<p><b>Listen to this episode because there's a business case for diversity besides it being </b><b><em>the right thing </em></b><b>to do. </b>Most of the diversity and inclusion conversations have been solely focused on race and gender. But many aspects of diversity are not as visible. Diversity of thought has to be brought to the forefront. To allow for people to have different perspectives and kinds of experiences that can be shared at work. While an organization can value diversity, it doesn't necessarily make it an inclusive one. Inclusion is about creating workplaces where people can feel comfortable bringing their WHOLE selves to work. <br /><br />Leaders and managers are only as strong as the people backing and supporting them. Inclusion is what makes diversity work.</p><p><b>Key episode takeaway:</b> "We've never seen such a diverse amount of people in the labor pool as we see today. Whether it's through a generation standpoint, race, sexual orientation, social-economic status–everyone is different. When organizations can learn to capitalize on diversity, it can help them to get ahead faster."<br /><br />---<br /><b>EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING</b><br />Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! All you have to do is listen to a full mini-series to earn PDCs! All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.<br /><br />The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.<br />---<br /><b>This episode is Part 1 of a three-part series. </b>When you listen to all parts of the series, you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation.</p>
Listen to this episode because there's a business case for diversity besides it being the right thing to do. Most of the diversity and inclusion conversations have been solely focused on race and gender. But many aspects of diversity are not as visible. Diversity of thought has to be brought to the forefront. To allow for people to have different perspectives and kinds of experiences that can be shared at work. While an organization can value diversity, it doesn't necessarily make it an inclusive one. Inclusion is about creating workplaces where people can feel comfortable bringing their WHOLE selves to work.
Leaders and managers are only as strong as the people backing and supporting them. Inclusion is what makes diversity work.
Key episode takeaway: "We've never seen such a diverse amount of people in the labor pool as we see today. Whether it's through a generation standpoint, race, sexual orientation, social-economic status–everyone is different. When organizations can learn to capitalize on diversity, it can help them to get ahead faster."
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EARN SHRM RECERTIFICATION PDCs FOR LISTENING
Honest HR podcast episodes will help you build your competencies while you earn professional development credits (PDCs) toward your SHRM-CP/SHRM-SCP recertification! All you have to do is listen to a full mini-series to earn PDCs! All relevant details, including the Activity IDs, are provided during the podcast recording itself.
The Honest HR podcast is only one of SHRM's podcast offerings. And currently, it is the only one approved for recertification PDCs.
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This episode is Part 1 of a three-part series. When you listen to all parts of the series, you are eligible to receive PDCs for your participation.
Callie Zipple:
Hey everybody and welcome back to Honest HR. This is your host, Callie Zipple, Field Service Director with SHRM. Excited to be here with a new mini series, focusing on diversity and inclusion. If you are a avid listener of the podcast, you know that we have introduced mini series so that you can get professional development credits for listening. So excited to start off another mini series on diversity and inclusion with my guest, Jeremy. So Jeremy, I'm excited you're here. I know this is something near and dear to your heart. D&I is something I think your business that you founded, right? I think you're the founder or you own your own business. It talks a lot about diversity. So tell us about yourself, correct me if I was wrong, what you do, where you're at, your whole background, everything. Give us a little bit of an intro to you.
Jeremy York:
Well, thank you Callie for having me on today. I appreciate it. My name is Jeremy York and the Lead Consult President of InvigorateHR. I'm also the State Director for HR Indiana SHRM. I've been a long supporter of SHRM for many, many years and I believe in what SHRM does, it's certainly has helped me with my profession and being successful in the things that I do. So InvigorateHR, we are an HR consulting firm and we pretty much do everything underneath the HR umbrella. But some of the areas that we specialize in do have to do with diversity and inclusion. And when we do training and development initiatives, being able to help HR functions at different types of organizations be at their best. And so, as you said, you were right, diversity and inclusion is something that's near and dear to our business. And actually both this morning, and this afternoon, I was engaging in other presentations where we were talking about diversity and inclusion and what that really means for the workforce today and for us in the future.
Callie Zipple:
Cool. And for the record listeners, I did not even pay Jeremy to talk so well about SHRM. Jeremy and I actually met via his involvement at the state council level for HR Indiana. And I have had just a blast working with Jeremy and I can really see his passion for what we do from an HR perspective, from what he does from a diversity and inclusion perspective. And of course, all things SHRM. So really excited to have you here today, Jeremy, to kick this mini series off. I think you're a wonderful person to start that for us.
Jeremy York:
Thanks Callie. Yeah, one thing I believe, and I live by when people say, "If you do what you love, you never work a day in your life." And I'm all about HR and I love what we do and how we impact the workforce and people.
Callie Zipple:
That's so authentically you, because I've never seen you not enjoy what it is that you do. Thank you again for being here. And as I mentioned, this mini series is going to be about diversity and inclusion. And I have to say that when we first introduced Honest HR and I started talking about the podcast within my network and started getting some guests and topic suggestions, diversity and inclusion was one that came up and I'll be honest I wasn't feeling very competent in myself to have this conversation, because it's so big. It's so meaty.
But then I met Jeremy and knowing that this is so near and dear to your heart made me feel like bringing you on is a great place to start the conversation, and so I'm thrilled to be kicking this off with you. So I want to start with the business case for D&I. So as we become bigger and better and badder HR professionals, we talk about how important business acumen is to our success. So as we build out these D&I initiatives, how can we also build out a business case for them so that we can bring all of our business leaders and CEOs and executives along with us on the path to D&I at our organizations?
Jeremy York:
Yeah, that's a great question Callie. And I think a lot of HR professionals ask themselves the same thing on how do they really get their organizations to buy into diversity and inclusion initiatives. And the fact of the reality is that we've been talking about diversity and inclusion for a long time, and what we really don't talk about as far as diversity and inclusion is what is the impact to the organization? Yes, we get it. We know being a diverse and inclusive organization is the right thing do, and we should always help people feel welcomed and included in the workplace, but you know what, when we, as HR folks are sometimes reporting to the CEO or to the CFO or whomever, it's difficult for us to translate that into a language that they can understand, right? Because we get accused of being maybe a little too touchy feely, you're fluffy and with employees and those kinds of things.
And when these leaders of organizations really want hard facts or numbers, to be able to do that. And so being able to help those folks understand the true business case for diversity and its impact on the organization is probably what's most important for us to be doing. And part of that is helping them understand the impact of diversity and inclusion and how that translates to dollars and cents. So we know that diversity and inclusion helps us be the best we can be at attracting talent, retaining talent, also reducing cost or turnover because we get people to buy into the organization, we get them connected to the organization and doing those things. But what we don't necessarily convey is that organizations who have a diverse and an inclusive culture or practice diversity inclusion outperform other employers by about 25%, if you can believe that.
And that's pretty significant. I mean, when you think about impacting the organization or the bond by 25%, that's pretty amazing. And Diversity Inc. they did a survey or a study over a 10 year period of publicly traded companies and looked at them and said, "Okay, these companies, they really embraced diversity and inclusion," and then measured their profits against folks that other companies that don't and found that they were outperforming them and they were doing something significant because of that. A big part of it is that when employees don't feel like they work for a diverse or inclusive organizations, they're looking for other opportunities elsewhere where they can feel more included. Right? So here's another business case is that we realize that over 2 million people leave organizations each year because of not feeling included or feeling like they are valued in the organization regarding.
Callie Zipple:
Say that number again, Jeremy.
Jeremy York:
Yeah. 2 million.
Callie Zipple:
Wow.
Jeremy York:
2 million people a year. Right? And so they're leaving organizations because of that. Now here's how you can get some people's attention, right? That is the equivalent of about $64 billion each year. That's a lot of money. And even to give people perspective of what that looks like, that $64 billion each year is the equivalent combined revenues of Google, Goldman Sachs, Starbucks, and Amazon.com.
Callie Zipple:
Combined?
Jeremy York:
Combined.
Callie Zipple:
Wow.
Jeremy York:
Crazy. $64 billion. And so people, companies are losing money because they're losing talent that's going out the door because they're not feeling like they're inclusive. So those organizations that do have a good hold on a good diversity and inclusion program, they are the ones Callie, that see turnover kind of go down, they see retention go up, they see engagement go up, which all goes back to dollars and cents because we know that people are more productive when they're feeling like they're valued, they'll go above and beyond.
We're not wasting or spending money in having to do recruitment efforts because we know it's expensive to be able to replace someone, especially if we're replacing people that are in higher compensated positions for that talent.
Callie Zipple:
Right.
Jeremy York:
So, those are the pieces that we as HR folks have to look at and say, "Let me communicate that to the leadership of the organizations." And let's put some numbers to it, some actual dollars and cents and say, "This is how the diverse and inclusion impacts the bottom line." Besides being just the right thing to do, it's also a great financial decision and a financial strategy for an organization.
Callie Zipple:
And what's so interesting and so timely is that I listened to a CEO this morning at an event that I was at say, "When I get numbers presented to me, I look, and if they're red, I'm concerned; if they're black, I'm not so concerned." So it's really interesting that numbers and dollars resonate as much as they do with our senior leadership.
Jeremy York:
Yeah. And I think a big part of it is that we're all taught to measure something. And we've always been in HR trying to figure out how we measure what we do and the impact to the organization. And then we have to get better at that, especially to be able to get leadership's attention on doing these kinds of things. Yes, it's a little bit more challenging to put dollars and cents to this, but it can be done. And just to be able to have those kinds of conversations with leadership and get them to buy into these things is just the first step. And then for them to start seeing the results of what that means overall, because the things we do in HR really do have financial impact. We're not a cost center where we're just spending money. We're actually trying to help organizations save money and help the organization retain its people and retain its most expensive investment, which is its people.
Callie Zipple:
Absolutely. And I think one of the things that resonates with me as I talk with HR practitioners or business professionals about strategy initiatives, is that a lot of the initiatives that we implement at the organizational level have D&I undertones. So to your point, recruitment, retention, you can very easily spin the conversation to include a D&I initiative, workplace flexibility, same sort of thing, right? If you have a more work flex arrangement, you can attract different individuals to your company, whether it's from another state or another location, physically a lot of conversations we're already having. And by the way, that have investment behind it from our executive team, has those D&I undertones. So it's important for us to recognize that as HR professionals too.
Jeremy York:
Well, and I think it's innate in us because we learned very early on, perhaps in our childhood, by our parents or teachers or whomever, there's the old adage, right, "That two heads are better than one." And that's kind of the thing. And there's a reason behind that. It's because we can't always do things on their own and we also want another person's perspective or opinion. So when we think about recruitment or we think about training, or we think about projects or new initiatives we're doing in the organization, we need all of those different perspectives, all of those different people to come and apply that at the organization that will help us give a competitive edge in the business and what we're trying to compete against in our competitors, in the competitive marketplace. So that's really where we get to some of those diverse and diversity and inclusion undertones is that the reason that we want great talent is because all the talent's different and we're bringing all that talent together.
Callie Zipple:
Absolutely. And so I think the next question, or the next topic I want to touch on is the fact that HR professionals or SHRM chapters or SHRM in general has been having this conversation for a long time. Right? So HR knows that D&I is important, but our business leaders and/or managers are a little bit further behind us. So how can we help them broaden the way that they think about their people, how they think about D&I, and how it's more than just race and gender and how can we bring them along on that journey as we take that as our organizations?
Jeremy York:
Yeah. That's so true is that for the last several years, when we say diversity, people just automatically resonate race and gender with that word, and diversity is so much more than that because a lot of aspects of diversity are not visible. Yes, I can look at someone and perhaps tell their gender or tell their race or, and those kind of things. But a lot of the things that we're not able to tell about a person are on the inside, whether it's their intellect or whether it's their emotions or whatever it is, those are the things that we don't necessarily automatically know. And that's why when we help these managers understand that it's more than the physical traits of diversity and more about the nonphysical traits. And right now, one of the topics that we're having a lot of conversation about out there is diversity of thought or thought diversity.
And this idea of diversity of thought really is kind of becoming the next frontier on the diversity and inclusion front, because it embraces everyone. Now, when we think about just a regular, I don't know, a regular definition of diversity and one that SHRM uses a lot that I see is it's our collective mixture of our differences and our similarities. That includes things such as our individual characteristics, things like our values, beliefs, experiences, backgrounds, preferences, all of those kinds of things. Now that is true diversity in itself, which isn't focused just on race, gender, but focused on the whole person and what they're able to bring to the table. So those things that we're not used to, such as the belief and values of an individual, family status, their education, or even their work style preferences, we can't see those things, but we know they exist and that shapes someone's perspective, right?
It shapes how they might interact with people, how they might solve a problem, how they might interact, or how they might see something differently. And that's the stuff that we need to embrace, those perspectives and experiences. And that's what diversity thought is really all about. It's this concept that we know really intuitively and we've experienced it throughout our lives, because we're always collaborating with other people and seeking different perspectives, and trying to realize that we don't always have the answer. So when we can go to other people or engage experts or someone that's just different than us to be able to get their perspective, we know that we're looking at the entire big picture within thought diversity. But thought diversity is trying to help managers say there's more than one way to do something. I think a lot of times in organizations, we get stagnant, right?
"This is the way we've always done it," we've heard that out there. Or, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" But there are things that we need to do to be able to be competitive in the market, to be competitive with people. And sometimes we have to change because yes, it may be working, but perhaps it's not the most efficient, or it's not the most effective or catch this, maybe it's not even the most relevant way to do something, and we need to hop on that bandwagon and be more forward thinking and progressive. That's what diversity of thought is when managers can begin to embrace that people have different perspectives and can bring that to help us be at our best that's what we do. Now, what's interesting is that within organizations, as they look at diversity of thought, they have to have a willingness.
So it can't be a stifling organization that says everyone has to do it just like this. It's got to be a safe place where people can come and share their ideas and share their perspectives, even welcoming new approaches, or looking at ways to do something different. I'm sure as HR folks, we've all heard, or we've even experienced ourselves where we've made suggestions and someone shot that down, "Well, we tried that in the past, it didn't work." "Well maybe the last time we tried that was five years ago and the world is very different now and maybe it'll work now. We don't know, but we should probably look at it." We don't want to just shut people down. We want to let them know that we value what their input is and even though we may not agree exactly with what they're saying, it is a starting point for us to be able to maybe take that idea and hone it even more and explore it and see what we can do.
So there's got to be that willingness in the environment. There's also got to be a readiness. And what I mean by that is the company's got to have a commitment to developing its people and developing personal interpersonal skills that help facilitate learning amongst them, which means that it's okay for us to learn from each other. We've got to have communication and dialogue with each other. We've got to handle conflict or I should say when we do when we incur that in the workplace, ways that we share information, or we problem solve, those are all the things I'm talking about, where we have to be ready for that type of dialogue.
And then we also have to have an opportunity. Organizations or departments or managers have to give people the opportunity to collaborate, and have that as expectation that they are to work together and understand who needs to talk to whom about what, when they engage that. So those are the pieces that really help us look past diversity as being just race and gender and embraced that diversity is really that collective mixture of our similarities and differences.
Callie Zipple:
The thing that I think resonates with me the most out of everything that you just said is how driven this idea is by the culture of the organizations that we work at. And I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations with HR professionals who say, "I want to implement a initiative, but my senior leadership just isn't buying into it. What should I do?" And sometimes I think we need to put our big people pants on and leave. If we feel very strongly about a D&I initiative and we want to work for a culture or in an organization that supports this and our senior leaders or our managers just aren't going to do it, that might not be the right organization for you. And I got to tell you, you probably have some employees feeling the same way. So it's really about finding an organization that aligns with what you're trying to do and what you want to do, and sometimes that means leaving where we're at.
Jeremy York:
Absolutely. And we can try to start to make the change from within, but ultimately if leadership is not on board and it's not something that they see as being a priority or something they feel is really important to ingrain in the culture and immerse that in the culture, then perhaps that isn't the right place for us. Right.
Callie Zipple:
To your point, you have to carry the torch for a little while, right. You have to really live it for a little while within your organization. You can't just hear no once and say, "Okay, cool, bye." But you have to at least suggest it and carry that torch for a while. And if it's just not catching on and you're getting push back and you're feeling all these things, and you feel strongly about needing a culture like this to be more successful or more effective, then that's when you have to make that decision.
Jeremy York:
Well, and I also think businesses that really don't invest in diversity and inclusion or don't see it as something that should be part of culture is that maybe sustainable because if we look at the workforce and the different folks that make up the workforce, we've never seen such a diverse amount of people in the labor pool as we do today. And whether it's-
Callie Zipple:
It's only going to continue, right. It's only going to get more diverse.
Jeremy York:
Yeah, exactly. I mean, whether it's through, just from a generation standpoint, whether it's through race, whether it's through sexual orientation, whether it's through social economic status, all of these other kinds of things that we might see, everyone's different. And even though we may look alike for some folks doesn't mean that we've had the same experiences and this is where organizations need to learn to capitalize on this diversity and this different perspective, because that's going to help them get ahead faster. And so companies that embrace it, obviously if they're outperforming by 25% on average, they're the ones moving faster, right? And they're the ones that are bringing more people on to the table, the best and the brightest. And we can look at companies like that. Companies like Google, companies like Zappos who embrace diversity and inclusion. We're seeing that's where the talent is flocking to people want to work there.
And right now it is the worker's market. We have more jobs available than we have people. So we have to be smart about that and say, "Hey, diversity and inclusion..." Especially to millennial generation and as well as the new generation up coming into the workplace, generation Z, diversity and inclusion, that's a no brainer for them. It has to be part of who they are. They make it part of who they are. They are social justice warriors, and they want to work in places that feel that way as well, that resonate with that belief. So we have to get on board with that.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. And you sort of just segued us perfectly into the next part of our conversation. And it's the idea of inclusion and you alluded to this right in the beginning, when you were giving us the business case, 2 million people leave their jobs every year, because I think you said every year, every year, because they don't feel included. So how important truly is this idea of inclusion as it relates to diversity? And why do we continue to say diversity and inclusion? Right. How important truly is that second piece?
Jeremy York:
Yeah. I think the second piece is critical and it's funny how, we've added inclusion. We say diversity and inclusion because yes, we can value diversity in what it is, but it doesn't necessarily make us inclusive of that. Inclusive and having inclusion is another component of creating those workplaces where people can bring, might like to use this term, their whole selves to work. As employees, we want to go to work every day and we want to go someplace where we feel safe. We want to go someplace where we feel respected, where we feel value. That's what people are looking for. We want to be able to bring our whole selves to work because it's who we are as people. And when we can't be our whole selves or our true selves, it doesn't allow us to be at our best, and our best game.
So organizations need to create environments or cultures that allow people to do that. And part of it is being inclusive, inclusive of all people. Now that means that we have to really help people understand that yes, people may look different, they may act different, they may talk differently, et cetera, but that doesn't mean that they're bad people just because they're different. Doesn't mean that we should be afraid of them, and that's what happens. So there's this little thing called unconscious bias or implicit bias. Some people call it, and those are some of the attitudes and stereotypes that we naturally have that affect kind of our understanding and our actions toward people and the decisions that we make. And a lot of people say, "Oh, well, I'm very inclusive. I'm welcoming of all people." Well, that's great, but you still have unconscious bias.
We all do and it all impacts on how we treat people because of it's been of our background or our culture or something like that. So that unconscious bias sometimes prohibits us from being inclusive because we're afraid it creates fear in us. We're afraid of what we don't know, and if we're not familiar with something, we have a tendency to be afraid of it. Now, when we were kids, we weren't really afraid of things. We were very inquisitive until we are kind of taught you shouldn't be inquisitive. You should be afraid. Don't talk to strangers. Right? Yeah. So we have that. So we've got to kind of get that curiosity back and realize that to be inclusive we've got to be curious. We've got to be welcoming of all people. And really when we talk about inclusion, people say, "Well, I don't even know what inclusion means."
"What do you mean by that?" Well, inclusion is really kind of what we would say is an achievement of a work environment, where everyone is treated fairly and they're respected. Where they all have equal access to opportunities and resources where you can contribute to the teens in full capacity and really help with the organization's success. To say that every person in the organization from the lowest level to the highest level, all has a job to do that makes this company successful, that's inclusion, where everyone's valued. And yes, it's different again for every organization, but the thing is that if we want to say that inclusion's important to us and inclusion is something that I don't know, we want to practice, we have to create environments that are welcoming or that teach that or help people understand it.
Where we create an environment where it's okay to be different, and it's not looked down upon that you think of something differently, or you are different, have a different background from a different part of the world, or what have you. Where we actually begin to separate those differences, because we know those differences actually make us better because now we're exposed to something we were never exposed before, because we didn't have that experience. Right. But we can learn that from someone else which adds value to us and the team, it helps us to be able to understand how to be respectful. We all want to be respected and we should respect other people, but a lot of people, and we were always taught, that "Treat people the way you want to be treated."
But I like to challenge that thought or that paradigm and say, "Treat people the way they want to be treated" because people want to be treated differently. The way I want to be treated doesn't mean you want to be treated that way because we're different and we come from different backgrounds or have different perspectives. So we have to be respectful when people want to be treated differently or someone is offended by something that we say, even though we're not offended by it, but we're not in their shoes. So we just have to be more open in trying to put ourselves in other people's place and experience that.
Callie Zipple:
That's so interesting because as you were talking, and as I was thinking about an inclusive organization, I thought to myself it sounds to me, an inclusive organization would be I'm walking down the hallway and everybody's saying hello to me, because that to me sounds welcoming and all this other sort of stuff. But then you just said, "Treat other people the way that they want to be treated," and not everybody needs a hello or a wave all the time when they're interacting with somebody. So it's so funny how we think one thing and then when we dive in deeper in our own minds that even shifts for us as well around this D&I initiative and thought process.
Jeremy York:
Absolutely. And I think a good point that I might be the type of person that if someone didn't speak to me or say hello, I would be like, "Well, I wonder what's wrong with them" where someone else would be like, "Nothing. They're just minding their business just like I'm minding my business. I don't know them." I mean, but everyone has that different perspective and that's what makes us so valuable. Right? That's what makes it so priceless in that sense. And that's why it's important that as we're in the organizations, as we're HR professionals that we lead by example, and that we show an interest in other people and we show that we respect differences, and that we help drive some of that positive change in the organization. And that might mean as we lead by example, that we have to be a spokesperson or an ally for issues, diversity issues that may not be our own, right.
That it may not be something that directly impacts us, but yet we believe that it's important and so we support that and we lead by example in that sense. Another big part about inclusion is creating that environment where we feel like we belong and there is a belonging with all of that. And I have to say, and give a shout out to one of our chapters here in Indiana, which is Michiana SHRM. They held an event which was called Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging, and I thought that was pretty amazing that they added the word belonging because that's kind of the next step of inclusion.
When you start including people or creating an environment of inclusion, people start to feel like they belong. They start to connect. They start to have a relationship with their coworkers and the organization becomes real for them, which impacts their levels of engagement. It impacts their productivity. It impacts retention. All of these different things that we were talking about that really have numbers associated with them if we look at it the right way and say that, having this sense of belonging and in, and making people feel included so they can develop that sense of belonging is important. Right? Because I mean, none of us want to be outcast.
Callie Zipple:
No. And I feel like to include someone is an action, to feel like they belong is intrinsic. So it really, truly is taking it to that next step.
Jeremy York:
Absolutely. And when we think about the work environment and people who are in the work environment, and we understand that millennials, they're our largest generation now. They're making up a large part of the workforce. For them, as I mentioned, inclusion and diversity is critical. And it's interesting because when there was a survey that was done where they interviewed or asked millennials about diversity inclusion initiatives and how they feel about their employer said 83% of them that they surveyed say, "That they are really actively engaged in their work and with their company, when they believe the organization fosters an inclusive culture. 83% are actively engaged. That's huge when you think about the engagement levels, 81% of them feel that they can stay true to themselves in an organization, if it incorporates diversity and inclusion so they can bring their whole selves to work.
Callie Zipple:
Which is so important for that generation, by the way.
Jeremy York:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah.
Jeremy York:
And I think really in our heart of hearts for everyone, regardless of what generation that we're from, we all want to be included and we all want to be part of the team. We all want to feel important. So why don't we work hard toward creating cultures that do that as opposed to cultures where we shut people down, or we don't want people to bring new ideas to the table or we need to like belittle people or things like that. And I think we have to get to the root of those problems that if we are at an organization where that is part of the culture, why is that it? And I will say 9 times out of 10, it's fear, fear of what we don't know, fear of what we are kind of afraid of if you will.
So I think, really relating to the belonging component and inclusion and diversity and going back to this whole thing around thought diversity, I think it's important that we look at it as a mindset, an organizational kinds of component. And there was something that I read on Forbes.com that was regarding thought diversity and just it was one thing. It was seven times that you aren't embracing thought diversity from that. A few of the biggest things I took away from that, one of them was it said that, "When we focus on only things that disrupt us, when we're just being reactive, as opposed to being proactive." But the biggest thing that really stuck out to me more than anything, Callie that really, I think we all can benefit from remembering and learning is that seven signs that you aren't embracing thought diversity and one of them, the biggest one was, "When vulnerability is viewed as a weakness."
Callie Zipple:
Yep.
Jeremy York:
So let me just say that one more time, "When vulnerability is viewed as a weakness." And I think in a lot of organizations, vulnerability is viewed as a weakness. I think we were taught that a lot of times in school for some of us that are part of the baby boomer or the generation X component that when you got called on, you were being vulnerable. And if you didn't know the answer, or you felt like you were wrong or something like that. Right. So we have to kind of shift our viewpoint, that paradigm and say being vulnerable is a learning opportunity. It's an opportunity for us to be better. It's an opportunity for us to grow that says that we aren't perfect, that we still have room to be able to develop ourselves. And that just really hit home to me about the importance of being vulnerable when it comes to diversity and really trying to understand other people's perspective. And especially when we're trying to create an environment that people can start to feel like they belong to.
Callie Zipple:
Well. And it comes back to how our organizations and how our managers or people managers treat failure. Right.
Jeremy York:
Right.
Callie Zipple:
If I know I'm going to get punished for taking a chance and failing, how likely is it that I'm going to raise my hand and take that chance? Not likely, right.
Jeremy York:
No, not at all.
Callie Zipple:
That's so true.
Jeremy York:
And you know, when it really should be, when we have failures, the question should be asked a more proactive approach is what did you learn from this? How would you do it differently? How would we keep this from happening again? And that's the thing. And when we think about approaching our employees and our leaders in the organization saying, "How can we make the company more inclusive?" And sometimes it's just helping them understand what inclusion really is and what that means for people. Because we have a tendency to live in our own bubble, and we have a tendency to be on our own microcosm where we just don't see things differently, and part of it is because we've never experienced certain things that other people have, and that shapes what they do. And so that's why it's important for us to include them and to understand where they've been, where they've come from and how they contribute to the organization.
Callie Zipple:
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. As I mentioned, this is going to be part of a larger mini series, and some of the things we talked about here today is going to be touched on, on some future episodes. We're going to be talking about generations in the workplace. We're going to be talking about organizations that need to be comfortable having those difficult conversations, and creating a space for inclusion and failure, and all of those other things in order for D&I to truly work within our organization. So Jeremy, I just want to thank you so much for your time. As I mentioned, this is near and dear to your heart. The organization that you work with is heavy, supporting diversity and inclusion. So if there's any of our listeners out there who want to connect and continue the conversation with you, how can they reach out?
Jeremy York:
Absolutely. Well, they can find me on LinkedIn at Jeremy York and they can also find me on Twitter. My Twitter handle is @YorkJeremy, or you can also visit www.invigoratehr.com and connect with us that way as well.
Callie Zipple:
Wonderful. Well, thank you again, Jeremy, for being here. I'm so happy that you were our guest to kick off this mini series. For those who want to connect with me, feel free. Again, my name's Callie Zipple. You can find me on LinkedIn using that first and last name. I'm also on Twitter and Instagram @SHRMCallieZ. As always feel free to visit our shrm.org/honesthr website, we've got a whole bunch of stuff out there for you, including guest suggestions and topic suggestions. And again, thank you so much for being a listener and we hope you'll come back for future episodes of Honest HR.
This episode is part one of mini series four focused on diversity and inclusion. Next week's episode will be part two of three. We'll provide you with a SHRM professional development or PDC code for listening at the end of the final episode of this mini series. And you must listen to all parts of the mini series in order to use the PDC code towards your SHRM recertification. So please come back for the rest of this mini series and thanks again for being SHRM certified and as always for listening to Honest HR.