:
And I'm Gloria Sinclair Miller and we are your three hosts.
Wendy Fong:
Hello everyone and welcome back listeners and welcome to anyone who is listening for the very first time. I'm your host, Wendy Fong, Membership Engagement Senior Specialist for SHRM and the SHRM Northern California Community. Today, I have the privilege and pleasure of introducing our guest. Trisha Zulic, SHRM-SCP is a seasoned transformational leader in human resources with a strong business acumen with over 30 years of experience working and volunteering to address the needs of the worker and the workplace.
Over the past 20 years based in San Diego, California, she has spent time volunteering with SHRM to shape policies and solutions that meet the needs of the HR sector and the workers they serve. Trisha serves as a state director of California SHRM also known as CalSHRM, is a panelist for SHRM's Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Special Expertise Panel, and most recently a member of SHRM's Blue Ribbon Commission on Racial Equity. She is committed to advancing pathways and opportunities to workers who are often overlooked. Her three decades of professional experience, coupled with her lived expertise in the industry, brings the voice of so many. Welcome to Honest HR, Trisha. I'm so excited to have you on. How are you?
Trisha Zulic:
I am doing fantastic and thanks for having me here. I really do enjoy talking about these topics. It's going to be a fantastic conversation and I so look forward to it. So let's get started.
Wendy Fong:
Yes, me too. So we worked together before through your volunteer efforts with CalSHRM. You're currently the president and you also were a guest speaker on our Diversity Equity and Inclusion Volunteer Leader quarterly webinar. So what led you to a career in HR? Where did it all start?
Trisha Zulic:
I think I'm like a large part of the HR professional population to where I kind of fell into it. My dreams and aspirations growing up is, I wanted to be a Philharmonic conductor. And when I say Philharmonic conductor, I mean the Los Angeles or New York Philharmonic. I'll take London, but I don't like the travel.
I grew up most of my life with that aspiration and dream until I actually sat with a student advisor and they asked me, "So what's your backup plan?" And I'm like, "I don't have one."
So growing up with those aspirations of being a Philharmonic conductor and realizing that I may not be able to make it there, I had to come up with a backup plan and it wasn't HR. It was actually, "I'm going to be a CPA."
And here I go down the route of studying to sit for the CPA exam. My dad taught me so young, always have mentors that have been there, done that. I remember contacting my mentor and saying, "I'm going to sit for the CPA. Is there anything you can help me with?" My mentor said, "You're going to do what?" I said, "I'm going to sit for the CPA exam. I'm going to be an accountant."
And they asked me this simple question, "Do you balance your checkbook?" I go, "No." And then there was silence. And I said, 'Oh." He said, "Are you really choosing a career you want to be a part of when you don't do it in your own life?" I go, "Oh my goodness. I didn't think about it that way. Now, what do I do?" He suggested, "Go get a job as an office manager. An office manager gets to touch so many different aspects of the business and then see what really appeals to you." And that's how I got into HR.
Because I have this feeling to want to help people, I thought I was going to be a teacher once upon a time. HR, being in human resources, I feel I've helped so many discover who they are and so it became calling. So I just kind of fell into it over the years.
Back in the day when I first started practicing HR, it was called personnel management and it's really move the paper to the left, move the paper to the right, it wasn't about the human capital. Watching it change over the years and being part of that change has been so invigorating for not only the profession, not only for me, but for the worker and the workplace. So that's kind of how I got into HR so many years ago. So just to let you know, I know full cycle accounting, but that's not who I am today.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. So let's back up a little bit. You talk about having a mentor and how mentors are important and I completely agree. Mentors have really helped shape me and give me kind of clarity and direction when I have all these unanswered questions, wisdom to pass down. And most of our listeners are actually emerging professionals or starting new in their career so how did you find your mentor? How would you seek a mentor? What role did a mentor play?
Trisha Zulic:
So when my dad told me to find mentors that had been there, done that, he always told me to seek out people that are already mature in their career, people that are ready to pay it forward, give back. So in going to UCLA, when I first went and auditioned there, I got a brand new mentor because I met someone who was later in their career, going back to school and they've already been working. And I'm like, "You know, I'm always looking for great people to talk to." I didn't call them mentor. Said, "Great people to talk to and bounce advice off of," and things like that.
I kind of told them my story and what I was doing, and how just going to the audition at UCLA was just the most humbling moment of my life. Because growing up, I was considered one of the best musicians in my school's district. I played in the junior Philharmonic. I did all these things. People told me, "You could go far. You could do this." I used to be able to write music. I used to have perfect pitch. I mean the marching band used to tune to me. It was just an amazing thing.
Then sitting through an audition at UCLA, I'm sitting in the back of the auditorium, listening, going, "Oh my goodness. I'm not that great person. I'm out of my school district." So that's when I saw somebody sitting two or three chairs down, who seemed to be mature, based on looking at them and talking to them and I just created and cultivated a relationship. I've actually done that my entire life now. I've always had two or three people that I could talk to that have kind of been there, done that, ready to give back that can be my sounding board, who will listen to some of the ideas that I have and how I'm doing things.
I think it is so important for HR professionals to have that person, because what we do as a profession, a lot of it has to stay confidential. So we're consuming all that every day, all day and if you don't have that person that you can have a high level conversation with without disclosing anything that shouldn't be disclosed, you're bottling all that up and it creates an anxiety doesn't need to be there. So whether it be a mentor, another HR professional you know, you need that person.
I'm happy to say I'm that person for several people. I've got the privilege and honor to teach courses for SHRM. And every time I teach courses, there's like a half a dozen students that just, they latch on and I just love it. And I say, "I'm paying forward. Let me know how I can help you even if it's just the sounding board." I think everyone needs that in their life, in their career.
Wendy Fong:
Well, firstly, I'm curious. What instrument did you play?
Trisha Zulic:
Oh wow. So of course I started off with piano at a very young age, had to take piano lessons. I got bored with that very quickly and started with the violin. This was elementary school. Then by the fourth grade, everybody was playing violin. So I wanted to play viola because nobody was playing it. I needed to be that different kid, right?
So through elementary school and then during that time elementary school went through the sixth grade, I played the viola. When I got into middle school, there were more viola and violin players than I wanted. Here I am looking at the competition and they say, "Okay, so you want to be viola? Do you want to try out for second chair?" I said, "No, I want to learn to cello." So I learned the cello because there was only two of us. So I was either first or second. I wasn't six chair or fifth chair. So I learned the cello.
And I tell you, all of us have that teacher we might remember in our life. That's where Mr. Davenport told me, "You realize you have a gift, right?" I go, "Excuse me. They go, "We can put an instrument in your hand and you can figure it out." I go, "Oh, okay." He says, "We gave you this cello three weeks ago. You've been practicing for three weeks and you sound like you've been paying for 40 years." And I said, "I don't know. I can just hear the next note that's going to play." And that's just something I've always been able to do.
He took me under his wing. He says, "I want to try something. I want you to take this flute, I want you to take it home. I'm not going to tell you anything about it. Here's the fingering chart. I want you to tell me if you can figure it out. Here's how you breathe through the flute." I took it home and in three days I was playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Figured it out.
He says, "Now, that we have that fingering down, here's the clarinet." I go, "But I don't know how to play to clarinet." He says, "It's the same fingering." From there, we went to the saxophone. From there, we went to the oboe and when I got to the oboe, I said, "This is it. This is it." The reason why the oboe and the bassoon intrigued me so much is, not a lot of people played that instrument. So again, I'm like, "Am I seeking attention or do I want to be special?" But no, it was just that instrument that was sitting there by itself and it needed a friend.
So, I started playing the oboe, which it's interesting, that's middle school for me and that's when I tried out into the junior Philharmonic group that they had in Los Angeles. When I went in to audition and they said, "Oh, what instrument do you play?" And I go, "The oboe." They go, "Oh my goodness, you play the oboe? Oh wow. How long have you been playing?" That was the first time in my entire life that I walked into a room and felt accepted. Period. That was my group. That was my tribe. Those were my people because they were so interested in that journey with the oboe and they became my people from that moment on it. It wasn't the kids that I grew up with on my block, it wasn't the kids I necessarily went to school with, it was those other fellow musicians that saw something in me and we had that commonality that we can have these conversations.
So, I stuck with the oboe for several years and got into high school, started playing soprano sax. Was in the jazz workshop. I was able, by the time I finished my 12th grade year, play every instrument except for a drum set. I don't know what happened, but that rhythm, I just don't have it. I can do simple things, but I just can't do the big things on the drum set. But when it came to filling in for the marching band, I could pick up a trombone, I could pick up a French horn. I had that ability.
Wendy Fong:
Wow. I didn't realize you were such a musician. I should have asked you to bring one of your instruments to play something for us.
Trisha Zulic:
I have not played in years, but music is a big part of me and it's a big part of what created me from the standpoint of, my dad was an electrical engineer, my mom was somewhat of a manufacturing operations manager, is what you would call her today. And because of that left brain capability that I have, I take music and whenever I hear song, I pick it apart and name all the instruments. I make it a task.
But I apply those abilities at work. I apply it to HR. Whenever something comes to me, I sit silent for a moment and I look for all the instruments that are playing in the background of the situation. What's making this song, this song? And I tell you it's really helped me in my career to excel in business, in operations, in everything, because by really finding out what the root cause of all the sounds that are going on, I'm able to see the bigger picture of what's happening. In other words, I see all the music.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah, that's great. I definitely agree that outside of HR, there's so many different passions that we pursue. For you, is music. For me, it was theater. When I first got a theater degree, my parents thought I was crazy. Like, "How are you going to make any money out of this?" But then I've really used a lot of the skills that I've learned, like working in a group, working in a team to put on a production. It taught me almost business operations, marketing that I can apply today as I work at SHRM and I'm successful at it and I give credit to my theater degree. So I definitely can relate to you there, Trisha.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah. It's interesting. If we all take a moment and really think about what we're passionate about, we actually can apply it to what we do every day. And it'll bring just a touch more joy to our lives when we're able to apply that to what we do every day.
I love how you say you have a theater degree, because when I'm coaching HR professionals that are just frustrated with something that's happening at work, I said, "You know your talent today. What's your talent mean? Now, let's perform. Go in with a smile on your face and create a performance today, because you can't let people see you down. You're supposed to help lift people up."
So now sometimes do we act? Absolutely. I think we have to, because we're dealing... They call it trying times and hard times and all these different things. It's just different. And we're trying to find our way with this different and how to behave and how to help our employees, how to help our employers, how to help the workplace heal. So I think we can apply all the things that we're passionate about outside of work, to the actual work itself. And I do think it'll make a better workplace for a better world.
Wendy Fong:
Exactly. And HR, as I'm learning, wear so many different hats and especially this year during COVID and the social unrest. In California, we had wildfires, but crises are inevitable. What advice would you give to HR professionals to balance all of this work and life? I know HR has probably been the most overwhelmed, one of the professions that have been most overwhelmed compared to other professions.
Trisha Zulic:
Well first and foremost, this is our time. That moment has arrived and this is our time. Yes, do we have to be the COVID specialist? Do we have to be these different things? Yes. But now's the time to embrace it, but also now is the time to manage it.
Every HR professional I've asked in the last few months, "Are you working more than you have ever?" "Yes. It just seems never ending." And then I go, "Why?" They go, "I'm so busy." And I go, "Why?" I go through the five whys. Like, "Well there's a lot going on." "Well, when do you make time for yourself?" "Well, I'm not doing it." And I said, "There's your answer. You're not doing it. You have to take time for yourself and scheduling it."
So like I said, I teach certification prep for the SHRM-CP, SCP. And I love when I get new participants, they're like, "Well, I don't have time," and this and that. I said, "That's what a calendar's for. Calendar it. Make time for yourself. This is your time to really show how your business acumen and your leadership and navigation can show and assist a company through this because this is our time." They now see we're not a necessary evil, we're necessary to the growth of the business and the sustainability of business. This is our time.
Wendy Fong:
What are the five whys? Just so our listeners know, what are the five whys that I need to ask myself on a daily basis?
Trisha Zulic:
Well the five whys is a theory of getting to a root cause analysis. So when you say, "I'm just so busy." "Why?" "Because there's a lot of work to do." "Why?" Well, I haven't had time to update the HRS system." "Why?" "Because I'm too busy complaining about what I need to do and not getting anything done" [inaudible 00:18:30] root cause.
Sometimes we spend so much time complaining about what we can't get done or what one manager won't do, that we're not utilizing the time properly. A good example is, I have somebody I mentor and we talk maybe once or twice a week for 10, 15 minutes. She was telling me how she did a short business case, how I taught her to get a temporary file clerk to help her in HR because the filings backed up. I just told her, "I don't know if there's an HR professional out there that will say their filing is always caught up unless they're completely paperless." I said, "This is just a struggle we deal with because paper is part of what we do," especially here in California, where I sit.
And I told her one day, I said, "Oh, let's chat on Thursday." "Okay." I said, "When we chat on Thursday, I want you to close the door and put me on speakerphone." And she goes, "Okay." I said, "You trust me, right?" And she goes, "Yeah, I trust you." I said, "Okay, let's do that."
So she goes in to work and she calls me up. She closed the door. I said, "You got your coffee and your tea or whatever it is you drink?" She goes, "Yeah, I got everything." I said, "Okay, put it on top of the file cabinet." And she goes, "What?" I said, "We're going to file while we're talking. So all the time you're complaining about filing, let's get it started."
So we spent about 12 minutes on that first call and she was filing at the same time as we were chitchatting. And it turns out what she made the short business case about, what she had been complaining about for six months that couldn't get done, she got it done within three calls, a total of 47 minutes. So sometimes we have to change our perspective to be able to get control of our own time. And sometimes that's, I think the saying goes, eat the frog on Monday or something like that, where you just have to tackle it.
I, myself, as an HR professional and a consultant for a business, I actually have my filing calendar. I only file once a quarter, but that's because we're virtually paperless. And this is for the things that must be filed and it's calendared. I know what I'm going to do it, I know how long it takes.
So, as we think about the five whys and balancing what's going on in our very busy lives, we have to look at where we're spending our time. Some of us are spending more time complaining about what's not getting done, or what one manager did or what somebody didn't do versus looking at it strategically and moving forward.
You talk about the many hats. The HR department have one credential for SHRM. One of the visuals in that course is all the hats we have. We have the fairy hat. We have the king hat. We have the queen hat. We have the police hat. We have the fireman hat. We have the coach hat. We have the football tackler hat. We have the policeman hat. We have all these hats we wear.
And when we walk in to work every day, even if it's virtually, we're grabbing a hat off that hat rack. By the end of the day, we might have 10 hats on our head, but we're balancing them. This is one of those things where you embrace your journey, understanding that all those hats, they're all yours. Embrace them, because we sit in a unique place where we can truly be helpful. We can be the coach for the company. We can be the firefighter. We can be the police department. We can be the king, the queen, the counselor, the mother, the father, the sister. We can do all these things for our workplace and our workers. It's something to be happy about and embrace.
Wendy Fong:
So to start, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, you recommended calendaring everything. So even calendaring the not so fun stuff like filing or paperwork along with the fun things. Like I would calendar taking a break or even my lunch break. Something as simple as your lunch break, where if you're just in the zone and so busy, you can forget to take your lunch. And then you're grumpy at two o'clock, because you're you haven't eaten anything.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm that person. If you could see my calendar right now, I mean, literally I have meal breaks in my calendar and the suggested meal I should eat. I don't always follow that. I have things in my calendar when it's time to stop, when it's time to start, when it's time to have a chat with another HR professional, when it's time to talk to my sister. I use my calendar for a lot of those things, because that puts control in my life. When you have control, things seem to be calmer. When things are out of control, that's when you get frustrated, you get tired, you forget things, things slip through the cracks, things go wrong. It's about how do you manage yourself? How do you manage your time?
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. Setting those boundaries.
Trisha Zulic:
Absolutely.
Wendy Fong:
Right. To take care of yourself first, right? That old saying, you got to take care of yourself first before you can take care of others.
Trisha Zulic:
So very true. I have never really been into meditation until recently. When I say meditation, people immediately think I'm sitting on the floor and my hands are up and it's dark in the room. No, I'm not that person. I'm the person that has it on the app. While I'm brushing my teeth, the five minute meditation is playing and it's talking about either acceptance or be kind and gratitude. Just the words and the calming spa-like music, take me to a place where I feel so much better about what I'm about to do.
Sometimes I have to just play it in the background in the middle of the day. Even those days when I've planned everything, my calendar is set and I walk into the office and things are not going the way they should, when I need that mental health moment, I kid you not, Wendy, I go to Instagram, I type in the search bar, hashtag puppies, and there I go for at least three minutes looking at puppy dogs, because I love fur babies.
Wendy Fong:
How could you go wrong with puppies?
Trisha Zulic:
You can't go wrong with puppies. They are the great things. I'm not saying that that's something that'll work for other people, but we have to take control of what's happening with us so we can be useful to the worker in the workplace. If we're not taking care of ourselves, how do we do that?
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. I recently got into meditation as well. I don't know if it was because of COVID, but I found myself having trouble falling asleep at night because my mind would be racing. I'd be thinking about all the things I had to do or all the things that were on my plate and just feeling overwhelmed so I couldn't fall asleep.
Trisha Zulic:
I hate to interrupt you, but congratulations, you're officially in HR. Our time where we remember everything we need to do is right when we lay down to go to sleep. We have emails flying in our head, we're thinking about what we need to do tomorrow, what is management up to? What does leadership want? That all happens right when we lay down to go and rest our brain and our bodies. So congratulations. You've made it. If you can't sleep at night, you're officially there.
Wendy Fong:
Oh, thank you. I have the badge now. Well, yeah, so I mean, one night I couldn't even fall asleep for two hours. like, "Okay, this is ridiculous. This is has to stop." So I started researching how to fall asleep and relax better and meditation came up as well. It wasn't the stereotype of the person being Zen, sitting cross-legged like you mentioned, but there's so many different types of meditation. You could have a mantra and repeat it like, "I'm going to have a great day," or your example, playing music with positive affirmations. For me, it's journaling. I just have to just write down or type out just everything that's in my head and just get it out of my head. And then once I get it out of my head, I feel better. Like, I've let it go in a way, almost like a release of everything.
Trisha Zulic:
Well, you're still an emerging leader so you're able to do that. Once you've been in HR, in the business as long as I have, there's no way to get it all out. So sometimes you just have to let go and accept and know that tomorrow is another day that you're going to make brilliant, but you need to rest your body and mind tonight to be brilliant the next day.
Everybody has their own way of doing it. I don't have so much trouble sleeping anymore, because I've been able to accept things and now everything's always in the calendar. So when it's night-night time, my husband laughs at me. He says, "I don't have to say much because you're out." And I said, "Yeah, it's very peaceful." Even during everything that's going on, I'm still able to get rest because I need to do that because the worker and the workplace are depending on me.
Wendy Fong:
And how many hours of sleep do you get or would you recommend people should get?
Trisha Zulic:
Well, I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist or psychologist or anything like that and I am that person that has survived unlike 5.42 hours of sleep for a very long time in my life. I actually get about seven hours of sleep. I wear my little Fitbit that I got at the SHRM conference, yay, and it tells me how my sleep is doing. I think how much sleep depends on the individual and what they need to rejuvenate their body. And I can function, highly function with five hours of sleep, but seven hours is nice.
Wendy Fong:
It is.
Trisha Zulic:
If I get up at 5:15 every morning, 5:19 at the latest, I pop up because I'm ready to go take a ride. I do indoor cycling on my Peloton. I'm HR strong, #hrstrong if anybody wants to follow up.
Wendy Fong:
I feel like I need to get a Peloton. Like every one HR person I've talked to, purchased one recently or has one. I'm like, "Okay, I need to get on this." And we're not endorsed by them in any way, by the way.
Trisha Zulic:
But even if you don't get one of those, you can still use different apps to make sure you're taking care of mind and body. You got to take care of yourself.
Wendy Fong:
Absolutely. Well, it also sounds like when I read your bio, that you wear a lot of hats in volunteer roles, right? You're in the part of the Blue Ribbon Commission on Racial Equity, you're on the Special Expertise Panel for DE&I, CalSHRM president, you're the past president for San Diego SHRM. So on top of all that we already have to do, how do you find time to volunteer or even take professional development?
Trisha Zulic:
I got to tell, you know when you were talking about finding a mentor and how people should do that, I had yet another humbling moment in my life and I'm sure I'll have many more. I was at a SHRM conference in Las Vegas so many years ago and I remember I was sitting on a sofa watching HR do what HR does at the national conference, and somebody walked up to me and said, "Oh, I see you from San Diego, California." And I'm like, "How did you know that?" Dumb, wearing a badge, right? And they said, "I never see you at any of the chapter meetings." I go, "I'm a member, but I don't go." And they go, "Oh, that's interesting. Why?" I said, "I don't know if they have anything that meets my needs."
He leaned in and said, "We're looking to meet the needs of the HR professional, especially in the emerging leader. And I think it would be a good idea that if we're not producing what the needs that you believe you need, I think you should come in, volunteer and help us on that path to success, to attract you and more people like you."
Oh my goodness. So you know when you give a challenge to an HR professional, what we do? I leaned in and I became part of the board of San Diego SHRM. It was the best professional decision I ever made.
Now, granted, I was already a member of SHRM and already member of the local chapter. Remember, I was born and raised in Los Angeles, moved to San Diego. I joined the local chapter to put it on my resume to make it look like I knew something about San Diego.
When I became part of that board, I had a brand new group of professionals to talk to. I found new mentors, new peers, and it began a very unique journey for me. So I volunteered for San Diego SHRM and being secretary, it took me maybe 45 minutes a month to volunteer and give back. And I started going to the meetings, meeting other HR professionals and meeting other business professionals as well.
I rotated through different positions on the board and one day, I became the president of the chapter. The person who originally recruited me, I'll say, his name is David Monks, past president San Diego SHRM, he said to me, "So how's the journey been?" I said, "The most amazing journey ever." Volunteering is the best because so many unique people get involved.
So I started volunteering with SHRM as well. And I was keeping track of my time because calendar's always been my friend to how I manage things. I'm like, "Well, this doesn't take much time." And I also thought back years ago, the business owner that made me his office manager, he says, "I'm going to give you an opportunity to do here whatever you'd like. All I ask for you is, to pay it forward one day." I'm like, "Wow, I could really pay it forward doing this."
What's amazing, and SHRM has not asked me to say this, this is how I really feel, I felt I was giving back to the profession. I felt I had a voice. I felt I could be proactive versus reactive by being part of the A team. It really leveled up my career in a way that I don't think could have happened if I wasn't a volunteer. I'm so happy they still allow me to volunteer. Actually, I think I applied for the technology panel and they said, "I think you'd do great on the DE&I panel." And I'm like, "Okay, I'll go where I'm needed. I'll see what kind of voice I can have in this space."
I was told by some very great people at SHRM, they go, "You have a very unique voice and you're probably going to find it really, really soon." And that's exactly what happened. So volunteering, it doesn't cost a thing, but it gives you so, so much.
Being the state director? Wow. I feel like I've reached the top. And when I was telling this to another HR professional who I was mentoring, sorry, if I get choked up, it actually brings tears to my eyes, because it's so humbling to be a volunteer and be the state director in California, over the HR professionals in this state to help mold and craft, to level up our profession for better workplaces, better world. I cannot tell you how amazing that feels.
I don't know how I'm going to leave it behind, but I will, because I'm there to warm the chair for the next person, not take the chair with me. So I want to leave it at that, because this is a super emotional topic, volunteering, because it's done so much. I've been able to help so many and I want to continue to do that.
Wendy Fong:
Well, I appreciate you sharing. It sounds like, I mean, there's so much that you give and you get so much more out of it than you would ever expect, right? Helping you in your career, as you mentioned, and making a difference in the profession, it's so much more bigger than just ourselves. And it just took that one person, David monks, to outreach to you. It sounds like you started small, right? You don't have to just jump in and be the president right away, but start small, like baby steps of getting involved.
Trisha Zulic:
And if I may say one last thing on that, it gave me board experience. Where else can HR get that to be able to say, "I need a seat at the table." Being on that board and seeing how a board functions gave me board experience that's super unique, that it's hard to get. And having that board experience, I'm able to take it into the business world and know how boards should operate, how they communicate, how they get things done.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. I also feel like when we volunteer, I also volunteer with a few professional associations for pan agent leadership and also for professional association executives has also a professional association for themselves, but we're able to take more risks and be more creative and think outside of the box, because it's a volunteer role, right. It's not tied to our paycheck necessarily and we're able to take those failures and successes and carry those lessons into the actual day-to-day workplace.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah. And you know what, bring people along for the ride as well. I think that's so important. Warm the chair, don't take the chair with you. Warm it for somebody else to come take the chair. And I think it's just priceless. It's just priceless. It gives me so much every day. One day, I'm going to have to sit and write about my volunteer journey, because I guess for me it's been amazing and it's continuing and I really do love it.
Wendy Fong:
Well, I hope that your story will inspire our listeners. Hopefully, you are that one person to inspire our listeners out there to start volunteering, if they're not already. Start small. Start with your local chapter. See what opportunities there are and see how you can learn from those experiences and get involved and experience what Trisha is sharing with us today.
Trisha Zulic:
Yep. It's the one way to get the seat at the table that you may have always aspired to have and they will welcome you in to sit at the table and help make those decisions. No matter where you are globally, where SHRM is located, there's a chapter that's probably looking for you and want your specific expertise, your diversity of thought, how you can apply things to make it better for the HR profession.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. SHRM has over 550 chapters across the nation, as well as state councils. Every state has a state council where you can... There's also volunteer opportunities.
Trisha Zulic:
Yep. You can be on a committee. There's so many things you can do based on how you want to give back. If you don't know how to give back, ask them. They will have a conversation with you and talk to you about the things they do and what they want to do. And you can start giving your ideas. You can impact the profession this way. And what a great thing to add to your resume, "I impact the HR profession. This is what I did."
Wendy Fong:
Boom. Okay. Talk about professional development, you're instructor, you mentioned, and you're also certified SHRM-SCP. Talk about the importance of professional development.
Trisha Zulic:
Well, I will tell you, so if you look on my LinkedIn, you'll notice I don't have an advanced degree and I've always felt that hindered me in some ways, but in many ways it has not. And so when SHRM came out with the SHRM-CP SCP, I needed to get it. I need to have it, to show that I could. The journey to become certified, I won't say it's easy, but it's also not hard. I think having those initials behind my name has been a critical component to my continued success. Anyone that knows me, has been around me no matter what kind of meeting or Zoom call I'm on and my name comes up, I say, "Trisha Zulic, SHRM-SCP." It is part of who I am.
The one thing I look back at when we had the downturn in the economy back in 2008, 2009, many companies did layoffs, revamps. They got rid of their learning and development. They got rid of their training and the next thing you know, HR was gone. Those that took the opportunity to level up, they found themselves in a more positive situation.
I call upon HR professionals to invest in themselves. I mean, so many people say, "I want to get certified but my company won't pay for it." You should not even be waiting for them. This should be something you're doing for yourself and begin the journey. Because as I did for NorCal, California, nothing changes if nothing changes. If you sit and talk about becoming certified one day, but you don't take the first step, it's not going to happen.
It's just like, if you opened up an online map, the first thing it's going to want to know is where are you and where do you want to go so they can set your route and destination. You need to do that for your own life when it comes to becoming SHRM certified. I'm a big believer in lifelong learning.
So I started off with the certification and then I'm like, "Ooh, what are these credentials? Ooh, they're nice little badges. This is nice." Then when I took the first course, I go, "Oh my goodness, this is amazing." And I think it's so great, so relevant and so timely to be SHRM-certified and then getting credentials, specialty credentials in the area that interests you most.
Now, granted I have just about all of them. The only one I haven't done yet is probably people analytics and just like most HR people, I look at the numbers go, "Okay, I'll wait on that one," but I will do that one as well, because I'm ready to embrace that challenge.
But I look at in today's world and I look at the inclusive workplace culture credential and everything that's going on. Literally, when I took that course, I had tears in my eyes. I'm like, "This is such amazing rich material." Let me tell you what's so important about that. You walk away with a plan. I call it my SHRM conference bag, because I'm that person that used to go to the conference years ago, I've gone every single year having this and I would collect all this stuff at the conference and then I'd get back to my office and put the conference bag in the corner and I would say I would get to it. Then it was time to register for the next conference. I look in the corner and there's the bag. And then I finally empty it. These credentials are nothing like the conference bag. They're actionable now.
So I know you asked about SHRM certification. To me, that's a given. Every HR professional should be SHRM-certified. It shows that not only do you have the knowledge, but you're able to apply the knowledge.
One of the things I tell the people that takes the prep course, I say that, "When you're done with this and you have your credentials, you take that learning system, you put it on the bookshelf in your office," because I have one in my office. I refer to it with my management leadership team all the time. It lends credibility to not only the profession, it lends credibility to me, but it's also a best practice.
I tell my mentors, "You know what, let me look up what the best practice is." I go to my book and I turn the page say, "Okay. So this is the best practice and this is how we can apply it here." That's why I have such a great relationship with my managers and my leaders, because I show them that. So yeah, SHRM-certified the credentials, oh, they're amazing. They're so amazing.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. Professional development goes back to the theme of what we talked about, taking care of yourself, right? Investing in yourself. It's part of growing yourself. Not only that, but it's part of upskilling, staying competitive in the market. The economy goes up and down. That's just the nature of the economy, but how can you yourself stand out amongst all your peers? I certainly would agree that professional development is one way.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah. And you need to be a life long learner, especially in HR. Things are changing and they're changing faster and faster every day. With these credentials and with the SHRM certification, you have so much information at your fingertips. It's there for you.
I know I mentioned, I teach the courses, but I'm not an employee of SHRM. I say this because I feel it because I mean it, and I know it to be the truth.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. I know SHRM offers several specialty credentials. I'm actually enrolled in the inclusive workplace culture one next week so I'm very excited to take that, because I don't have enough years of experience to sit for the SHRM certification exams yet, but the specialty credentials are a great way to just get that professional development started. Because you don't have to have any years of experience to take those courses.
Trisha Zulic:
I agree. You walk in learning something and you walk out with something that you could take with you on your professional journey.
Wendy Fong:
Absolutely.
Trisha Zulic:
But I will say being on the Blue Ribbon Commission, if you have not looked at who's on that commission, take a close look. Don't just look at where they work, look at who they are. We literally have a neuroscientist who talks about the brain and the reactors and how that works and why we have barriers in the workplace and why do we still have inequity in the workplace? And all these things we've been meeting, the dates are on the Together Forward At Work website, what dates we get together and talk. We're producing briefs and then it's posted on the website for full transparency.
But out of that work will come some great ways and tools and ideas to really create that shift in the workplace that needs to happen. We, HR professionals, we have superpowers right now. We have superpowers right now. Not only are we needed, we're expected at the table. And part of not just the fact that we're dealing with a pandemic, but the fact that we're dealing with social things happening outside of the work, if we start handling those things inside work, it will spill outside of work so inside-out approach.
I'm loving it because I'm learning so much and I can't wait to see the tools and things that we finally produce. Unfortunately, I can't mention those right now, but they will be on the Together Forward At Work website. If you haven't looked at who's on that commission, you really should look at them, connect with them. They've written some great information, very, very powerful people in the space.
Because myself as an HR professional, I take pause when there's so many people popping up saying they're a DE&I specialist and a couple of weeks ago they owned a restaurant or something. Be very careful out there. You need to turn to SHRM, your professional association, to get the proper guidance, to make sure that you're getting the information you need to help your workplace.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. I would recommend everyone to check out... Just search Together Forward At Work, has a whole website dedicated. It's opened for everyone, free for everyone members and non-members. You could sign up to get email updates, but there's a lot of different research on there that SHRM did. There's templates, quizzes, just to get started. Sometimes it's all about getting the conversation started, having those conversations.
But you talk about how HR professionals can change the trajectory of what happens in the workplace, because HR has that power. We're in charge of talent acquisition and the life cycle and hiring of the employee. So how can we make that change? Identify ways that we could change and bring workplace equity, starting with that.
Trisha Zulic:
So it's interesting because in talking with people that I mentor and other HR professionals, they talk about how their company doesn't want to give budget for a program or strategy or anything else. I said, "You don't really need that. It's talent acquisition. Where are you hiring from? Where are you promoting from? What are you doing differently?" Because I hear from HR professionals all the time, "Oh, I use blahdy blah website. That's what I use."
Well, have you changed recently? Because if you keep going to the same well, you'll get the same water. How do you change that? It begins with the talent acquisition process, who we hire and bring into our organization. Also, where does our culture stand in our workplace? I'm not talking about the culture that's on a poster on the wall. What's the real culture in the workplace?
I guarantee you if you take a moment to sit back, your culture will change before your eyes within a matter of an hour. It's changing so fast in the workplace right now, because so many people are bringing their whole self to work. Some people, they weren't raised to do that and some people, they were. Some people are bringing more than what the employers used to see. Culture is changing every day and I think we need to recognize that and understand it's no longer the poster on the wall.
But in looking at not just our talent acquisition processes, but what we do to promote talent. So I use myself as the example. I'm the state director of CalSHRM. For years, the state director always writes articles like once every four to six months and sends it out in the newsletter. Anyone that's known me or talked to me, knows Trisha Zulic, SHRM-SCP is not a writer.
So I come to the state council with, I need help. I'm actually a diversity candidate from a thought process for the state council, not just because I'm a black woman, not because I'm over 40, but I'm not a writer. So what they did to support me to bring equity to me and help me was, do something different to make me feel full and equitable as a state director. I just don't write.
So I believe that HR professionals or anyone with the responsibility, equity, inclusion and diversity starts with talent acquisition and it starts with you. That starts with helping people understand what their biases might be and their unconscious biases. I hired a candidate that I normally would not have considered, but I needed to give him this opportunity, has been the best employee ever. In fact, he's the person we measure to for great employment, click great employee. So you have the power. Now is the time and you can make a difference.
Wendy Fong:
It sounds like you're very self-aware of what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are and your own unconscious biases. How can we start to examine ourselves as individuals if we're not at that level yet?
Trisha Zulic:
Well you can actually do a self SWOT, Wendy, and really just get real with yourself, and means looking in the mirror and telling yourself what's really going on. We're not going to eradicate biases, but we need to recognize them and see what we're doing about them. When we see people, we see something.
So there's something called legacy diversity and we're all stuck in that. Legacy diversity is what you see, whether the person's male or female, or whether they have brown eyes or brown skin or black hair or yellow hair, whatever, legacy diversity. What you're not seeing in diversity is, thought diversity, socioeconomic diversity, all those different things. You have to become self-aware of those different things and what you think about people when you see them.
So you can do the simple exercise of even just watching a TV show by yourself and jotting down the biases that you come up with as you're watching the show. Is it what the producer intended? Is it what the director intended? And recognizing them so that you can address them within yourself when they do come up. But I think recognizing them and doing something about them can be done.
Doing a self SWOT analysis, it can definitely help you in starting to recognize your own strengths, your own weaknesses, your own opportunities, your own threats, because some of the biases that we have can be a threat to our own success. That whole talk of, I can't do it, or I won't be able to do that, or I don't want to go there, or I don't like that, all those different things. Get to the root cause of why you feel or think that way.
Wendy Fong:
I like that suggestion. I haven't tried that before, where you should watch an episode or a movie even, and write down your biases to start seeing what unconscious bias you have that you weren't aware of before. Sounds like a great way to start.
Trisha Zulic:
It's pretty interesting, because I actually sat down and was trying to watch a show and do that and I couldn't get past the fact that the girl on the show looked like she was a size two and I was completely jealous the entire time. I'm like, "That's a bias." I'm like, "Oh my goodness, that's a bias." And so what do I do about that? I need to embrace who I am and where I am in this journey and not, and the journey I'm talking about is weight loss or managing weight, and not have biases because people are smaller than me.
Wendy Fong:
Or also to look at it another way too though, sometimes the lack of diversity in media at times, I noticed that being Asian, Chinese American like, "Oh, I wish there was a little more diversity in Asian American characters instead of like the side character." You rarely see them in playing in a main role.
Trisha Zulic:
Right. Right. I think Hollywood is picking up on that and they're doing a lot of work with that and opening doors for people to have the opportunity, because the door wasn't open before and they couldn't see people in these roles. I think even since the pandemic began, you have seen even commercials and things like that change.
Wendy Fong:
Yes. It has been very exciting.
Trisha Zulic:
Or either we just now noticed it, because I looked at a commercial the other day and I had to go back and look at when the commercial was produced and first aired. It had been there all this time, I just didn't see it, but I've seen the commercial many times, but I didn't see it.
Wendy Fong:
That's true. I mean, would you recommend us asking maybe those close to us about their perceptions of us and maybe do like a, with someone you're close with that you trust, "Okay. It's a confidential conversation. Let's talk about our biases." Do you think that would be productive as well?
Trisha Zulic:
It can be, but you have to be comfortable with yourself and be willing to hear what they're saying and understand it's their truth and what they think. I have a very close friend and him and I talk oh, four or five times a week and we can have those conversations with each other and he'll say, "Well, Missy, let me tell you about you." I go, "Oh my goodness." To have these conversations, you have to be able to receive it and respect the message. You may not agree with it, but you got to respect the message.
That goes back to tolerance and patience. Yes, you can have those conversations, but you have to have the tolerance and patience and dignity and respect for each other first. If not, you'll be at separate ends and can never come together.
Wendy Fong:
Agreed. I almost feel like you have to apply that to yourself too when you're examining yourself, like, "Am I ready to accept the things that may not be as positive as I would hope they'd be about my own unconscious biases." Like sometimes you'll see the dirty, ugly truth of yourself in order to grow and change.
Trisha Zulic:
You know? You say dirty, ugly truth. Just know that it can be washed off. You know what I mean? That you can change the corner once you recognize it's there and that every time you recognize it happen, you can do something to make a change. You don't have to be that way. If you feel like there's something, that has to change. Again, nothing changes if nothing changes. If you keep saying, "Well, that's my bias and I'm not going to do anything about that," that's on you. But you have to do things that are healthier for not just you, but for society, for the workplace, to create the better workplaces for a better world.
I keep saying that tagline because I remember the moment where I heard it the first time and said, "I don't get it," and then I remember the moment when I got it. We spend so much time at work that if we create a better workplace where we can have conversations, dignity, and respect for each other, we'll ultimately create a better world, because people will go home and take that with them and take it out into the community and ultimately it'll become a better world.
Wendy Fong:
Exactly what happens in the workplace, you bring that home. It carries over. As soon as you get home with your partner, your kids, or whoever's at home with you, your friends, it wouldn't be productive if you were in a toxic workplace culture and you brought that negative experience or negative energy, negative feelings at home as well, and took it out on your family.
Trisha Zulic:
Right. Right. And you have to talk to your partner or your fur baby. Sometimes I find myself talking to my dog, but even my partner, I come home and I debrief. In other words, I kind of unload all the words, but he understands that he's not there to fix it, he's not there to judge it, he's there to listen and that if I need feedback, I ask for it.
Even sometimes when I don't ask for it, he'll say, "Are you being a little judgey, Trisha Zulic SHRM-SCP?" When he says it like that, he's telling me to put my business hat on and I just, I love it. You see, you could tell when your spouse has been around you long enough where they have never studied HR, but they know all the HR stuff. So when he uses Trisha Zulic SHRM-SCP, he's telling me, "Put your business hat on. Think about it. Use your competencies from the body of competency and knowledge, and really take a step back from the situation that has you frustrated and apply those competencies and come to a resolution."
Wendy Fong:
So it sounds like the importance you stress of self-reflection, especially in HR to check in not only with ourselves and also with others is so important and part of the process.
Trisha Zulic:
Absolutely, because if you don't do that check-in, who are you talking to? Yourself? You need other people's opinions. If not, you'll come up with a scenario in your own head of your belief and you may be completely disconnected from reality.
Wendy Fong:
If we're trying to make change in the workplace, you need that courage. So, what would you recommend to our listeners, how to gain that courage and how to start?
Trisha Zulic:
So it's interesting. A long time ago, when I first started in HR, one of my mentors is an employment law attorney. This is what you get when you volunteer for SHRM. You get to meet great attorneys and they tell you great wisdom. This attorney told me, he says, "Well, Trisha, when I listen to how you deal with HR things, I can just picture you with a superhero cape on and you're flying through the air, taking care of the problem." And I'm like, "huh. I like that analogy. I think I'm going to have 12 different capes and they're going to be different colors based on the situation." Those capes don't actually exist, but in my mind, I put them on to become that superhero for the moment to have the courage to do what I need to do, which is the right thing.
The other piece of that courage comes from getting fired from a job has never really hurt people. HR needs to have courage to do the right thing and not be afraid of that. I know that's easily said than done, but I think that's where it begins is, whenever we bring forward a business case about something, we have to know that it may not be embraced by all, present it in the right way, hope for the best. But also when things aren't going right, say if there's some ethical breaches within the organization, that doesn't say that you should just sit there and collect your check. You should say something have that courage.
My special cape is gold and sparkly and when I put it on my imaginary cape and I turn a certain direction, it'll turn silver and blue and it does all kinds of wonderful things. As I walk with that cape on, it drops glitter on the floor wherever I go and it gives me that sense of hold my head high. This is the right thing to do. Have the courage to have these deep conversations in the workplace. Help that manager who's struggling with their soft skills, their people skills. Help that leader understand that what they're about to do is potentially an ethical breach. Have the courage to have those conversations.
I will tell you, being a woman, a professional leader in the workplace, people ask me, "Trisha, well, how do you manage your emotions?" I said, "I don't. I do my best, but I cry when I'm passionate about something." I've been in board meetings and I'm crying and I'm making my point and getting through it as if there's no tears flowing from my eyes. And that's courage to me.
Wendy Fong:
That's very human of you to share and human resources, that's part of what we do and part of what connects us as people. Emotions. Yeah. I like what you said about doing the right thing and it's about helping each other, helping to do the right thing. When you think about superheroes, like super man or Wonder Woman, they're helping those who are in trouble and less fortunate and that's a great way to kind of visualize HR.
Trisha Zulic:
But it just gives me that sense of, I can do this. And if it doesn't go the way I want, then it is what it is. But if nothing changes, nothing changes and I must take this step, because it's the right thing to do.
Wendy Fong:
Yep. It's about taking that first step.
I do want to mention another part of this story. So we talk about racial equity in your volunteering with SHRM. Also, there was another article where you talk about your husband and he's actually a retired police officer. I kind of feel like with all that's happened with the social unrest, there is a huge divide between police officers and racial equity. I want you to talk more about the story you tell in the article about the nervousness you experienced when he asked for a discount for law enforcement when you were getting a oil change.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. When all that started and people no longer saw police as a whole as good, I was actually bothered just in general, because that's just like saying, if a company hired an HR professional and they weren't the right HR professional for their company, that all HR professionals are bad.
I know my husband. My husband has only had to pull his service gun once in his career and that was to tell someone to stop. He's only pulled the trigger once, and when I say only when I tell you why he pulled the trigger is, because when he got out of the vehicle, got out of his car, his safety was off and he shot the side of a van by accident. He's going to really be upset I told that story. There were no people involved, but he said, "People can go through their entire law enforcement career and never pull their trigger. I don't know what's going on out there." I said, "Why don't you speak?" He goes, "I'm embarrassed."
So flash forward to what was going on with me, all this social unrest, I'm super proud that he's a retired police officer after 33 years and helped so many and some of them on the worst days of their lives and some of them on the best days of their lives, helping them through those things. I was very proud of that, but that day, I had to go get my oil change because my dashboard said I was six days past due. Of course, I had to listen to the lecture of how did I let it go six days past due. "Honey, every time you start the car, it tells you to go take care of it." I said, "Let's just go."
So we drive and go to the oil change place and they're getting ready to change the oil and he says, "Oh, is there a first responder discount? Because I'm a retired police officer." I actually hit him on the leg and told him to be quiet. And he looked at me and it's like, you know when you're with somebody long enough, you can read each other's expressions. The expression had everything to do with, "I don't know if they're going to [inaudible 01:07:08] my oil cap on, I don't know if they're going to fill my car with oil." Why was my mind going to all these negative places? I was scared, because I saw the operator's response to what he said.
Remember, we're living right now in a point where we're impatient with each other. There's less tolerance and so I was just super concerned. And so we did get a discount, but when we got home, we checked to make sure that oil cap was on. Although it was there just because I had that sense of paranoia.
I don't look at people like they're inherently bad. I think everybody's inherently good, but something's going on where people aren't using all their thought process about things. So that was a very nerve wracking day.
Since then, everything about his police career, he's taken off his social media. 33 years of law enforcement he's removed from his life. That's his identity. I feel for him and he feels for the profession. He says it's hurting. He says, "I agree. We need to do something about law enforcement." They do need social workers. They said, "Somehow we became the catchall for everything and we don't have that training."
Being with him through all this, and for those that don't know, I'm a black female and he's a white male. First of all, we're an interracial couple. Second of all, he's law enforcement and I'm HR. People that know us are asking are we okay? Which is just the sweetest thing in the world. But I don't know if we are. We are as a relationship, but with everything that's going on, society's saying we shouldn't be together. That's scary, Wendy.
Wendy Fong:
In all of this, we're becoming less tolerant, which is it is scary. But how can we in HR strive towards building more tolerance with each other?
Trisha Zulic:
Take a breath, a deep breath, in through the nose, out through the mouth and listen to someone else and agree to disagree. I don't have the answer. All I can say is take a deep breath, breathe in through your nose, out through your mouth and have some patience for another human being. Because not everybody will agree with everybody. Not everybody sees things a different way. And most importantly, we don't know people's stories. We don't know how they were raised, where they were raised, what their thoughts are, what their interactions are. We don't know any of that by just having one conversation with them or just looking at them. You don't know. Stop assuming.
Wendy Fong:
And that's part of the unconscious bias, right? Don't make assumptions. Also, I feel like it's okay to disagree, right? We're all different and we're all unique individuals and we're not supposed to all think the same, but being still respectful when you have those conversations and being open to hearing all perspectives I think is important.
Trisha Zulic:
Yep. I would agree with that. I talk to my sister every day and she'll send me a picture of a blouse she wants to buy and I go, "No, no, no. You don't need that." She'll go, "Why not?" And we'll have the conversation and she says, "Well, I bought it anyway." Said, "Well, good for you." It goes back to those simple conversations. And when you think about coworkers and family, and it starts at work as well, we have to start listening to others and having that patience again and knowing that we're not all going to agree.
I have friends that love coconut. I don't like coconut and it is just as simple as that. You don't have to take sides and, "Okay. Those that like coconut go to this side of the room, but those that don't like, coconut, you go to this side of the room." It's okay. We can all stand together.
Wendy Fong:
Yeah. It's all about bringing down that divide. I feel like we've become so divided as people, but we really need to celebrate our differences rather than use those differences to bring us more apart or separate us more.
Trisha Zulic:
Wendy, it's about that intersectionality. It's that crossroads of where we cross and like the same things. It's not about, "Oh, well you're Black, go over here. You're Asian go over here." No, it's about, "Oh, you like dogs too? I like dogs too. Do you follow a certain dog thing?" I think we have more things in common than we have different and we can learn so much from each other. We've stopped taking that opportunity to learn from each other. Is it fear-driven? I don't know, but we need to go back to that. We need to go back to hearing each other's stories.
Wendy Fong:
Maybe this is the time to reconnect with old friends or even connect with new ones and just hearing everyone's side of the story, different parts of their story.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah. And getting them to talk, find something common to talk about and then branch into things that you may not agree with and have a conversation about it, but at the end, decide go, "okay. You don't like coconut? I'm good with that." I know that's oversimplified, but I really think this is simplicity. If we get back to the roots of it, we're not all going to disagree. We're not all going to like each other, but we're in this together and we have to be able to do this together.
Wendy Fong:
Exactly. And we're all human. We have to have also compassion that we're all human, we all make mistakes, we're not perfect.
Trisha Zulic:
No, by no means.
Wendy Fong:
Well, just to recap, you gave some really great advice for our listeners to kind of take back with them. In order to create change and to get through all that's going on, you really need to start by taking care of ourselves. You talked about meditating, the five whys, examining ourselves, like why we're doing it and getting to the core if we have any negative thoughts. The self SWOT analysis, I love the example you gave of watching a TV show and writing down your unconscious biases.
Also, part of taking our care of ourselves is volunteering, paying it forward, professional development to really invest in ourselves and our own growth. That could include getting a mentor, several mentors throughout our career.
And really just having conversations with people, with respect and dignity, having simple conversations, getting to know each other's stories, having patience, and rather than pick sides, let's start to bring down that divide and just come to a common place where we can get along, back to better places for a better world.
All right. So lastly, Trisha, how can our listeners find you and connect with you?
Trisha Zulic:
LinkedIn is preferred. Trisha Zulic SHRM-CP. You can find my email. It's trisha.zulic@calshrm.com. And you can find me online. I mean, it's been a journey and it's going to make me... After we're done today, I'm going to go back and look at my journey so far and see what else I can accomplish with that journey. So I'm here for you. If you are looking for someone to just talk to you, have that mental health moment that understands HR, I'm here for you. I'll make time.
Wendy Fong:
Well, thank you very much. It's been such a pleasure to have you on this show. Also, I do follow you on Instagram. I don't know if you want to share that as well, because you're quite the fashionista on Instagram.
Trisha Zulic:
I will tell you that Instagram account. It's trishazulic. It's talks about HR with passion and life and all these different things. I was sitting with the COO and she says, "Well, nobody over 40 can gain traction on Instagram." Kind of like that volunteer glove that got thrown down, I go, "No, I think it's done with hashtags and I think anybody can do it." And at the time, I started off with 31 followers and when I was done, I had close to 15,000 in less than six months all with hashtags. It was a lot of fun.
I post once in a while. I don't post too often, but I enjoy it. It was fun creating community like that, but it was also fun showing her that someone over 40 can gain traction on Instagram.
Wendy Fong:
There we go. Breaking down stereotypes about age.
Trisha Zulic:
Absolutely.
Wendy Fong:
Well, you've been such an inspiration on making change in my life and hopefully by doing so, making change in the workplace and for the world to do the right thing and for all of us to get along. So thank you.
Trisha Zulic:
Yeah. You're welcome. So if I can impact one person that makes their workplace better, better workplaces, better world.
Wendy Fong:
Well, we've come to the end of our show. Thank you listeners for listening. If you haven't already, please subscribe so you'll never miss an episode.
Celebration. By listening to this episode, you have earned one PDC or professional development credit toward your SHRM-CP or SHRM-SCP re-certification. Just enter the activity code, 21-7Q45D with the original published date of April 1st, 2021.
And be sure to rate and review the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Feel free to reach out to me Wendy. You can find me on Twitter @shrmwendy or on LinkedIn. And if you'd like to learn more about the Honest HR podcast, head over to shrm.org/honesthr.
To learn more about other SHRM podcasts, check out shrm.org/podcasts. Stay safe, everyone. Be kind to one another and peace out.
Speaker 1:
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