Callie and Deanna talk with Stephanie Mardell, VP of People at Button, about building teams and the importance of developing a thoughtful, intentional recruitment process in a start-up environment. They also get into managers--the people who make or break employee engagement and how it's important to be a generalist AND a specialist. Oh, and one more thing, grit.
Callie and Deanna talk with Stephanie Mardell, VP of People at Button, about building teams and the importance of developing a thoughtful, intentional recruitment process in a start-up environment. They also get into managers--the people who make or break employee engagement and how it's important to be a generalist AND a specialist. Oh, and one more thing, grit.
Kelly:
Hi everyone. And welcome back I'm Kelly.
Deanna:
And I'm Deanna, and this is Honest HR, a podcast from SHRM, where we get real with HR professionals.
Kelly:
We want to create a safe space for people to passionately share their HR stories and insights.
Deanna:
Because this is a safe space and because we are passionate, we understand our approach, our topics and our stories aren't for everyone.
Kelly:
So come, if you're interested. Stay if you like what we're throwing down. We like you and appreciate you either way.
Deanna:
All right. Let's jump into this week's topic. Do you want to kick it off for us, Kelly?
Kelly:
Yeah. So rather than a topic, we have a guest. We are with Stephanie Mardell and she will be talking about a topic specifically, but I want to take a second to introduce her first and then we'll jump into the topic afterwards. Stephanie Mardell is the VP of People at Button, which is located in New York City. Button powers Mobile partnerships that are faster, simpler and perform better. Stephanie has over a decade of recruiting and people, operations experience and thrives in a startup environment, building admirable teams during periods of significant growth. Welcome Stephanie.
Stephanie:
Thank you. I'm so excited to chat with you all today.
Kelly:
Yeah, I'm excited too. And so the topic that we're going to be talking about with Stephanie is building teams. And as I mentioned with her bio there, she thrives in a startup environment. And so I want to turn it over to Stephanie to talk about how she approaches building teams in an environment that basically starts with nothing. So Stephanie, tell us a little bit about your team building experience.
Stephanie:
Well, thank you. I think one of the first things I think about is how the team needs to work together and for the most productive and high performing teams, you usually need a combination of skill sets and expertise. And the way that I always like to think about it is you need a collection of pioneers, settlers, and city planners. And the pioneers are those who love charting new territory. They are the folks that are driven by innovation, by painting on that blank canvas. And you need those folks because they bring that energy and enthusiasm and curiosity, and are able to actually define ambiguity easier than most.
You also need the settlers, because the settlers, they tend to come a little bit after the folks who've pioneered the territory and they lay out the plans and maybe put in a little bit of structure. They're able to think through what is needed and needed from a foundational standpoint in order to grow the city.
Then finally, you really need what I like to call city partners. Those are the folks that are thinking about how to optimize. They're thinking about how traffic should flow, how to use resources the most effectively and the combination of all of those people and all of those skill sets is ultimately what makes really amazing teams. And it's something that has helped guide me when I think about recruiting and thinking about the roles that we need to have within organization, especially within the startup world.
Kelly:
So let me ask you a question about the three areas that you've just defined on your own. You've got the pioneers, the settlers and the city planners. What happens in your experience, because I'm sure this has happened, if somebody sees themself as a pioneer, but they're really a settler or they're really a city planner. How do you maneuver through getting people in the right spots on a team?
Stephanie:
Yeah, I think one of the things that I think is always good to have within a team is general focus and openness around who is going to be best suited for what. And I think early on in a startup or in the earliest stages of company, sometimes you have to do it all.
Sometimes you have to play the pioneer, the settler and the city planner because there's no one else to do it. But I think naturally over time people will gravitate to what they really enjoy doing. And sometimes that is thinking about charting that new territory or painting that blank canvas and then you will see others that naturally gravitate towards really building out those plans. I think it all first starts with a really clear job description and an understanding of the outcomes that you desire and then understanding the motivations and what folks get really excited by on a day to day basis.
Deanna:
So Stephanie, I actually have a question for you and I just want to say before I get into my question and just to tell all the listeners that I'm totally fan girling right now, I got to read an article that you were interviewed for, I believe was Thrive Global. I was just super inspired by it. So hopefully that doesn't freak you out, but very cool. And this is an honest podcast. So I felt like I need to throw some honesty out there, but along the same lines of that, would you say there needs to be, when you're trying to build the best teams, does there need to be a certain amount of pioneers or settlers or really just a mix is the best.
Stephanie:
Great question. I think you need to have a mix, right? And sometimes you learn as you go and you learn by doing. And I think that's one of the most exciting parts about being part of a growing company is things change so quickly and you start understanding know where gaps are within the business and what problems need to be solved. Then you can actually, once you identify the problems that need to be solved, you can put the right people at the right problems. And I think for every organization it's a little bit different, but I always like to say the highest performing teams tend to have a mix of skill sets.
If I had a team of everyone who is exactly like me, we probably would get a lot of stuff done, but it probably wouldn't be the most effective team overall and we probably would bump heads and we would over plan and maybe we would not be able to deliver because each one of us would try to maybe control the same things.
And so I like to say a nice, healthy mix of skill sets and styles and approaches is sometimes the best way to design a team.
Kelly:
This is Kelly again. I have a question that sort of builds off of what you just said. I know you've spent some time in recruiting. I'm curious as to how you approach the recruitment process for startups. And honestly, I've never worked in the startup. I know that it is a very fast paced and quickly changing environment. So, I'm just curious how you've managed to find the right individual that fit within that structure and for them to be successful. Can you tell us a little bit about your recruiting strategy for startup?
Stephanie:
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I think is really important for any company to have, whether you're a small startup or a larger company, is a well defined and clear interview process. When you think about the candidate experience, you want it to be as informative, clear, and supportive as possible. When you think about the candidate, the candidate will oftentimes be incredibly nervous or in some cases you might be doing a ton of passive recruiting, right. Or active recruiting for passive candidates.
And I think it's really important to design a recruiting process that is also reflective of your culture, things that you value. I often tell interviewers and our interview panel that, "You are a brand ambassador of our company." And so every interview is a reflection and a window into how we operate as a company.
The first thing I always do is make sure that we establish a clear and consistent process. So one we can evaluate candidates and in a really structured and and calibrated way, because the last thing that we want is to evaluate different candidates on different things for the same role. Here at Button, we implement structured interviewing, which is essentially asking the same questions for the same role across all candidates.
The reason why this is really important is because it allows you to understand over time the differences between a bad answer, a mediocre answer, and an awesome answer. And I think that's really important to be able to understand whether or not that person is going to be a great fit. Now, there are a ton of other things that you can do to build out a great recruiting process, but I think it starts with that clear and consistent process that also is a reflection of your brand and your values as an organization.
Kelly:
For our listeners who may or may not be young professionals, what would you suggest they focus on as far as their resume or their interview process is concerned for the startup environment? Because I think startups approach the resume finding and the interviews a little bit differently than say your large corporate environments, so a lot of our young professionals and a lot of our listeners perhaps are looking for that environment. That's a little bit different. {It's a little bit out there. So, how can they find themselves getting a foot in the door to the startup community?
Stephanie:
I think there are a couple of ways to pursue a career in the startup world. If it hasn't already been part of your career. One is I think being both a generalist and a specialist, I like to, you probably heard at some point being T-shaped right. And I think in startup world, we oftentimes, we set a really high standard in that we want folks who can tackle anything and everything, but also be a specialist in quite a few things and not to make it really difficult and challenging to hire. But at the same time, it is sometimes what is what attracts people to the startup world is you almost get like an MBA every year.
You get one MBA on one thing, every time, every year, you are at a startup. And being able to demonstrate your ability to pick things up quickly, to define ambiguity and also demonstrate that grit. And I think sometimes you can't necessarily see that from a resume, but you can certainly share it with your story. And I think a lot of times the resume is simply an introduction, but the moment you have an opportunity to talk to someone is really where you have that opportunity to control the message and the story you're telling.
Deanna:
Yeah. And if I can just chime in here, I was actually having a conversation late last week about this whole definition of grit. And we were talking about how sometimes their resume may not speak to every qualification or every skill set, but if they can demonstrate that they have that grit and they're willing to learn and willing to take in everything that maybe if they're not 100% qualify the grit itself, they can learn anything and they'll be a sponge. So I like that you brought that up because I think that's something that's not always looked for, but I feel like in a startup that's, that's something that's really important.
Kelly:
Yeah. I think it's important just to show how you're willing to get in there and get your hands dirty. Not only that, but you're also willing and comfortable failing, not that we expect there to be failures in the startup community, but we expect there to be failures in pretty much any organization. So how do you roll with that? How do you improve on what happened and how can you take that and learn from it and turn it into a positive for both yourself and the organization? So I really like that notion, I think that's really important to our listeners to know.
Stephanie:
I was just going to say, I think one of you, I think you hit the nail on the head with grit is really all about being able to problem solve through new and novel situations. And I think within the startup world, you're dealing with new and novel situations all of the time you're building a business, you're exploring uncharted territory, you're having to create new systems and structures. And there are a lot of organizations that have done this for decades, but every organization is unique and you can't necessarily apply the exact same solution to every organization that you're within.
One of the things that I've learned along the way is that there are absolutely themes that companies share. Every single company faces conversations with their employees around compensation. And that's oftentimes a really difficult one, but the same response or the same approach to how you address or focus your team around compensation is going to be different at every, at any at every company that you're going to be at. It'll never be the same.
Kelly:
Yeah, I like that. And I think sometimes if I'm thinking about my own path, as we were talking about getting our hands dirty and just being ready and willing to take on anything, there's a lot of things that I've done in my career that I wouldn't have necessarily defined as building my grit. But the reality is that it absolutely was. At one of my organizations, I was responsible for actually taking drug tests. Actually having people pee in a cup and test them, and frankly, that's part of my grit. That's part of who I am and how I've learned and where I've come from.
As people and interview ease are thinking of ways to answer questions, to prove to a startup environment, I'm willing to do anything. It's those sorts of things that maybe you didn't think of at the time as a personality builder that you could absolutely spin as part of your overall grit.
Deanna:
So Stephanie, I have a question I want to shift a little bit over to our managers. So I've seen a lot, at least recently over the last couple years, a lot of managers get to a level within an organization simply because they've been there for so many years. And so the next step is just to be promoted into a manager role, not necessarily because they would make a good people manager, or that they actually even want to manage people. So my question is how can we elevate these new managers be better leaders and to build better teams?
Stephanie:
First thing that I would love to share is that I think the biggest mistake organizations can make is promoting or transferring individuals into management roles who are not ready, or have no desire to manage. Because when you start there, you're really starting with a very low bar. And I think here at Button, we've actually taken a different approach. We've actually said, "You know what? We are going to invest in leaders from the very beginning."
So as early as 30 people, we started our leadership and management training program. And the reason why we did that was because we wanted to make sure that we were able to set clear expectations around what we wanted and our managers [inaudible 00:16:28] the skill sets that they needed to practice. And for those who are interested in management, we also wanted to provide an opportunity for them to gain more exposure into those skill sets so that they can start practicing early. So that when they are ready to move into a management role, they already are equipped with some tools to be able to effectively manage not only the performance of their team, but the individual growth path that they will have to manage and help support. Because everyone on your team I'm sure if you've managed teams probably has a different growth path in mind, not everyone has this the same end goal.
Deanna:
I've heard it being, being in HR. So many times people are leaving because my manager was promoted. They've been here for 10 years and that just seemed like the next logical step for them, even though they had never managed teams before, or didn't have the training in order to be ready to lead teams. So I think that's so common why people are disengaged at work. Why people leave. It's mainly, usually because of their managers. So I think investing in your leaders from the beginning and having that training is I think that's awesome to hear.
Stephanie:
And there's so many studies out there that show the top three reasons why people leave a company. Number one is their manager. Number two is lack of growth opportunities. And number three is a lack of community or a sense of community and belonging within an organization. So the number one thing is managers. Yet we still as organizations fail to develop the framework systems and tools that will help support and enhance the best leaders and the leadership best practices that are fit for an organization.
Because in some cases, organizations may value different things. And for us here at Button being able to provide specific and actionable feedback is something that is really important to us. So very early on, we train our managers on how to give and receive feedback so that they can continue to teach and practice with the people around them.
Kelly:
And I'm so excited because one of our upcoming topics that we will be talking about on this podcast is what makes a great manager. And so I think we've definitely laid the foundation for that upcoming conversation. And Stephanie, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. I have so many good things to take away. I think my favorite is reliving my drug testing days that definitely, and just reminiscing about the grit that I've built up throughout the years was really fun for me, Deanna, what's your takeaway?
Deanna:
I really liked the whole generalist and specialist having the building the foundation as a generalist, but then specializing in certain areas I think is really important, especially for HR young professionals. I see that a little bit in myself and the role that I play right now. So I really like that she touched on that. So, like I said earlier, I'm so happy that you came on the podcast to be here with us. Thank you again, Stephanie.
Kelly:
Is there a mic drop you want to offer to our listeners?
Stephanie:
The only mic drop that I'll offer managers since you are on the topic is make sure to celebrate the wins during the week. Whether you're at a large company or a small company, or just getting started, you have 1,000,001 things going on, but one of the best things that you can do for your team is to take time and celebrate.
Kelly:
I love the mic drop Stephanie. So again, thank you so much for coming on listeners, please come back. Like I said, we'll have some great topics coming up. One being your favorite manager. And we look forward to hearing from you about your managers and your bosses out on our LinkedIn page. Until next time. Thanks so much for coming out.
Deanna:
See you.