Callie talks to Lorena about asking for the type of experience you want to gain. Being upfront about your professional goals, knowing when an organization is a good fit or not and negotiating.
Callie talks to Lorena about asking for the type of experience you want to gain. Being upfront about your professional goals, knowing when an organization is a good fit or not and negotiating.
Callie:
Hey everybody. I am Callie and I am back with another episode of Honest HR, a podcast from SHRM, where we are continuing to get real with HR professionals. This is a podcast where we have honest conversations and we talk about things that our listeners are curious about or interested in discussing. We know that some of our conversations aren't for everyone. So we appreciate you being here. We appreciate you enjoying what we have today on the docket. If you're not enjoying today, make sure you come back for a future episode where we may be talking about something you're interested in. So I should say that I am doing this episode on my own today as Deanna will not be joining. She is unable to join for our conversation today. So I am here alone with our guest who I'll get to in a second, but I am excited about today's episode.
Again, we've heard, and we've listened to your feedback in your comments and your conversations on our LinkedIn page. That's where today's topic came from. Lorena and I will be discussing how YPs can climb the ladder, so to speak, and that ladder may look different for everybody. The ladder may not be an actual move, right? It may actually just be some development opportunities and things like that. So, that's what we'll be discussing today. First, I want to talk a little bit about Lorena. So Lorena and I actually met in person at SHRM Annual this year. We were introduced by a SHRM YPAC member, Amanda. She was aware of the Honest HR initiative, and she said that Lorena would be a good individual to talk to. So I tasked Lorena with coming up with a topic and coincidentally, we had a conversation posted by one of our members on our LinkedIn group that paired with Lorena's suggestion perfectly.
So I'm going to get into our topic in a moment, but I want to talk again a little bit about Lorena. So Lorena is a SHRM CP. She recently graduated from University of Puerto Rico with a bachelor's degree in business administration, with a major in HR, and a minor in corporate communication. She is fluent, I'm assuming ,in English and Spanish, because her minor in corporate communication was in both languages, which is awesome. She pursued her master's degree in health services administration at Rollins College, and is currently working as HR coordinator in a medical facility in the greater Orlando area.
As I mentioned, she became SHRM certified CP in May 2018. So we're really excited for her there. I hope she's working towards her re-certification credits. She's been involved with SHRM since 2011. First as part of her student chapter and now as part of greater Orlando SHRM. So her passion for professional development and helping people, keeps her involved in SHRM and other organizations whose mission is to help people and give back into the workforce. Lorena, tell us a little bit about yourself, add a little bit to your bio. Where you came from, what you're excited about and why you agreed to be in today's episode.
Lorena:
So I think you said it all with the bio when it comes to my credentials and whatnot. I originally was not aiming to study HR at all. I was actually interested in operations and strategic management. Wen I was in my sophomore year of college, I took the basic class for operations management. At the same time I was taking the HR core class. I realized that I did not like anything about operations and strategic when it came to workflow and all these processes. I did like the strategic part when it came to people. So since I was already taking that basic HR class that I took as a random elective, I decided to pursue it as my major, which got me passionate about the people portion of the business aspects.
Even before that, my mom's a nutritionist, my dad's a pharmacist, healthcare was always something I always considered. That's how I transitioned my HR to the healthcare environment and decided to pursue my masters in that. Originally from Puerto Rico, I was born in the mainland, in Texas, but I lived most of my life in Puerto Rico. My family's Puerto Rican. So that's why I also wanted to do my minor in communications in English and Spanish. I know there is a lot of Spanish speaking professionals in the United States. I wanted to use that as an option whenever I transitioned into Florida which is where I live now.
Callie:
Awesome. I will say that there are a lot of job postings that I've seen that ask for Spanish speaking individuals. So that's a really, really great opportunity for you to have as you practice HR and going forward. So I give you props for that. That's something that's on my bucket list is learning a second language. I again, give you props and I'm a little bit jealous. So I appreciate you sharing your path down why you decided to be a dual language individual. So appreciate that. What we're going to do now is actually jump into our topic. I mentioned, I sort of teased it a little bit with our listeners already, but today's topic is really about YPs and the presumed climbing of the ladder. We've been having a lot of conversations, at a lot of different levels, both in my current role and in previous roles about YPs. The perception is that YPs want to be promoted within six months of being at their organization. That they are always looking for that next best thing, next best role, next best title, that sort of thing.
So what we're going to try and do today is get to the bottom of that because I straight up don't necessarily agree with that perception. So the other reason that we came up with this is because there is a LinkedIn chat out on our LinkedIn group that sort of alludes to this. I'll get to that in a little bit when we talk about a future question. So essentially my first question, and Lorena, I want you to weigh in on this. I feel like the perception really lies in maybe a lack of communication. So although a lot of people assume YPs just want to be promoted and just want that next job title. I think it lies in a lack of communication. So we've talked on previous episodes about the necessity of having a good relationship with your manager. So my question is, how important is it to have an open and honest communication with your manager, or your manager's managers about expectations and job responsibilities?
Lorena:
I honestly think the most important part of any job is to have that open communication. We always hear about us being transparent, and us telling our employers or our bosses, our supervisors, what do we want to do and what we expect from this job. Sometimes we are fed this information from the other side and they might not necessarily agree with what we are saying. Sometimes they hire you out of necessity, they are really desperate. They think you're a great candidate, but maybe the growth is not going to go as quickly or however you want it to be. I think that communication part is usually the main issue when it comes to growing within your position. So for example, I used to work in a place where they had promised me within a six months you're going to be trained and you'll be able to do more of the employee relations portion. After that, we want you to work in our recruitment project.
I was really interested in this position back then. It was going to expose me to all of HR, not necessarily promotions, but I was going to see a little bit of everything. Then it turns out to be a job where I was mostly onboarding for a great part. Which is the reason why I ended up changing my jobs later on. It's because sometimes we let our bosses or our potential bosses know what we want, and they just want to feed you what you want to hear. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going to go along with it. Let's put it that way.
Callie:
I've run into this issue too. There's a joke out there or a comic out there that says, your first day it's onboarding day and it looks like heaven. Then day two, is depicted looking a lot warmer than heaven. So it's almost like during the interview process and during onboarding, of course, they're going to tell you what you want to hear. Then as soon as you get into the role, it's your job as the employee to make sure that you are being clear with your manager about the expectations that you had. Why you have those expectations, and what you want out of the role that you agreed to take on. I guess the other thing that I've sort of recognized is that, it's really hard for YPs and honestly any employee in general, to raise their hand and say, "I don't feel comfortable doing this."
So it could be too that in these honest conversations that you're having with your manager about your expectations and their expectations, it could be that they're painting this beautiful picture, but you aren't comfortable with that picture just yet. So during that conversation, and during the honesty portion of your conversation with your manager, you have to be comfortable as a YP in saying, "I don't think I'm ready just yet, but I think I can get there."
So I just want to make that comment to our listeners, to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. You have to be uncomfortable and say, "I'm uncomfortable and I don't think that I can deliver what you want me to deliver." Sometimes that means you're not right for the role. Then you can mutually depart and hopefully not burn any bridges. Sometimes when you're having these honest conversations and they see you going in one direction, you have to be comfortable in saying, "That direction, doesn't jive with where I'm at in my career. Frankly, I just don't see myself going there." So I just want to make that comment too that, the honest conversations isn't just for the positive conversations. It's also for those sort of negative conversations where you may or may not be the right individual for that role.
Lorena:
Yes. I totally agree. Sometimes when it comes to having that negative conversation, it doesn't necessarily mean... Sometimes you will part ways and you will end up realizing this is not the place for you or the company for you. Sometimes having those conversations, your boss or your supervisor might realize, "Hey, maybe this is not the project you should be in, maybe you work with this department." Sometimes that's how people get their jobs. They go into one department because, "Maybe HR wasn't what I wanted but I really am interested in people relations." When I mean, people relations, I mean more like the communications, the customer part of it. Or I'm more into marketing because that sometimes happens. You go into school or you go into a career thinking, "This is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life." You start there day one, and you realize this is not what you want to do. Sometimes having those conversations can actually open doors within the same company.
Callie:
That's a great point that I didn't even think of. If you're having that conversation and you say, "I'm in an HR generalist role, but I'm really passionate about the benefits and the compensation." Instead of leaving, because you don't think you're the right person for that role, it could open a door over in benefits and compensation, and you're able to stay at your current organization. So, that's a great point, I appreciate you sharing that.
The next question that I want to pose to you comes directly out of our LinkedIn conversation. So there was an individual out in the LinkedIn conversation that said that a lot of YPs don't necessarily want promotions. They want learning opportunities or development opportunities. A lot of times, if YPs don't see a structure around the learning opportunities within an organization, which frankly not a lot of organizations have, although they're working towards it. They could leave because they don't see, like I said, that structure around the learning or the development that they're looking for. So what should a YP do if they find themselves in an organization that doesn't have that structured learning opportunities? What tips do you have for a YP that finds themselves in a situation like that?
Lorena:
For me, I'm currently in a very similar situation. For me, I created the structure myself. I have a job and I am an HR coordinator, and I do a lot of HR functions. I also know since I don't have an actual manager who's in HR, it's a one person HR department, I'm really not seeking for a promotion per se. I just really want to grow within the position. What I do personally, is I create my own structure. By that I mean, I set the goals I want to meet in this point of my career while I work at this place. That's not only HR functions, I'm actually learning functions from other departments.
With that, for example, I am helping the call center manager. I'm helping her manage employees. She usually works Mondays to Thursday. So on Friday, there's not an actual supervisor there on duty, making sure that the numbers are being made, and when it comes to calling patients and whatnot. I talked to my boss and I told her, "You know what, I know I'm not technically a manager, but I want to have management duties in a way, because I aspire to be an HR manager in the future." It's not going to be in that company because there's no position for it, but I want to start managing employees. I told her, "I want on Fridays to be sort of in charge of the call center." So I learned the call center functions. I learned management functions. I'm going into meetings, even meetings that don't directly relate to HR. I sit down in those meetings. So my advice is always to create your goals and make those goals work with the situation you have.
It doesn't even have to be in a professional job. Sometimes you're stuck in a store job because you can't just find that perfect job for you. I worked in a retail store for two years, before I even started working in the healthcare facility I work at now. What I did was that I told my boss, "Hey, I am going to school for healthcare admin, but I went to school for HR." "What can I do that's HR related?" He told me, "You know what, I need people to train our new employees." So I got into training. So it's basically within your situation, find out what you can do to grow yourself.
Callie:
I like that a lot. I've done the same thing. If you're in an organization and for me, it was more about being in a small organization. In small organizations, they typically don't have the funding for a formal training department or a formal training program. So in smaller organizations, it's important to sort of identify the individuals within the company that can invite you into their realm. So if you want to know about marketing, as it relates to the HR function, you have to make sure that you're raising your hand in appropriate meetings and appropriate times to say, "I'd also like to be in on conversations that involve marketing." Or whatever your interest level is because development and learning, isn't always in a structured situation. It sometimes comes from organic projects that you're put on, or conversations that come up about a quick project that came up and you need to work with somebody to get it out quickly.
So it doesn't necessarily have to be in a structured situation. It can certainly be in that more organic way of seeking out additional developmental opportunities or learning situations. I really like that. Other question I want to touch on is, when employers recognize when employees are getting ready to leave, or if they've expressed that they want to attend a specific training symposium and the company doesn't have the funds. They're sensing that the employee is ready to leave, what sort of incentives can employers offer to keep them there?
Lorena:
When it comes to sensing, if they're going to leave or whatnot, employers need to realize what they can and cannot offer. Sometimes they'll go with the false promises again. They'll want to paint you a picture and they'll say, "You know what, if you stay with us within a year, we're going to be at this point, and you're going to make this amount of money, and you're going to have these benefits." Sometimes that's not possible. I think it's to be a little bit more realistic. It's sit down and have that conversation. So for example, if they can't pay for a certain benefit you really want... For me, I would really love one day is to have a job that actually pays for me to go to a conference, instead of having to do it myself.
I can sit down with my boss, I told her this. She's like, "Well, I can't give you that, but I can offer you more PTO." You know what, that has value to me because not only do I have this PTO that everyone else has, but now I can use extra days to go to the conference and not worried about not being paid. So I think it's more about sitting down and seeing what they can actually offer. If it's not something that's money wise, maybe they can't pay for extra PTO because they can't do that. What opportunities they can help you with. Maybe a smaller conference or maybe a specific training for a job function you want to learn to do for the organization. Something that adds value to the organization, but also adds value to the employee.
Callie:
I completely agree. I give you and your boss some credit there for coming to an agreement on some additional PTO. I don't think I've ever actually sat down and said, "I'd like to do this." And they said, "No." But they gave me something else. So your power of negotiation must be pretty high, Lorena. So I appreciate you sharing that story. Last question, and I think this sort of goes back to the comment that you just made. When should a YP accept... When should an employee, because this can happen at any level, accept that it's time to move on? What should they look for when they're looking for a new job?
Lorena:
So I think that the best moment for an YP, or an employee in general, to realize, "Hey, this is not for me anymore." It's when neither the organization or the employee are gaining anything from each other. I say the organization too, because sometimes you've been in a job or you've been in an organization for so long doing the same thing, that really you're just going day-to-day. Doing the same thing every single day. These are my responsibilities and there's no longer any passion for this job or I'm bored. I've already done everything I can do for you. So I think once you realize that you're just going by and doing things because you have to, not because you want to. That's the first warning of you've already done what you could for that organization.
Now, when you're looking for a new job, you want to look for a job that makes you passionate. If you're into going into an organization that has job opportunities, that's what you should be doing. By job opportunities, I mean is maybe if you're more into the promotion side of it. Some people want to get promoted and we need to accept that that's what they want to do. They want to have those promotions and titles are important to them. They need to go maybe to a larger company that has a lot of growth opportunity and look for that. If they're looking for a job, maybe the title's not the most important thing, but they want to keep on learning. They need to go to organizations that can offer them that learning.
Now, the employers don't need to see this as something that's necessarily negative. It is hard sometimes to fill a position and if you've been doing your job well, it's going to be hard for them to part ways with you. At the same time, they should see it as now we can recruit someone new and a new person means new ideas. So it goes both ways.
Callie:
I think for me, passion, I heard passion quite a bit in your response and it triggered another word for me and it's, curiosity. If you are in a role and you are no longer curious about what you can learn, or what you are able to get out of the role or out of the organization that you're at, that's a dead giveaway that it's time for you to part ways. Frankly, if the organization is no longer curious about where you want to go in your career, the organization is no longer investing in you as an employee.
So I think, passion, curiosity, those are two big things that you should be looking for when you're trying to decide if your current role has sort of run its course. So I completely agree with what you said. I hope that passion is still in everybody's role within their company. I can't imagine going to work and not having a passion for what I do. I just feel like that would be the worst day ever. So we like to end all of our episodes with sort of mic drops or ending on a happy note. So for our listeners that sort of sat with us through this episode, Lorena, if somebody's in a situation that they want to get out of, or if they're in a situation they're really pumped about, but want to know how to have that conversation with their manager about getting to that next level, what advice would you give to them?
Lorena:
For me, timing is essential. If you know certain things that your supervisor does that kind of lets you know, that they're not in a good mood. Or they're very stressed out, or they're worried about something else, whether it's personal or part of the organization, don't choose that bad time. I think timing is one thing that's very, very important and it can make or break a negotiation. Second, don't be afraid to ask. The worst thing they can tell you is, "No, we can't do that." Nobody has ever died from that. Or I've never heard of a death from a, "No."
Once they tell you, if they do tell you no, what you need to do is "Okay, then what can you do for me?" "Where can we meet?" In my case, we met with the extra PTO time. That worked out great because although it is still expensive for me to go to these conferences, at least I know, "Hey, I'm getting a paycheck." So this is paying itself off in a way and that's how we met. Maybe it's not extra PTO, maybe they'll do a per diem thing where they'll pay for meals. Or they'll help you pay for part of the conference, if it's the conference that you want, maybe it's not that. Using that as an example, maybe they'll pay for part of that, or asking for what you want. Don't ask for less than what you want. Ask for what you want and make sure they understand what you want. If they can't give that to you and it's okay, because they don't really have to, try to see if there's a midpoint where you guys can meet. That way you can both be happy.
Callie:
I liked your last comment about ask for what you want. Don't inflate what you're looking for. If you inflate what you're looking for, the chances of you guys meeting in the middle, you sort of have put them back on their heels. So don't, don't necessarily shoot for the moon, and the sun, and all of the other planets in the universe. Just identify what you're looking for and what would benefit you and what you really want out of that negotiation. So I really like that comment. My biggest piece of advice for individuals who are early in their career, and what we identify as young professionals or emerging professionals in HR, or really any career is, don't second guess your value and your worth. I know that sometimes we feel silly or stupid going and asking questions about a task or a project or something like that.
It's so important for you to recognize the value that you bring to your organization, because your organization also recognizes your value. It's just about how you are dictating the value and the organization is dictating your value as well. So if you're not whistling the same tune, it could often be mismatched. Where you feel like you're adding value somewhere, but your organization sees you adding value somewhere else, or it doesn't see you adding value at all. So for me, it's just remembering that you are adding value and that you do have some sort of weight to carry with you when you do go into these conversations and these negotiations. You're important, you're valued. It's important that you know that and can actually bring that forward in a conversation about what you're looking for or what you want. So that's my mic dropper, my comment. Lorena, before I let you go, where can our listeners reach out and connect with you if they want to continue the conversation?
Lorena:
So you can connect with me through LinkedIn. Hopefully once the podcast comes out you'll know how to spell my first and last name. If not, then through Twitter, which is, L-P-A-B-O-N-H-R, those two. I'm very active in Twitter. I go into LinkedIn almost every day. So yeah, that's the best way to connect with me.
Callie:
Wonderful. You can always reach out to me as well on LinkedIn, Callie Zipple, Twitter, SHRM Callie Z, and make sure that you're following our podcast. Subscribe either on iTunes or Spotify or really anywhere you can find podcasts. Make sure you're also visiting shrm.org/honesthr. You'll be able to find all of the information about next episodes and upcoming guests and all of that information there. Don't forget that we want to hear from you. So if you have suggestions for topics or suggestions for guests, reach out and I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks so much for joining and we'll see you next time.